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Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons, [TOS #6: was “Future proof lossless audio/codec” in General Audio]
eahm
post Jun 23 2012, 18:03
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I am trying to understand why is FLAC standardizing in the lossless world? Reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...chnical_details isn't True Audio more future proof? All these channels and huge range, isn't it the "best" option for the next "100 years"?

If one day everyone will start using FLAC, will there be a way to expand the number of channels available? For expample the "new new" 12.1 Surround System or whatever they will come up with.

Just some thoughts, don't want to get anyone upset, I use FLAC and I love it.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by eahm: Jun 23 2012, 18:03
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Dario
post Jun 24 2012, 20:21
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Well, I don’t know what kind of albums you guys use to compare those compression ratios.

I listen mostly to neofolk, and the results I get are quite different than the ones you do. Here’s the compression for the album “Forlatt” by Vàli (if you’re into good acoustic music, you may want to check it out yourself):

reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917 with -8: 157.129.638 bytes
TAK 2.2.0 with -p4m: 128.642.073 bytes

do you know how much difference that is (tip: it’s over 20%)? If you don't believe me, I can upload the album so you can check it out yourself. I hope you wouldn’t mind.

This post has been edited by Dario: Jun 24 2012, 20:22
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Porcus
post Jun 24 2012, 21:25
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QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 21:21) *
Well, I don’t know what kind of albums you guys use to compare those compression ratios.


The tests linked to, disclose the test corpus. As they should.

Those figures of yours (wow ...) don't state uncompressed size. If you ripped from CD, then bitrate (per second) is probably a better figure to state, as the uncompressed is 1440. (If you didn't ... say, bought a 48 kHz file off Bandcamp, or something like that, then state uncompressed.)


For my own CD rips:
616 kb/s for those sorted by composer (classical/contemporary), and
925 kb/s for those sorted by performing artist (jazz/rock/metal ... mainly the latter) – that is 50% more music per time unit! cool.gif



Records, average over a physical CD (only counting CD rips):

252 for an Edith Piaf compilation which was auto-tagged as Voice of the Sparrow, disc 2 (those things show up with various titles, this was purchased as a single CD, I don't have disc 1 nor 3). Luckily it didn't show up any CD with a long silence in there.

1345 for Merzbow: Venereology. Listen to it and understand why. WavPack x6 improves it five percent to 1275 (just to compare, it compresses my only DTS CD to 1251).

This post has been edited by Porcus: Jun 24 2012, 22:01


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db1989
post Jun 25 2012, 06:53
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QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 20:21) *
I listen mostly to neofolk, and the results I get are quite different than the ones you do. Here’s the compression for the album “Forlatt” by Vàli […] do you know how much difference that is (tip: it’s over 20%)?
QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 21:25) *
Those figures of yours (wow ...) don't state uncompressed size. If you ripped from CD, then bitrate (per second) is probably a better figure to state, as the uncompressed is 1440.
1411 kbps, surely? wink.gif

But yeah, it would be good to have more information, such as uncompressed size/bitrate and a sample. On which note:
QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 20:21) *
If you don't believe me, I can upload the album so you can check it out yourself. I hope you wouldn’t mind.
Hydrogenaudio limits sharing of copyrighted material to samples for use in demonstration/identification, which can be a maximum of 30 seconds long, so please don’t link any full album or even song (at least not publicly).

