Personal Listening Test of Opus, Celt, AAC at 75-100kbps, ABC/HR blind test, 1 Listener |
Personal Listening Test of Opus, Celt, AAC at 75-100kbps, ABC/HR blind test, 1 Listener |
Nov 17 2012, 09:25
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 16-November 12 From: Kyoto, Japan Member No.: 104567 |
Abstract:
Blind Comparison between 2012/09 new Opusenc(tfsel5), old Celtenc 0.11.2, Apple AAC-LC tvbr, cvbr. This is an English version of my original post in Japanese. http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kamedo2/20121116/1353099244#seemore Encoders: libopus 0.9.11-146-gdc4f83b-exp_analysis https://people.xiph.org/~greg/opus-tools_exp_dc4f83be.zip celt-0.11.2-win32 https://people.xiph.org/~greg/celt-0.11.2-win32.zip qaac 1.40 qaac 1.40 Settings: opusenc --bitrate 66 input.wav output.wav celtenc input.48k.raw --bitrate 75 --comp 10 output.wav qaac --cvbr 72 -o output.m4a input.wav qaac --tvbr 27 -o output.m4a input.wav opusenc --bitrate 90 input.wav output.wav celtenc input.48k.raw --bitrate 100 --comp 10 output.wav qaac --cvbr 96 -o output.m4a input.wav qaac --tvbr 45 -o output.m4a input.wav Samples: 20 Sounds of various genres, from easy to modestly critical. http://zak.s206.xrea.com/bitratetest/main.htm To download, access to the link above, 2nd paragraph, 3rd-6th links. (40_30sec - Run up) Hardwares: Sony PSP-3000 + RP-HT560(1st) , RP-HJE150(2nd), took the average of the two results. Results: ![]() ![]() Conclusions & Observations: I could not detect a significant improvement in the new September 1st version of Opus, from the old Celtenc in 2011. It's possibly because the new Opus inflates bitrates more than it improves qualities, although the set of sounds contain easy samples. On 75kbps, Opus/Celt are markedly better. On 100kbps, there is no big difference between those codecs. Raw data: 40 Logs and encoders, decoders log http://zak.s206.xrea.com/bitratetest/log_o...kbps100kbps.zip CODE % Opus, AAC 75kbps, 100kbps ABC/HR Score % This format is compatible with my graphmaker, as well as ff123's FRIEDMAN. opus_75k celt_75k cvbr_75k tvbr_75k opus100k celt100k cvbr100k tvbr100k %features 6 75kbps 75kbps 75kbps 75kbps 100kbps 100kbps 100kbps 100kbps %features 7 OPUS OPUS AAC-LC AAC-LC OPUS OPUS AAC-LC AAC-LC 3.050 3.100 2.500 2.750 3.500 3.750 3.700 3.800 3.750 2.950 2.700 2.750 4.050 3.800 4.000 3.950 2.800 2.550 3.000 3.000 3.600 3.250 4.050 3.900 2.700 3.150 2.350 2.300 3.350 3.800 3.600 3.700 4.000 3.400 2.850 2.850 4.350 3.900 3.550 3.550 2.600 2.550 2.800 2.800 3.350 3.150 3.950 3.900 3.400 3.950 3.000 3.200 3.850 4.500 3.700 3.800 3.450 3.500 2.900 2.800 3.850 4.050 4.050 4.150 2.950 2.700 3.550 3.450 3.250 3.450 4.000 3.850 3.100 3.400 2.750 2.600 3.800 3.850 4.150 4.000 3.350 3.100 2.600 2.600 3.750 3.400 3.450 3.500 3.750 3.350 2.800 2.950 4.050 3.750 3.800 3.850 3.550 3.300 2.600 2.650 4.250 3.950 3.750 3.600 3.100 3.350 2.750 2.550 3.650 3.700 3.850 3.800 3.400 3.450 2.900 2.900 3.650 3.950 3.750 3.900 3.250 3.300 2.750 2.800 3.650 3.850 3.950 3.750 3.600 3.800 3.300 3.300 3.550 4.000 3.650 3.700 3.700 3.350 3.300 3.300 3.900 3.650 4.100 4.000 3.100 3.600 3.150 3.000 3.700 3.800 4.100 3.850 3.650 4.050 3.000 2.900 4.050 4.250 3.750 3.550 It's not strange that some scores get 0.050 scale because I did tests twice per each music. |
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Nov 18 2012, 09:20
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#2
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 735 Joined: 17-September 06 Member No.: 35307 |
