Replay Gain: Album Gain vs. Track Gain Options

[pbelkner]

Given a Replay Gain tagged file, at playback time there's usually the choice between applying the album gain or the track gain. Both have their pros and cons but in general neither strategy seems to be perfect.

If we consider album gain as the "natural strategy" because it preserves the loudness difference between an album's individual tracks we may consider track gain as some kind of "deviation" from the "natural strategy" aiming to correct some flaws of the "natural strategy".

Viewed this way the question rises why there shouldn't be a measure allowing us to control the "deviation" in a smooth way from 0% (album gain) to 100% (track gain)? The latest version with the FFSoX Player plugin for WA implements the idea:

What do you think about it? Do you find it useful?

[skamp]

That's a solution to a problem that I don't know exists. Album gain = preserve the integrity of an album; makes sense when listening to albums. Track gain: make everything sound as loud; makes sense when shuffling (or picking single tracks from various albums). What other playback modes are there that would benefit from your solution?

This post has been edited by skamp: Nov 25 2012, 17:29

[pbelkner]

That's a solution to a problem that I don't know exists.

That may be true for you, but for sure not for me.

Album gain = preserve the integrity of an album; makes sense when listening to albums.

Agreed. That's why I call it the "natural strategy".

Track gain: make everything sound as loud; makes sense when shuffling (or picking single tracks from various albums).

Not agreed. The goal is not to have everything as loud as possible but to have everything appearing as equal loud, and that's the crux.

What other playback modes are there that would benefit from your solution?

I had the idea last week and implemented it immediately. Having listened for some days to a shuffle with strategy "50%", I have the impression that it improves dramatically the strategy "track" == "100%".

[skamp]

Not agreed. The goal is not to have everything as loud as possible but to have everything appearing as equal loud, and that's the crux.

(emphasis mine) Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't say "as loud as possible", I said "as loud". I should have said "equally loud". But that's exactly what track gain does.

[pbelkner]

But that's exactly what track gain does.

It claims that it does, but it doesn't in practice.

[skamp]

It claims that it does, but it doesn't in practice.

Can you demonstrate, even empirically, how it doesn't? I mean, the algorithm is the same for both album and track gains. Why would track gain fail where album gain succeeds?

This post has been edited by skamp: Nov 25 2012, 17:58

[greynol]

Can you demonstrate, even empirically, how it doesn't?

The forum has had many a testimonial on RG doing less than a perfect job. I'll again offer up how my Beatles tracks seem to be a good 4-6 dB louder to my ears than an average non-Beatles track in my collection (vocals are far too punchy).

I don't think this will provide a solution to that problem however.

That said, maybe you guys are discussing some other, more nuanced problem than RG track gain really doesn't work as advertised (same can be said for album gain and to an even greater extent, but I fear that would be going too far off-topic).

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 25 2012, 18:22