Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience, It Really IS About the Music Options

[Engelsstaub]

Due to some recent past experiences in other threads wherein some members (who plainly state their honest dislike of vinyl) claim that modern LPs are just as dynamically clipped as their CD-counterparts, I'd like to take an opportunity to illustrate that this is IME not the case. I've heard it stated more than once that "vinyl is not about the music..it's about the ritual.) This is seemingly just plain-old lazy bias. It can easily be forgiven in that these posters make it pretty obvious that they don't purchase vinyl, let alone compare modern releases to their CD-counterparts.

Here are screenshots from needledrops I've done of some of my favorite recent records. All but one were released in the past two years. Warrel Dane's "Praises to the War Machine" was released in 2008. (As a fun side-note, the vinyl LP came with the CD and was limited to 1,000 copies worldwide.)

I would like to note that I did not cherry-pick these examples. I only have about three more needledrops that I also have a CD copy or iTunes Matched version of. I can upload those as well. It should also be noted that all of these examples are on the heavier-side of the metal genre and probably are far more dense in sound than most other examples from other genres.

I've brought each vinyl recording up to 0.1 under 0 dB for easier comparison. None of the peaks are "pops" or any artifacts associated with the LP medium. Only one had a "pop" that hit the ceiling and I corrected it before applying gain.


Borknagar - "The Earthling" from "Urd" (2012)

LP



iTunes Matched AAC




In Flames - "Ropes" from "Sounds of a Playground Fading" (2011)

LP



CD



(This album is an egregious example of how bad they can make a modern CD sound through destructive normalization.)


Saint Vitus - "Let Them Fall" from "Lillie: F-65" (2012)

LP



CD



(Yes, really. It sounds worse than it looks IME.)


Warrel Dane - "Brother" from "Praises to the War Machine" (2008)

LP



CD




Septicflesh - "Oceans of Grey" from "The Great Mass" (2011)

LP



CD




[continued in next post due to apparent image constraints]

[Engelsstaub]

...Now the vinyl is two or even three times the asking price of the CD.

The last straw for me was last year. I've been buying Ry Cooder on vinyl for over 40 years. The last one he wanted £35.

This is (19/20 times) unfortunately true IME as well. Vinyl is beginning to be seen as a niche-market for serious audiophiles (and hipsters ) so they're beginning to price the product accordingly. Part of it's due to vinyl's very low marketshare...they try to make up profits by making limited collectible pressings.

...I'm developing a great concern that, as we have evidence of different mastering between two delivery format for marketing reasons only, the same could happen on the same digital domain between 16/44.1 and those new hi-res formats.

I could probably demonstrate that this is the case at least for the few DVD-As that I have. Katatonia issued a limited DVD-A for their latest album "Dead End Kings." It was my observation that the CD was +3 dB louder. The difference wasn't massive though. I've always suspected that this was the case with most DVD-As and SACDs.

In light of this thread, I de-sweep my earlier sweeping detracting statement about vinyl.

It's simply not a good idea to levy broad generalizations based on a limited number of titles from an even more limited number of labels and genres.

So one reasonable thing to do is get together more albums and more LPs from the last decade from a wild variety of sonic styles, and compare. There probably aren't too many individuals with both the LP and CD for their entire collection, but when pooling our resources, I'm sure we can come to reasonable conclusions.

Thanks for that, dhromed. I think it's a common misconception so it shouldn't be seen as specific to your statement only. If somebody reminded me of all the incorrect (and sometimes downright asinine) things I've said on this forum we could have pages devoted to it. I don't think you intended to malign anyone...it's just what you legitimately believed.

Yours is a great idea. We should keep it going if possible. Just bump the thread with new examples or whatever admin or mods would see as appropriate. It wouldn't even matter if it took a few years to collect enough examples to start forming better conclusions IMO. As long as it's beneficial to the community.

[GeSomeone]

I could probably demonstrate that this is the case at least for the few DVD-As that I have. Katatonia issued a limited DVD-A for their latest album "Dead End Kings." It was my observation that the CD was +3 dB louder. The difference wasn't massive though.

In this particular case you cannot compare them. There is no real stereo mix on the DVD-A, just a downmix of the 5.1 (and the first pressing had that wrong too). Apparently there was no higher than CD resolution stereo mix available when the DVD-A was authored.
So here we're looking at a different mix and mastering between CD and DVD-A. However I must say that the dynamics were surprising for a recent rock album.