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WASAPI plug-in version 3.0 beta [closed], Discussion & feedback
Moofasa~
post May 18 2012, 20:22
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QUOTE (Case @ May 18 2012, 10:22) *
The component is for exclusive mode only. There is no benefit to develop shared mode component, the output would not be any more direct than with directsound. And latency is irrelevant in an audio player.


Another question, does mixing always happen with DirectSound/WASAPI (shared mode) even if only one audio stream is active? Basically my ideal scenario would be use exclusive mode (no mixing) only when foobar is the sole active audio stream, but use shared mode if there are multiple audio streams active. Is this scenario feasible (it seems unlikely)? Perhaps on song change foobar could check to see if the device was in use or not?
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Case
post May 18 2012, 21:38
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QUOTE (Jackal29a @ May 18 2012, 19:39) *
Forget the specs of both cards Case, they were written according to the original drivers and have not been updated to show current capabilities. The Xonar ST has been accepting those sampling rates for over 2 years, same for my other D2X Xonar. The same happens with the Musiland specs, the USB receiver chip will accept 32bit from driver V. 2.2.xxxx onwards though the DAC IC is a 24bit TI PCM1793 so the last 8 bits will be truncated at some point.

For the component the sampling rate is irrelevant. It just opens the device with requested specs and handles errors if they are returned. Do you see those non-working rates listed in Default Format dropdown of the Xonar's output properties?
As for the 32-bit data, foobar uses float for that. I assume your card thinks it can handle it but chokes on it. I simply get error explaining that the format is not supported. Anyway, you shouldn't be bothered by that when it offers no benefits over the 24-bit format.
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Jackal29a
post May 18 2012, 22:52
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QUOTE (Case @ May 18 2012, 22:38) *
For the component the sampling rate is irrelevant. It just opens the device with requested specs and handles errors if they are returned. Do you see those non-working rates listed in Default Format dropdown of the Xonar's output properties?
As for the 32-bit data, foobar uses float for that. I assume your card thinks it can handle it but chokes on it. I simply get error explaining that the format is not supported. Anyway, you shouldn't be bothered by that when it offers no benefits over the 24-bit format.


Nope, those rates are not reported by the dropdown properties but work fine with the ASIO plugin (2.1.1 and 1.2.7) so the card's hardware handles them just fine, the software/drivers could be a different story though maybe they can't handle those rates with WASAPI.

As to the 32bit thing, I agree there is nothing to be gained by using it and I'm noth bothered at all, I was just curious why it works with the other player and not with the plugin, in fact, in this case 44.1/32 is even reported by the dropdown properties.
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Mr.Grey
post May 19 2012, 07:12
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QUOTE (Moofasa~ @ May 18 2012, 21:22) *
Another question, does mixing always happen with DirectSound/WASAPI (shared mode) even if only one audio stream is active? Basically my ideal scenario would be use exclusive mode (no mixing) only when foobar is the sole active audio stream, but use shared mode if there are multiple audio streams active.

Earlier, I described a situation with LynxTWO card - work foobar2000 in exclusive mode with others audio streams in shared mode.
maybe it depends on the hardware
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Mr.Grey
post May 19 2012, 07:17
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QUOTE (Jackal29a @ May 18 2012, 23:52) *
Nope, those rates are not reported by the dropdown properties but work fine with the ASIO plugin (2.1.1 and 1.2.7) so the card's hardware handles them just fine, the software/drivers could be a different story though maybe they can't handle those rates with WASAPI.

Exactly the same story with Xonar D1
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Case
post May 19 2012, 09:51
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Jackal29a, do you have Media Center DSPs configured like this?
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jcooper138
post May 20 2012, 00:00
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I also have the "Unrecoverable playback error: Unkonwn error (80070057)" issue. Creative X-Fi Titanium HD (not surprised).

Win7SP1 x64 Foobar 1.1.11
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Jackal29a
post May 20 2012, 10:14
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QUOTE (Case @ May 19 2012, 10:51) *
Jackal29a, do you have Media Center DSPs configured like this?


I do when I play PCM files but have to limit both sample rate and bit depth when I play DSD because it is decoded at 64/352.8 and my soundcards don't accept that format. When playing DSD I set >192K to be downsampled to 88.2 and bit depth to 24 or 32 depending on soundcard.
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bsw11
post May 20 2012, 21:55
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While this version does fix the double click issue moving between flac and mp3 files, it has caused the player to just hang - at first at the end of a track and now even while playing a track. I switched to DS and the player is fine.