QUOTE x-axis=actual bitrate That was one query I did have about your method, Kamedo2 - mainly because I don't speak more than about 5 words of Japanese to find out for myself. As you have been so thorough, I expect we can assume that you tested the encoders on a larger collection (maybe 10 or many more CDs) of normal music to determine the target settings to achieve the bitrate target, and that you plotted THAT collection-wide bitrate (for the large sample size) on the horizontal axis of your graphs, ignoring the actual bitrate used for the test samples? The bitrate on a number of short samples (with more problem samples than usual) may properly be much higher than the average of a wide collection and is not relevant in the context of fair comparison. (That's the beauty of well tuned VBR, and to some extent modern constrained VBR as used by the 'CBR' modes - using much higher bitrate when the sound requires it and less when it doesn't without inflating the average over a whole collection). There's also a chance that Opus produces lower bitrates for short samples as it doesn't use large codebooks compared to AAC, Vorbis etc., so using the sample-wide bitrate would give an over-emphasised disadvantage to AAC at lower bitrates on shorter-than-normal samples, again requiring the bitrate of a wider collection of representative CD releases, presumably encoded in the popular file-per-track mode without any pre-applied Replay Gain, as that's most representative of real use of lossy encoders for playback. |
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Nov 18 2012, 10:23
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 16-November 12 From: Kyoto, Japan Member No.: 104567 |
QUOTE x-axis=actual bitrate That was one query I did have about your method, Kamedo2 - mainly because I don't speak more than about 5 words of Japanese to find out for myself. As you have been so thorough, I expect we can assume that you tested the encoders on a larger collection (maybe 10 or many more CDs) of normal music to determine the target settings to achieve the bitrate target, and that you plotted THAT collection-wide bitrate (for the large sample size) on the horizontal axis of your graphs, ignoring the actual bitrate used for the test samples? Horizontal axis is always the average actual bitrate including headers and footers of each sample. I calculated filesize*8/(sample_num/44100) of each sample, typically 20-30sec. Then, I took the average of the 20 bitrates in bps. Larger collections are NEVER used. Encoded files are typically around 200KB. Opus should benefit form smaller codebooks in this case. QUOTE larger collection (maybe 10 or many more CDs) of normal music My set of samples are fairly normal. At least they are not an array of super-critical fatboys, although short. The last 5 samples from the 20 samples I used.(Reunion Blues ~ Run up) http://zak.s206.xrea.com/bitratetest/bitra...st_wav25-29.zip CODE list of audio file size in KB(1000B)
286 377 187 220 231 151 153 278 104 232 252 204 182 246 187 251 267 255 155 170 283 278 182 231 175 165 191 264 100 237 260 192 188 265 190 282 289 256 186 189 303 280 202 233 190 163 191 266 108 233 273 199 188 263 184 313 278 256 187 189 319 216 208 224 175 163 191 253 108 209 268 205 163 240 154 341 233 242 169 158 389 509 252 298 313 204 202 375 139 311 342 276 244 334 238 341 344 344 210 229 379 373 242 309 234 220 255 353 133 316 346 257 250 354 253 376 386 343 249 252 415 370 265 310 252 222 252 355 143 312 372 264 248 354 249 411 366 341 250 245 425 287 275 310 239 222 262 347 143 282 372 282 231 340 212 455 305 330 241 222 list of audio file bitrate including headers and footers in kbps(1000bps) 76 101 78 72 92 69 60 79 80 74 69 81 73 69 75 67 72 74 63 68 75 74 76 76 70 76 75 75 77 76 72 76 75 75 76 75 78 75 75 76 81 75 84 76 76 75 75 75 84 74 75 79 75 74 74 84 75 75 75 75 85 58 87 73 70 75 75 72 84 67 74 81 65 68 62 91 63 71 68 63 104 136 105 97 125 93 79 106 107 99 94 110 98 94 96 91 93 100 84 92 101 100 101 101 94 101 100 100 103 101 95 102 100 100 102 100 104 100 100 101 111 99 111 101 101 102 99 100 111 99 102 105 99 100 100 110 99 99 101 98 113 77 115 101 96 102 103 98 111 90 102 112 92 96 86 121 83 96 97 89 |
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Kamedo2 Personal Listening Test of Opus, Celt, AAC at 75-100kbps Nov 17 2012, 09:25
C.R.Helmrich Thanks for this interesting test, Kamedo, and welc... Nov 17 2012, 10:28
Kamedo2 QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Nov 17 2012, 18:28)... Nov 17 2012, 10:40
Dynamic Thank you for your time and dedication, Kamedo2 ... Nov 17 2012, 10:48
IgorC Kamedo2, Thank You for all your tests.
