Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons, [TOS #6: was “Future proof lossless audio/codec” in General Audio] |
Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons, [TOS #6: was “Future proof lossless audio/codec” in General Audio] |
Jun 23 2012, 18:03
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 432 Joined: 11-February 12 Member No.: 97076 |
I am trying to understand why is FLAC standardizing in the lossless world? Reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...chnical_details isn't True Audio more future proof? All these channels and huge range, isn't it the "best" option for the next "100 years"?
If one day everyone will start using FLAC, will there be a way to expand the number of channels available? For expample the "new new" 12.1 Surround System or whatever they will come up with. Just some thoughts, don't want to get anyone upset, I use FLAC and I love it. Thanks. This post has been edited by eahm: Jun 23 2012, 18:03 |
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Jun 25 2012, 16:38
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 3083 Joined: 1-September 05 From: SE Pennsylvania Member No.: 24233 |
I doubt that any lossless encoder would do well with 24 bits. Those 8 extra bits are essentially uncompressable, uncorrelated noise.
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Jun 25 2012, 17:31
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#3
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 1471 Joined: 30-November 06 Member No.: 38207 |
I doubt that any lossless encoder would do well with 24 bits. Those 8 extra bits are essentially uncompressable, uncorrelated noise. I did a test after applying a de-emphasis EQ filter and writing the output to 24-bits. (Which means, there wasn't noise in those 8 extra bits until the EQ moved the original noise in there, so I suppose that filling up with noise from the beginning, would not benefit the figures?) Then I took the FLAC file, reduced to 16 (without dithering) and measured the ratio. With FLAC -8, the 16 bits filesize was only 52.1% of the size of the 24-bit file. Those extra 8 bits were fairly expensive. I didn't compute the corresponding ratios for other codecs, but I converted the 24-bit file to other formats in order to see if there was any that would perform 'by eyeballing' unexpectedly better or worse. Nope: 7 761 846 272 bytes - flac -8 7 672 954 880 bytes - WavPack high, x5 7 629 369 344 bytes - Monkey's extrahigh 7 582 380 032 bytes - TAK -p4 7 533 199 360 bytes - ofr extranew The respective percentage improvements over flac -8: 1,1 % 1,7 % 2,3 % 2,9 % Probably a bit less than what one would expect for 16-bit files, which is natural from the hunch that the least-significant bits are more like white noise, which is incompressible regardless of codec and will push results towards equality. (Test corpus ... WTF did I really intend to write? Anyway, the filesizes are easy to read.) -------------------- geocities.com/hydrogenaudio: http://goo.gl/tqYZj
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eahm Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons Jun 23 2012, 18:03
saratoga If people wanted more channels they'd just upd... Jun 23 2012, 19:04
Debby747 I use and prefer WavPack for its features.
The re... Jun 23 2012, 19:26
lvqcl Why care about future? FLAC is lossless and DRM-fr... Jun 23 2012, 19:51
felix26591 I don't know about the channels, but flac is i... Jun 23 2012, 20:39
Kohlrabi QUOTE (felix26591 @ Jun 23 2012, 21:39) I... Jun 23 2012, 20:43
2012 QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 23 2012, 20:43) QUO... Jun 23 2012, 21:55
eahm QUOTE (Debby747 @ Jun 23 2012, 11:26) I u... Jun 23 2012, 20:48
skamp QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 21:48) In my o... Jun 23 2012, 21:07

IgorC QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 17:07) Techni... Jun 23 2012, 23:22

skamp QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%... Jun 24 2012, 08:53

Porcus @ Greynol: you don't seem to get the point. I ... Jun 24 2012, 10:57


greynol QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 02:57) @ Gre... Jun 24 2012, 17:28

Dario QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 22:07) Techni... Jun 24 2012, 16:36


greynol QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 08:36) The co... Jun 24 2012, 17:31


Porcus QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 18:31) QUOT... Jun 24 2012, 18:04

skamp QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%... Jun 25 2012, 09:31

skamp QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 25 2012, 10:31) Well, ... Jun 25 2012, 11:46
db1989 QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 20:48) QUOTE (... Jun 23 2012, 21:28
lvqcl IMO a codec that supports 4GHz samplerate is not b... Jun 23 2012, 21:08
Porcus If I were dictator and could order specifications ... Jun 23 2012, 21:50
db1989 QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 21:50) First... Jun 23 2012, 22:26
greynol QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 13:50) (AFAI... Jun 23 2012, 22:49

Porcus QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 23 2012, 23:49) QUOT... Jun 23 2012, 23:28
bryant QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 12:50) I hav... Jun 24 2012, 22:47
Porcus @ Bryant:
Thanks for enlightening.
And well ma... Jun 25 2012, 01:01
greynol MAC at it's weakest setting compresses better ... Jun 23 2012, 23:49
yourlord FLAC was early on the scene. Performance is good e... Jun 24 2012, 01:01
Takla Some other factors which imo made/make for widespr... Jun 24 2012, 01:13
eahm I am not talking about speed, compression, hardwar... Jun 24 2012, 01:54
Takla That's fine but most people, even music lovers... Jun 24 2012, 02:52
dumdidum QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 22:50) First... Jun 24 2012, 16:35
IgorC Those are old results (2006)
The last comparison ... Jun 24 2012, 18:21
Porcus QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:21) Those ... Jun 24 2012, 18:52
IgorC QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 14:52) That... Jun 24 2012, 18:57
greynol Thanks. I see 6% there, not 8% though.
Re: Old r... Jun 24 2012, 18:23
IgorC http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison...sion... Jun 24 2012, 18:29
greynol That doesn't change the fact that much has cha... Jun 24 2012, 18:54
Destroid I'm late to the discussion so I am starting wi... Jun 24 2012, 19:01
Porcus @ Destroid: a few good points, although I don... Jun 24 2012, 20:06
TBeck QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:29) http:/... Jun 24 2012, 19:19
IgorC QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 15:19) But it... Jun 24 2012, 19:53