If you need me to get you some debug, let me know the steps I need to setup the log output as the console currently does not show any error.

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SoNic67
post May 20 2012, 22:20
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The above soundcards that"support" 32 bit PCM are doing that via driver downsample. The hardware (DAC chip) that is present on those cards - Cirrus Logic CS4398 for front and Cirrus Logic CS4362 for rest - cannot accept 32 bit PCM. And none of the DAC's on market can accept 32 bit float.

IMO keep it at 24 bit to get the best quality.

This post has been edited by SoNic67: May 20 2012, 22:23
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db1989
post May 20 2012, 22:58
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QUOTE (Case @ May 19 2012, 10:51) *
Jackal29a, do you have Media Center DSPs configured like this?
From said image:
“Sound can be output in any format. For example, you can listen to an audio CD in 5.1 surround at 32-bit / 192 kHz.”
What could possibly be the use of this? I’ll entertain the possible exception of pseudo-surround generated by a DSP; but I cannot think of any reason to upsample CDDA to such ridiculously high levels (even mentioning the possibility is silly enough).

QUOTE (Jackal29a @ May 20 2012, 10:14) *
I do when I play PCM files but have to limit both sample rate and bit depth when I play DSD because it is decoded at 64/352.8 and my soundcards don't accept that format.
What do you use to decode DSD? I wasn’t aware that the main decoders offered output at such high settings.
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Jackal29a
post May 21 2012, 00:00
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QUOTE (db1989 @ May 20 2012, 23:58) *
QUOTE (Case @ May 19 2012, 10:51) *
Jackal29a, do you have Media Center DSPs configured like this?
From said image:
“Sound can be output in any format. For example, you can listen to an audio CD in 5.1 surround at 32-bit / 192 kHz.”
What could possibly be the use of this? I’ll entertain the possible exception of pseudo-surround generated by a DSP; but I cannot think of any reason to upsample CDDA to such ridiculously high levels (even mentioning the possibility is silly enough).


The configuration Case posted in the pic assures that the decoded signal is sent "as is" to the the output without any further processing. I never use upsampling so I can't answer the 5.1@32/192 question.


QUOTE (db1989 @ May 20 2012, 23:58) *
QUOTE (Jackal29a @ May 20 2012, 10:14) *
I do when I play PCM files but have to limit both sample rate and bit depth when I play DSD because it is decoded at 64/352.8 and my soundcards don't accept that format.
What do you use to decode DSD? I wasn’t aware that the main decoders offered output at such high settings.



J River converts DSD (2.8224MHz/1bit) to 64/352.8 PCM by default when not bitsreaming to a DSD capable DAC, nothing done or selected by the user, that is JRiver's standard DSD->PCMconversion.





As no DAC I know of can handle such output, downsampling and/or truncating are necessary. There a few recent DACs that can take 32/352.8 or 32/384 PCM from DXD files but none I know of can deal with 64bit dignals.
In the pic output is configured to downsample anything hogher than 192K to 88.2 (1/4th in this case) and bitdepth truncated to the Xonar's maximum ASIO accepted value (32bits ).
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Enig123
post May 21 2012, 01:19
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QUOTE (Erich_2 @ May 18 2012, 03:52) *
QUOTE (pyr0rrzzz @ May 17 2012, 20:02) *
Actually, now I noticed that there are lots of artifacts in the form of "crackling", it sounds like an old broken speaker.

Here too. Terrible crackling.
Win7 32Bit, Foobar2000 1.1.11, M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496 (driver V. 6.0.8)


The same situation here, just like old broken speakers.
Windows Server 2008, foobar2000 1.1.12 beta 5, Conexant 20585 SmartAudio HD.
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Enig123
post May 21 2012, 07:14
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Works fine without "crackling" in the first place with my external USB device which is a FiiO E7. After several minutes, it goes wrong with output with awful noises.

This post has been edited by Enig123: May 21 2012, 07:18
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Mr.Grey
post May 22 2012, 08:13
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QUOTE (Case @ May 18 2012, 17:26) *
It looks like J River does some signal processing (resampling) in its outputs. Your Xonar does not support the sample rates you mentioned (specs). And your Musiland does not support 32-bit output, 24-bits is max (specs).