Glad to see... Nov 17 2012, 11:04
Kamedo2 The samples I used
The ABX criteria is 12/15(p=0... Nov 17 2012, 18:44
Anakunda QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 17 2012, 09:25) Blin... Nov 17 2012, 23:45
C.R.Helmrich QUOTE (Anakunda @ Nov 18 2012, 00:45) Is ... Nov 18 2012, 00:54
Kamedo2 QUOTE (Anakunda @ Nov 18 2012, 07:45) Is ... Nov 18 2012, 05:47
Dynamic Thank you for the clarification.
It seems that du... Nov 18 2012, 20:07
IgorC Kamedo2,
I'm not here to criticize your test... Nov 18 2012, 20:12
Kamedo2 QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 19 2012, 04:12) As all... Nov 19 2012, 02:17
jmvalin Hi Kamedo2, thanks for the test. From what I see, ... Nov 19 2012, 20:03
lvqcl I took my Opus compile (libopus v1.0.1-140-gc55f4d... Nov 19 2012, 20:32
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 20 2012, 04:03) it w... Nov 19 2012, 23:19
jmvalin QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 19 2012, 17:19) Acco... Nov 20 2012, 18:39
Dynamic Thanks again to everyone in this thread. I'm c... Nov 20 2012, 03:03
jmvalin QUOTE (Dynamic @ Nov 19 2012, 21:03) We d... Nov 20 2012, 05:13
C.R.Helmrich QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 17 2012, 10:25) Samp... Nov 20 2012, 23:01
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 20 2012, 13:13) CELT... Nov 21 2012, 02:08
jmvalin QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 20 2012, 20:08) I as... Nov 21 2012, 03:15
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 21 2012, 11:15) Actu... Nov 21 2012, 05:37
jmvalin QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 20 2012, 23:37) I me... Nov 22 2012, 02:45
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 22 2012, 10:45) QUOT... Nov 22 2012, 07:33
jmvalin QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 22 2012, 01:33) Ther... Nov 22 2012, 18:10
Kamedo2 Bitrate vs Score plot of the 20 samples used.
Opu... Nov 21 2012, 03:26
Dynamic I think the objectives in tests (experiments) matt... Nov 22 2012, 19:03
Kamedo2 QUOTE (Dynamic @ Nov 23 2012, 03:03) Ques... Nov 22 2012, 22:42
Kamedo2 QUOTE rjamorim: There's some inverse proportio... Nov 23 2012, 16:35
Kamedo2 I measured an average bitrate over wide range of n... Nov 23 2012, 21:51
jmvalin QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Nov 23 2012, 15:51) The ... Nov 24 2012, 19:49
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 25 2012, 03:49) QUOT... Nov 25 2012, 15:34
Kamedo2 My post #34 might be too difficult. I wish I had b... Nov 25 2012, 21:35
IgorC Interesting.
The Opus'es scores have less devi... Nov 26 2012, 03:08
Kamedo2 QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 26 2012, 11:08) The Op... Nov 26 2012, 23:56
DonP QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 25 2012, 21:08) In thi... Jan 3 2013, 02:57
Dynamic Once again, Kamedo2, I applaud you for your testin... Nov 26 2012, 21:57
Kamedo2 QUOTE (Dynamic @ Nov 27 2012, 05:57) As I... Nov 27 2012, 00:14
jmvalin Kamedo2, can you give 1.1-alpha a try? It includes... Jan 3 2013, 01:09
Kamedo2 QUOTE (jmvalin @ Jan 3 2013, 09:09) Kamed... Jan 5 2013, 11:50![]() ![]() |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd May 2013 - 07:26 |