Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience, It Really IS About the Music Options

[Engelsstaub]

Due to some recent past experiences in other threads wherein some members (who plainly state their honest dislike of vinyl) claim that modern LPs are just as dynamically clipped as their CD-counterparts, I'd like to take an opportunity to illustrate that this is IME not the case. I've heard it stated more than once that "vinyl is not about the music..it's about the ritual.) This is seemingly just plain-old lazy bias. It can easily be forgiven in that these posters make it pretty obvious that they don't purchase vinyl, let alone compare modern releases to their CD-counterparts.

Here are screenshots from needledrops I've done of some of my favorite recent records. All but one were released in the past two years. Warrel Dane's "Praises to the War Machine" was released in 2008. (As a fun side-note, the vinyl LP came with the CD and was limited to 1,000 copies worldwide.)

I would like to note that I did not cherry-pick these examples. I only have about three more needledrops that I also have a CD copy or iTunes Matched version of. I can upload those as well. It should also be noted that all of these examples are on the heavier-side of the metal genre and probably are far more dense in sound than most other examples from other genres.

I've brought each vinyl recording up to 0.1 under 0 dB for easier comparison. None of the peaks are "pops" or any artifacts associated with the LP medium. Only one had a "pop" that hit the ceiling and I corrected it before applying gain.


Borknagar - "The Earthling" from "Urd" (2012)

LP



iTunes Matched AAC




In Flames - "Ropes" from "Sounds of a Playground Fading" (2011)

LP



CD



(This album is an egregious example of how bad they can make a modern CD sound through destructive normalization.)


Saint Vitus - "Let Them Fall" from "Lillie: F-65" (2012)

LP



CD



(Yes, really. It sounds worse than it looks IME.)


Warrel Dane - "Brother" from "Praises to the War Machine" (2008)

LP



CD




Septicflesh - "Oceans of Grey" from "The Great Mass" (2011)

LP



CD




[continued in next post due to apparent image constraints]

[Engelsstaub]

I've replaygained Ropes sample and played them back with track gain adjustment, so they are at same volume.
You can say whatever you want, but these samples DO sound different - the LP one is clearer, and the CD one is muddier...

I greatly value your input. I'm glad to see respondents to this topic are taking this in the right spirit. I feared the reaction would largely be...well...reactionary

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You really should follow the two links that krabapple posted...
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However, when zoomed in, and listened to, your results are different. In Dirty Window of Opportunity, at 0:27.924 in the AAC version the kick drum clips, whereas it does not appear to clip in the LP version (found at 0:27.811). The sound of the two versions becomes much closer if you match the volume (drop the CD version by 8.47dB) and match the EQ (between flat and -2dB at 100Hz, raising to 0dB around 3kHz, 2-3dB up by 10kHz; gentle slope throughout) - but the CD still has a slightly more compressed sound. I think it may have better stereo separation though...
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It seems your turntable set-up boosts the treble by 2-3dB. It's quite common for cartridges to add a little "smiley face" EQ, though yours doesn't seem to help the bass. All other things being equal, if you like this EQ, you'll prefer vinyl over CD every time on your set up...

Many thanks for your time and input, David. I'm now aware that my little pictures are somewhat inadequate in conveying the existence of the sort of problems I'm talking about. I'm hoping we're all learning even just a little here. I know I've learned a lot thus far.

I'm going to be completely honest and concede that I've never tried to match the two quite as meticulously as you have. ...so there's that In my experience, and the way I've compared (namely just listening to the two on the same stereo at about the same volume) I almost always favor the vinyl "masters" by a significant margin. I don't believe this is personal bias because I actually really want the CDs/AACs to sound better. It's less of a pain in my ass that way

Regarding my TT: I guess I do prefer just slightly more treble than what any given recording really has by default. I usually leave it alone either way whether listening to vinyl or digital. FWIW I'm listening to my iPod plugged into my receiver right now and the treble seems very agreeable to me. I've no intention of hunting down the vinyl version of what I'm currently listening to--a 2012 release...it sounds perfectly adequate and I'm enjoying the music and not thinking about how much better it could have been produced.

There's a point IMO when people, regardless of medium-preference, start becoming so overly-analytical that they actually appear to not even want to try to enjoy the music. (This isn't directed at you....it's just a closing observation. Nobody in this thread has come across this way to me. I enjoy your posts and find them enlightening.)

While I agree it is likely worthwhile to get into vinyl seeing those waveforms, this more shows that the current (and future?) generation of (label-employed) mastering engineers is batshit retarded, more than vinyl is a superior medium...

I couldn't agree more. I would never argue that vinyl is a superior medium to digital. I feel it can be more than adequate, but I prefer digital when all things are seemingly equal to me. I think we may be able to all agree that modern pop, rock, and metal "masterings" suck and that they only seem to suck a little less at least on some of these vinyl examples I've provided. As before, I don't really believe that the word "mastering" is adequate for description or that it's terribly different between the CD and the vinyl. I believe we're really hearing a "normalization" that would be best left up to the consumer. The problem is that the public by and large gives less than two-thirds of a crap. Their iTunes software provides Soundcheck for them but they'd rather have their digital music spoon-fed too them at "acceptable" levels for their cell phones.

Are win margins larger with vinyl, somehow? I always assumed CD technology was a win-win for both customers and producers, maybe I'm wrong?

I don't think the profit margins for vinyl are higher. Afaik, nowadays, the majority of vinyl presses result in a loss but I'm not entirely sure. Even if vinyl was vastly more profitable than CDs, it would still be a tiny market. For example, look at the sales figures for 2011 for the home country of both of us, Germany. Revenues from vinyl were EUR 14 mil (based on 0.7 mil units sold), while revenues from CD were EUR 1.1 bil (based on 97 mil units sold). So in 2011, the market for CDs was about 80 times as large as the market for vinyl.

From personal observation it seems that vinyl is produced in higher numbers for the UK/EU market. I think the sales may be even less for the North American or Australian market, for example.

Edit for grammar.

This post has been edited by Engelsstaub: Dec 6 2012, 17:59