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Test your soundcard for clipping, with this sample
Mono
post Dec 6 2004, 09:41
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Anyone know why I get the ambulance/alien/screech when playing udial immediately after a different sound file?

If I play udial immediately after opening fb2k or after playing the file again then I hear no audible distortion, just the dial tones. However I do hear the distortion if I play udial after playing a different sound file, or after playing udial when it sounded distorted. This is without changing settings of any kind. Upon looking at the fb2k console, the distortion seems to occur after fb2k closes a stream and creates a new one.

Pertinent specs:
foobar2000 0.8.3
no DSPs enabled
DirectSound 2.0 with hardware mixing
SB Audigy 2 Platinum eX
CODE
INFO (CORE) : startup time: 250 ms
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\udial.flac" (0)
INFO (foo_out_dsound_ex) : Created stream: 44100Hz 24bps 2ch
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\sine002-1-philemon-war_is_peace.mp3" (0)
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\udial.flac" (0)
INFO (foo_out_dsound_ex) : Created stream: 44100Hz 24bps 2ch

In that instance, fb2k was opened, played udial (no distortions were heard), played another file, and then played udial again (this time, there were distortions).
CODE
INFO (CORE) : startup time: 219 ms
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\udial.flac" (0)
INFO (foo_out_dsound_ex) : Created stream: 44100Hz 24bps 2ch
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\udial.flac" (0)
INFO (CORE) : opening file for playback :
INFO (CORE) : location: "file://D:\udial.flac" (0)

In this instance udial is played repeatedly without distortions.

So, what's the verdict?


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matth6546
post Dec 7 2004, 19:16
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i play the file without hearing anything other than the dialing phone. so i guess my set up is good. i played it in foobar without any audio settings or anything. i then applied replaygain and played it again. the dialing was louder and the second half of the file was weird static or something.
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Compact Dick
post Feb 15 2005, 07:51
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Tested with E-mu 0404 using foobar2000 at 44100 Hz, and with the PPHS resampler at 48000, 96000 & 192000 Hz. No sirens or aliens, all equipment still working.

This post has been edited by Compact Dick: Feb 15 2005, 08:47
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SamK
post Feb 20 2005, 12:21
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Tested on my rio Karma (as a flac file) : no siren.

Not even when I set the karma's EQ at +10dB .. And this is strange, as it's quite clear a few dB is enough for the clipping to be very strongly audible.

What is the karma doing ? soft-limiting after the EQ ? That would mean the karma does EQ on numbers longer than 16 bits (can an ARM proc do that ?).

Oh my sweet, sweet, karma !
smile.gif


My SbLive! plays this sample very well too.
With or without SSRC to 48kHz, I get no siren (unless I add a +1dB gain, or set the front Wave setting in any of the highest positions - they're all marked as being +x by the Kx Mixer anyway, so it's pretty obvious those 5 highest settings do digital scaling and can cause clipping, even if the master setting is at 20%..).
I don't know if this good behaviour is due to my using the Kx driver, being clever about the mixer setting, or using trustful WaveOut instead of DirectSound.

As a side note : to test resampling artifacts, I find it more adequate to use a plain sine wave (19.5 kHz shows the sBlive! resampling artifacts *very* audibly).

On this file, no resampling artifact audible (and I wouldnt turn the volume up to see if there's any low leveled artifact noise, that doesnt make any sense. If the resampling artifacts are *that* low, that means the resampling was good enough on this sample, period.)
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SamK
post Feb 20 2005, 12:33
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QUOTE (Mono @ Dec 6 2004, 09:41 AM)
Anyone know why I get the ambulance/alien/screech when playing udial immediately after a different sound file?


didnt look the details, but it's most surely due to DirectSound.
It's designed to automagically choose audio settings adequate to what you play, and mix all the stuff you feed it.
Once your first file is done and you feed another one (without making a pause in the audio output), DirectSound can not reset the card's settings (that would make a slight pause), so it does whatever conversion required to play the new audio signal on the current card settings *in software* (or maybe uses features of the card to do them. It can do anything, as long as it doesnt introduce a pause in the output).

My knowledge of DirectSound doesnt go further than that. I could imagine DirectSound clients have ways to ask for reset of precise audio output parameters, and that foobar can use DirectSound in a better way than what I described.

But the scenario I described is , IMO, very probably what's happening.

This post has been edited by SamK: Feb 20 2005, 12:37
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MrEnergizer
post Feb 20 2005, 16:28
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Played with Foobar using M Audio Audiophile 2496
Plays dialling tones fine very slight humming halfway through sample but I can live with that wink.gif
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zidanax
post May 22 2005, 08:44
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Tried this sample with my E-MU 0404. I don't get any "alien" sounds or other high-pitched noises. However, I get a quiet buzzing sound, which doesn't go away unless I downsample the audio to 32KHz or below. Is this normal?
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Defsac
post May 22 2005, 14:14
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On my Yamaha DS-XG card:
No DSP: Aliens, no humming
SSRC 48khz: no aliens, no humming
Stereo > Mono: high pitched aliens, no humming