Asus Xonar D1
http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards...#specifications
foobar2000 & foo_out_asio also work with the 32-bit output
although also not supported by the specification



This post has been edited by Mr.Grey: May 22 2012, 08:23
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Jackal29a
post May 22 2012, 09:43
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I think a configurable output bitdepth like the one in uLilith player could be useful for both the WASAPI and ASIO plugins:





I've also tested my my Xonar with uLilith and it works with 32bit integer in either WASAPI or ASIO but 32bit floating point is a no go, the Musiland 02 works with both in either output mode so there is something not quite right in 3.0b as I can't play 32bit with the Xonar (unsupported format message) nor with the Musiland (Foobar crashes).

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Peter
post May 22 2012, 18:40
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Topic split


--------------------
This job would be great if it wasn't for the users.
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sanaa
post May 23 2012, 20:15
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Tested with foobar 1.1.11 and Traktor Audio 2 soundcard and had the same crakling problem as described above.
Get back to the precious version which is great !! (except the delay in volume management).
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Moofasa~
post May 23 2012, 21:18
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QUOTE (Mr.Grey @ May 19 2012, 01:12) *
QUOTE (Moofasa~ @ May 18 2012, 21:22) *
Another question, does mixing always happen with DirectSound/WASAPI (shared mode) even if only one audio stream is active? Basically my ideal scenario would be use exclusive mode (no mixing) only when foobar is the sole active audio stream, but use shared mode if there are multiple audio streams active.

Earlier, I described a situation with LynxTWO card - work foobar2000 in exclusive mode with others audio streams in shared mode.
maybe it depends on the hardware



This doesn't make sense to me. If foobar is in exclusive mode, that'll be the only allowable audio stream (isn't that the purpose of exclusive mode? tongue.gif ). If "give exclusive mode applications priority" is unchecked and I try to play a song in foobar (with other audio streams active), foobar will throw an error "device in use" (which I assume is the outcome Peter expected). My question was is it possible for foobar to only engage exclusive mode if no other audio streams are active, otherwise use shared mode (I assume probably not, but it's worth a shot to ask).
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Mr.Grey
post May 23 2012, 22:21
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Moofasa~

I am surprised, but it works that way smile.gif
"give exclusive mode applications priority" checked
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SoNic67
post May 24 2012, 02:42
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QUOTE (Mr.Grey @ May 22 2012, 03:13) *
foobar2000 & foo_out_asio also work with the 32-bit output
although also not supported by the specification

There is absolutelly no use of setting 32 bit audio an the above cards. It is just a label in your software and probably worse audio quality:
QUOTE (SoNic67 @ May 20 2012, 17:20) *
The above soundcards that"support" 32 bit PCM are doing that via driver downsample. The hardware (DAC chip) that is present on those cards - Cirrus Logic CS4398 for front and Cirrus Logic CS4362 for rest - cannot accept 32 bit PCM. And none of the DAC's on market can accept 32 bit float.
IMO keep it at 24 bit to get the best quality.

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Mr.Grey
post May 24 2012, 11:04
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SoNic67
I agree with you smile.gif
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Peter
post May 24 2012, 16:47
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Beta 2 available, see the original post for details.

Due to the differences between beta 1 and beta 2, beta 1 is still available for download, as it may actually work better for some users; please report such cases so I can decide on which approach to take in the future versions.


--------------------
This job would be great if it wasn't for the users.
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Emre
post May 24 2012, 21:00
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QUOTE (Peter @ May 24 2012, 18:47) *
Beta 2 available, see the original post for details. Due to the differences between beta 1 and beta 2, beta 1 is still available for download, as it may actually work better for some users; please report such cases so I can decide on which approach to take in the future versions.

this one works. but sometimes sound stutters on 6ch 24bit 96khz samples.
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Jackal29a
post May 24 2012, 21:02
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QUOTE (Peter @ May 24 2012, 17:47) *
Beta 2 available, see the original post for details.

Due to the differences between beta 1 and beta 2, beta 1 is still available for download, as it may actually work better for some users; please report such cases so I can decide on which approach to take in the future versions.


Hi Peter, is the int/float negotiation in beta2 automatic? if so it doesn't work with neither my Xonar ST nor with the Musi 02US.
Will it possible to have 2 separate entries in the output bithdepth so it can be done manually?
Does Event driven work with 32bit Int.?

Cheers

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