This post has been edited by db1989: Jun 25 2012, 06:56
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Posts in this topic
- eahm   Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons   Jun 23 2012, 18:03
- - saratoga   If people wanted more channels they'd just upd...   Jun 23 2012, 19:04
- - Debby747   I use and prefer WavPack for its features. The re...   Jun 23 2012, 19:26
- - lvqcl   Why care about future? FLAC is lossless and DRM-fr...   Jun 23 2012, 19:51
- - felix26591   I don't know about the channels, but flac is i...   Jun 23 2012, 20:39
|- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (felix26591 @ Jun 23 2012, 21:39) I...   Jun 23 2012, 20:43
|- - 2012   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 23 2012, 20:43) QUO...   Jun 23 2012, 21:55
- - eahm   QUOTE (Debby747 @ Jun 23 2012, 11:26) I u...   Jun 23 2012, 20:48
|- - skamp   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 21:48) In my o...   Jun 23 2012, 21:07
||- - IgorC   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 17:07) Techni...   Jun 23 2012, 23:22
||- - skamp   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%...   Jun 24 2012, 08:53
||- - Porcus   @ Greynol: you don't seem to get the point. I ...   Jun 24 2012, 10:57
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 02:57) @ Gre...   Jun 24 2012, 17:28
||- - Dario   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 22:07) Techni...   Jun 24 2012, 16:36
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 08:36) The co...   Jun 24 2012, 17:31
|||- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 18:31) QUOT...   Jun 24 2012, 18:04
||- - skamp   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%...   Jun 25 2012, 09:31
||- - skamp   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 25 2012, 10:31) Well, ...   Jun 25 2012, 11:46
|- - db1989   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 20:48) QUOTE (...   Jun 23 2012, 21:28
- - lvqcl   IMO a codec that supports 4GHz samplerate is not b...   Jun 23 2012, 21:08
- - Porcus   If I were dictator and could order specifications ...   Jun 23 2012, 21:50
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 21:50) First...   Jun 23 2012, 22:26
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 13:50) (AFAI...   Jun 23 2012, 22:49
||- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 23 2012, 23:49) QUOT...   Jun 23 2012, 23:28
|- - bryant   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 12:50) I hav...   Jun 24 2012, 22:47
|- - Porcus   @ Bryant: Thanks for enlightening. And well ma...   Jun 25 2012, 01:01
- - greynol   MAC at it's weakest setting compresses better ...   Jun 23 2012, 23:49
- - yourlord   FLAC was early on the scene. Performance is good e...   Jun 24 2012, 01:01
- - Takla   Some other factors which imo made/make for widespr...   Jun 24 2012, 01:13
- - eahm   I am not talking about speed, compression, hardwar...   Jun 24 2012, 01:54
- - Takla   That's fine but most people, even music lovers...   Jun 24 2012, 02:52
- - dumdidum   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 22:50) First...   Jun 24 2012, 16:35
- - IgorC   Those are old results (2006) The last comparison ...   Jun 24 2012, 18:21
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:21) Those ...   Jun 24 2012, 18:52
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 14:52) That...   Jun 24 2012, 18:57
- - greynol   Thanks. I see 6% there, not 8% though. Re: Old r...   Jun 24 2012, 18:23
- - IgorC   http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison...sion...   Jun 24 2012, 18:29
- - greynol   That doesn't change the fact that much has cha...   Jun 24 2012, 18:54
- - Destroid   I'm late to the discussion so I am starting wi...   Jun 24 2012, 19:01
|- - Porcus   @ Destroid: a few good points, although I don...   Jun 24 2012, 20:06
- - TBeck   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:29) http:/...   Jun 24 2012, 19:19
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 15:19) But it...   Jun 24 2012, 19:53
||- - greynol   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 11:53) FLAC/T...   Jun 24 2012, 20:03
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 20:19) many f...   Jun 24 2012, 19:54
- - greynol   Personally I only care how comparisons fare agains...   Jun 24 2012, 19:51
- - Dario   Well, I don’t know what kind of albums you g...   Jun 24 2012, 20:21
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) Well, ...   Jun 24 2012, 20:25
||- - Dario   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 21:25) QUOTE ...   Jun 24 2012, 20:36
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 21:21) Well, ...   Jun 24 2012, 21:25
||- - db1989   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 20:21) I list...   Jun 25 2012, 06:53