This post has been edited by Defsac: May 22 2005, 14:17
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cyborg
post May 24 2005, 15:08
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I tested the "udial.ape" on foobar2000 0.8.3. My soundcard is VIA AC'97. I tried it first without resampler and there was distortions. When I adjusted the "Preamp" to -3 dB there was no distortions. Next I tested it with three resamplers: SSRC, PPHS and SRC (Secret Rabbit Code v1.01). I upsampled the file to 48 kHz with all resamplers and all combos. All produced a variable amount of distortions, except SRC's "Sinc Fastest" quality in normal and slow mode. The distortions disappeared completely in that quality and in normal and slow mode. laugh.gif
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Defsac
post May 25 2005, 14:40
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I just found a program called YMFTools for Yamaha cards, one of the options is "High quality 44.1 kHz Mode" so I enabled it and now I get very faint high pitched alien noise without resampling. I'm not entirely sure what it did but it seems to have reduced clipping.

Edit: Now when I use SSRC to 48 kHz it produces an extremely high frequency sine wave. At first I wasn't even sure I was hearing it but it's definitely there.

This post has been edited by Defsac: May 25 2005, 14:43
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Mr_Rabid_Teddybe...
post May 25 2005, 15:42
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QUOTE (cyborg @ May 24 2005, 06:08 AM)
I tested the "udial.ape" on foobar2000 0.8.3. My soundcard is VIA AC'97. I tried it first without resampler and there was distortions. When I adjusted the "Preamp" to -3 dB there was no distortions. Next I tested it with three resamplers: SSRC, PPHS and SRC (Secret Rabbit Code v1.01). I upsampled the file to 48 kHz with all resamplers and all combos. All produced a variable amount of distortions, except SRC's "Sinc Fastest" quality in normal and slow mode. The distortions disappeared completely in that quality and in normal and slow mode. laugh.gif
*

Strange! ohmy.gif I got an old SB Live! (CT4760). Udial produce a noticeable ambulance siren without resampling. Seemingly it was gone with resampling to 48kHz. But I now tried it more extensively and found that I still get some high pitched squeaking with resamping to 48kHz on my speakers when I yank the volume up a bit (but not on my headphones...). Except when, as cyborg found, using Secret Rabbit Code resampler with "Sinc Fastest" (normal and slow). Then I only get the dialing tone. The other qualities of SRC, and all qualities of SSRC and PPHS produces the squeaking... Wonder why? Well, guess I'm using SRC "Sinc Fastest" normal mode for playback hereafter....


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HisInfernalMajes...
post May 31 2005, 21:57
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Hello, I just wanted to say that I can't open the udial.zip for some reason. WinRAR spits out an "Unexpectied end of archive" when I try to open it.. I've tried a lot of things, but I just can't seem to open it... And I don't think the file is currupt because no one else has complained of it.. anyways, just thought I'd like you know.


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Jan S.
post May 31 2005, 23:18
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QUOTE (HisInfernalMajesty @ May 31 2005, 10:57 PM)
Hello, I just wanted to say that I can't open the udial.zip for some reason. WinRAR spits out an "Unexpectied end of archive" when I try to open it.. I've tried a lot of things, but I just can't seem to open it... And I don't think the file is currupt because no one else has complained of it.. anyways, just thought I'd like you know.
*

The zip works. Re-download.
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unfortunateson
post Jun 1 2005, 01:54
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No odd noises/buzzing at all, using an EMU 0404.
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Acid8000
post Jun 23 2005, 12:06
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Sorry for the bump but I thought I may add the strange results I observed playing this sample.

Okay, I just tested this sample with my cheap/old Creative SoundBlaster PCI 4.1 Digital and my old (1970s) Pioneer SA-5300, as well as cheap Koss KSC10 Stereophones. Strangely enough no screeching or other weird noises at all noticed when using all output methods even when all the sound cards outputs are maxed. No noises either until I turn up the amp to unreasonably loud levels. I did not need to use any resampling, and I know my card resamples to 48000Hz.
Despite not hearing any 'ambulance' (I had to use the soft clipping limiter in Foobar to hear what that sounded like at first), I could definitely hear the high frequency/ies (perhaps because I'm still a teenager). Using tone generators up to 21000Hz or so I can hear a similar effect so I think its more a case of sensitive hearing rather than limited equipment.
On another note, I'm hoping that listening to such loud high frequencies wont harm my hearing down the line.

Edit: Perhaps I should test this sample in Linux to see whether the resampling behaviour is any different in that operating system. Unfortunately it won't be a 100% accurate replication of the test as maxing the volume in Linux results in very obvious clipping (not sure if by hardware or software) with normal music.