greynol QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 11:53) FLAC/T... Jun 24 2012, 20:03
Porcus QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 20:19) many f... Jun 24 2012, 19:54
greynol Personally I only care how comparisons fare agains... Jun 24 2012, 19:51
Dario Well, I don’t know what kind of albums you g... Jun 24 2012, 20:21
IgorC QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) Well, ... Jun 24 2012, 20:25

Dario QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 21:25) QUOTE ... Jun 24 2012, 20:36
Porcus QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 21:21) Well, ... Jun 24 2012, 21:25

db1989 QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 20:21) I list... Jun 25 2012, 06:53
IgorC QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) I list... Jun 24 2012, 22:23
Destroid @Porcus Ah, is true. The average user sometimes is... Jun 24 2012, 20:36
IgorC I have encoded two sets of samples from two last p... Jun 24 2012, 21:49
TBeck QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 20:51) Pers... Jun 24 2012, 23:31
Dario Here’s a 30-second sample of the album I was talki... Jun 25 2012, 11:39
lvqcl Apparent lowpass at 13...14 kHz and other signs of... Jun 25 2012, 11:45
Dario QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 12:45) Appare... Jun 25 2012, 12:00
Porcus I am not surprised that a demo from a one-man-band... Jun 25 2012, 12:24
db1989 QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 12:24) (That... Jun 25 2012, 12:36
Porcus The Vàli upload has a peak of only 0.82, and is fr... Jun 25 2012, 11:52
lvqcl Half a year ago I took 7 albums from my music coll... Jun 25 2012, 13:19
JJZolx QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 06:19) Half a... Jun 25 2012, 16:55
smok3 as far as longevity goes, i'd use whatever app... Jun 25 2012, 13:26
TBeck QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 13:24) Earli... Jun 25 2012, 13:59
stephan_g QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 25 2012, 14:59) This i... Jun 25 2012, 16:10
benski QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 11:10) Ho... Jun 25 2012, 16:43
db1989 Does Josh ever still, or have any intention to eve... Jun 25 2012, 16:49
eahm QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 08:10) Ho... Jun 25 2012, 17:13
benski QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 12:13) QUOTE (... Jun 25 2012, 17:39
IgorC QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 13:13) Going b... Jun 25 2012, 18:32
db1989 Yes, quality has nothing to do with it. eahm seems... Jun 25 2012, 18:41
skamp QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 19:41) numer... Jun 25 2012, 18:50
eahm QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 10:41) Yes, ... Jun 25 2012, 18:47
IgorC QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:47) it... Jun 25 2012, 18:59
lvqcl TTA is more future-proof than FLAC, Itanium is mor... Jun 25 2012, 19:14
eahm QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 10:59) QUOTE ... Jun 25 2012, 19:15
saratoga QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:15) QUOTE (... Jun 25 2012, 19:35
JJZolx QUOTE (saratoga @ Jun 25 2012, 12:35) Hop... Jun 25 2012, 19:43
lvqcl QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 22:43) It wo... Jun 25 2012, 19:50
saratoga QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 14:43) QUOTE... Jun 25 2012, 19:58
IgorC It might be the case that the next step will be no... Jun 25 2012, 20:00
Porcus QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 21:00) It mig... Jun 25 2012, 20:06
benski QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 15:06) QUOTE... Jun 25 2012, 20:14
Porcus QUOTE (benski @ Jun 25 2012, 21:14) QUOTE... Jun 25 2012, 20:41
eahm QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 11:14) TTA is... Jun 25 2012, 20:23
hlloyge To return to the original question, I think EAC ha... Jun 25 2012, 22:41
Porcus QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jun 25 2012, 23:41) To r... Jun 25 2012, 23:23
greynol Nah, EAC has had (and still has) internal support ... Jun 25 2012, 23:20
saratoga QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 25 2012, 18:20) I am... Jun 25 2012, 23:42
lvqcl From 2009 ripping/encoding general poll: Jun 26 2012, 00:14
krafty I think FLAC is popular because it was on the inte... Jun 26 2012, 00:34
greynol QUOTE (krafty @ Jun 25 2012, 16:34) I thi... Jun 26 2012, 04:08
Destroid Which I guess brings the question of, "How ea... Jun 26 2012, 01:18
saratoga QUOTE (Destroid @ Jun 25 2012, 20:18) Whi... Jun 26 2012, 01:36
onkl FLAC has a nice sounding name. I believe one of th... Jun 26 2012, 04:32
Zarggg One could argue that "WMA" and "AAC... Jun 27 2012, 07:39
bandpass Onkl's point was that the names are nicer soun... Jun 27 2012, 08:36
Porcus So, what's in a name?
yalike, Offer my4ay? a... Jun 27 2012, 08:39![]() ![]() |
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