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) I list...   Jun 24 2012, 22:23
- - Destroid   @Porcus Ah, is true. The average user sometimes is...   Jun 24 2012, 20:36
- - IgorC   I have encoded two sets of samples from two last p...   Jun 24 2012, 21:49
- - TBeck   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 20:51) Pers...   Jun 24 2012, 23:31
- - Dario   Here’s a 30-second sample of the album I was talki...   Jun 25 2012, 11:39
- - lvqcl   Apparent lowpass at 13...14 kHz and other signs of...   Jun 25 2012, 11:45
|- - Dario   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 12:45) Appare...   Jun 25 2012, 12:00
|- - Porcus   I am not surprised that a demo from a one-man-band...   Jun 25 2012, 12:24
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 12:24) (That...   Jun 25 2012, 12:36
- - Porcus   The Vàli upload has a peak of only 0.82, and is fr...   Jun 25 2012, 11:52
- - lvqcl   Half a year ago I took 7 albums from my music coll...   Jun 25 2012, 13:19
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 06:19) Half a...   Jun 25 2012, 16:55
- - smok3   as far as longevity goes, i'd use whatever app...   Jun 25 2012, 13:26
- - TBeck   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 13:24) Earli...   Jun 25 2012, 13:59
|- - stephan_g   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 25 2012, 14:59) This i...   Jun 25 2012, 16:10
|- - benski   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 11:10) Ho...   Jun 25 2012, 16:43
- - pdq   I doubt that any lossless encoder would do well wi...   Jun 25 2012, 16:38
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 25 2012, 17:38) I doubt ...   Jun 25 2012, 17:31
- - db1989   Does Josh ever still, or have any intention to eve...   Jun 25 2012, 16:49
- - eahm   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 08:10) Ho...   Jun 25 2012, 17:13
|- - benski   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 12:13) QUOTE (...   Jun 25 2012, 17:39
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 13:13) Going b...   Jun 25 2012, 18:32
- - db1989   Yes, quality has nothing to do with it. eahm seems...   Jun 25 2012, 18:41
|- - skamp   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 19:41) numer...   Jun 25 2012, 18:50
- - eahm   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 10:41) Yes, ...   Jun 25 2012, 18:47
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:47) it...   Jun 25 2012, 18:59
- - lvqcl   TTA is more future-proof than FLAC, Itanium is mor...   Jun 25 2012, 19:14
- - eahm   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 10:59) QUOTE ...   Jun 25 2012, 19:15
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:15) QUOTE (...   Jun 25 2012, 19:35
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jun 25 2012, 12:35) Hop...   Jun 25 2012, 19:43
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 22:43) It wo...   Jun 25 2012, 19:50
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 14:43) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 19:58
- - IgorC   It might be the case that the next step will be no...   Jun 25 2012, 20:00
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 21:00) It mig...   Jun 25 2012, 20:06
|- - benski   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 15:06) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 20:14
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (benski @ Jun 25 2012, 21:14) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 20:41
- - eahm   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 11:14) TTA is...   Jun 25 2012, 20:23
- - hlloyge   To return to the original question, I think EAC ha...   Jun 25 2012, 22:41
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jun 25 2012, 23:41) To r...   Jun 25 2012, 23:23
- - greynol   Nah, EAC has had (and still has) internal support ...   Jun 25 2012, 23:20
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 25 2012, 18:20) I am...   Jun 25 2012, 23:42
- - lvqcl   From 2009 ripping/encoding general poll:   Jun 26 2012, 00:14
- - krafty   I think FLAC is popular because it was on the inte...   Jun 26 2012, 00:34
|- - greynol   QUOTE (krafty @ Jun 25 2012, 16:34) I thi...   Jun 26 2012, 04:08
- - Destroid   Which I guess brings the question of, "How ea...   Jun 26 2012, 01:18
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Destroid @ Jun 25 2012, 20:18) Whi...   Jun 26 2012, 01:36
- - onkl   FLAC has a nice sounding name. I believe one of th...   Jun 26 2012, 04:32
- - Zarggg   One could argue that "WMA" and "AAC...   Jun 27 2012, 07:39
|- - bandpass   Onkl's point was that the names are nicer soun...   Jun 27 2012, 08:36
- - Porcus   So, what's in a name? yalike, Offer my4ay? a...   Jun 27 2012, 08:39
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