This post has been edited by Acid8000: Jun 23 2005, 12:11


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mat128
post Jun 30 2005, 01:46
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QUOTE (HisInfernalMajesty @ May 31 2005, 04:57 PM)
Hello, I just wanted to say that I can't open the udial.zip for some reason. WinRAR spits out an "Unexpectied end of archive" when I try to open it.. I've tried a lot of things, but I just can't seem to open it... And I don't think the file is currupt because no one else has complained of it.. anyways, just thought I'd like you know.
*

I'm getting the same shit ohmy.gif thought I was alone hehe... And I have to subscribe to Yahoo Groups to get the samples mirror (I subscribed but its awaiting approval...)
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Caleb_
post Jul 26 2005, 23:09
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I have SB Live Value. kx drivers 3537. My DSP is cleared - I have there only two src (one is FXBus 0/1, another is AC97 Microphone) and k1lt. I tested this file on foobar2000 0.8.3. On every output (DS, wave, ASIO, Kernel Streaming) is good - without "aliens", resampling to 48khz isn't needed (but i use it). Everything was doing with clear DSP in foobar, but when i add soft clipping limiter i have distortion. So I shouldn't use soft clipping limiter?

update: I've tested this on my Creative MuVo. I made mp3 from lame 3.90.2 --alt-preset insane (320kbps) - on computer it sounds like original, but when i listen to this on my MuVo when high frequency was it sounds like clicking or wheeze but this wasn't "alien sounds" like on computer. Something little different.

This post has been edited by Caleb_: Jul 26 2005, 23:14
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Acid8000
post Jul 27 2005, 09:46
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QUOTE (Caleb_ @ Jul 27 2005, 08:09 AM)
I have SB Live Value. kx drivers 3537. My DSP is cleared - I have there only two src (one is FXBus 0/1, another is AC97 Microphone) and k1lt. I tested this file on foobar2000 0.8.3. On every output (DS, wave, ASIO, Kernel Streaming) is good - without "aliens", resampling to 48khz isn't needed (but i use it). Everything was doing with clear DSP in foobar, but when i add soft clipping limiter i have distortion. So I shouldn't use soft clipping limiter?

update: I've tested this on my Creative MuVo. I made mp3 from lame 3.90.2 --alt-preset insane (320kbps) - on computer it sounds like original, but when i listen to this on my MuVo when high frequency was it sounds like clicking or wheeze but this wasn't "alien sounds" like on computer. Something little different.
*


Forget using this sample with a lossy encode. It's pointless. Instead of using the soft clipping limiter, use the advanced limiter. The soft clipping limiter was designed to clip before the sound card does to prevent worse sounds coming from certain sound cards I believe.


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Caleb_
post Jul 27 2005, 09:53
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I used mp3, because MuVo didn't read wave
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Acid8000
post Jul 27 2005, 10:45
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Any modification of this sample will cause it to not function as intended.


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Caleb_
post Jul 28 2005, 22:08
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I've tested this sample on another computer (Yamaha OPL3SA2 on ISA slot). Results are impressive - with windows drivers with volume at full level, without any DSP in foobar and RG - no clipping. On every outputs (DS, wave, Kernel) and every sample rate (44100, 48000). Only when soft clipping limiter was on, there was "alien sounds". I'm impressed, because this sound card has many years (I have it for about 8 years) and sounds better than newest sound card from Creative. OS - XP HE
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Shade[ST]
post Jul 28 2005, 22:57
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QUOTE (Caleb_ @ Jul 28 2005, 03:08 PM)
I've tested this sample on another computer (Yamaha OPL3SA2 on ISA slot). Results are impressive - with windows drivers with volume at full level, without any DSP in foobar and RG - no clipping. On every outputs (DS, wave, Kernel) and every sample rate (44100, 48000). Only when soft clipping limiter was on, there was "alien sounds". I'm impressed, because this sound card has many years (I have it for about 8 years) and sounds better than newest sound card from Creative. OS - XP HE
*

maybe because it's not ac97 compatible?
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Acid8000
post Jul 29 2005, 09:29
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What's with the AC97 codec resampling bullshit?


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cyborg
post Jul 29 2005, 18:12
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QUOTE
What's with the AC97 codec resampling bullshit?

If you mean my earlier post:
QUOTE
I tested the "udial.ape" on foobar2000 0.8.3. My soundcard is VIA AC'97. I tried it first without resampler and there was distortions. When I adjusted the "Preamp" to -3 dB there was no distortions. Next I tested it with three resamplers: SSRC, PPHS and SRC (Secret Rabbit Code v1.01). I upsampled the file to 48 kHz with all resamplers and all combos. All produced a variable amount of distortions, except SRC's "Sinc Fastest" quality in normal and slow mode. The distortions disappeared completely in that quality and in normal and slow mode.

Then I assure you it's not "bullshit". It did work in my AC'97 soundcard. smile.gif
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TedFromAccountin...
post Jul 29 2005, 19:05
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If you use the Simple Spectrum visualization (set to mixdown) for foobar, you can easily see if there are any distortions, without blowing your speakers. SRC on Sinc Fastest worked best for me also with my SB Live! 5.1. Simple Spectrum still showed some small distortions, though I could not hear them. Resampling to 32kHz with any resampler resulted in no audible or visual distortions w/ simple spectrum.

See Here for a little image I made of the various resamplers on Simple Spectrum.

1 is with no resampling, normal Creative drivers on my SB Live! 5.1
2 is SSRC set to 48kHz
3 is PPHS set to 48kHz
4 is SRC Sinc Fastest at 48kHz
5 is any resampler at 32kHz
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