Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience, It Really IS About the Music |
Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience, It Really IS About the Music |
Dec 5 2012, 18:59
Post
#1
|
|
![]() Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 16-February 10 Member No.: 78200 |
Due to some recent past experiences in other threads wherein some members (who plainly state their honest dislike of vinyl) claim that modern LPs are just as dynamically clipped as their CD-counterparts, I'd like to take an opportunity to illustrate that this is IME not the case. I've heard it stated more than once that "vinyl is not about the music..it's about the ritual.) This is seemingly just plain-old lazy bias. It can easily be forgiven in that these posters make it pretty obvious that they don't purchase vinyl, let alone compare modern releases to their CD-counterparts.
Here are screenshots from needledrops I've done of some of my favorite recent records. All but one were released in the past two years. Warrel Dane's "Praises to the War Machine" was released in 2008. (As a fun side-note, the vinyl LP came with the CD and was limited to 1,000 copies worldwide.) I would like to note that I did not cherry-pick these examples. I only have about three more needledrops that I also have a CD copy or iTunes Matched version of. I can upload those as well. It should also be noted that all of these examples are on the heavier-side of the metal genre and probably are far more dense in sound than most other examples from other genres. I've brought each vinyl recording up to 0.1 under 0 dB for easier comparison. None of the peaks are "pops" or any artifacts associated with the LP medium. Only one had a "pop" that hit the ceiling and I corrected it before applying gain. Borknagar - "The Earthling" from "Urd" (2012) LP ![]() iTunes Matched AAC ![]() In Flames - "Ropes" from "Sounds of a Playground Fading" (2011) LP ![]() CD ![]() (This album is an egregious example of how bad they can make a modern CD sound through destructive normalization.) Saint Vitus - "Let Them Fall" from "Lillie: F-65" (2012) LP ![]() CD ![]() (Yes, really. It sounds worse than it looks IME.) Warrel Dane - "Brother" from "Praises to the War Machine" (2008) LP ![]() CD ![]() Septicflesh - "Oceans of Grey" from "The Great Mass" (2011) LP ![]() CD ![]() [continued in next post due to apparent image constraints] -------------------- The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
Jan 7 2013, 15:46
Post
#2
|
|
![]() ReplayGain developer Group: Developer Posts: 4615 Joined: 5-November 01 From: Yorkshire, UK Member No.: 409 |
I don't have anything recent on both vinyl and CD to compare.
I can't remember how the DR meter works. It would be worth taking a smashed CD master, attenuating it by 6dB, and running that through the DR meter as-is, and then applying a suitable all-pass filter and running that filtered copy through the DR meter - see if it gets fooled. Cheers, David. |
|
|
|
Engelsstaub Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience Dec 5 2012, 18:59
Engelsstaub Dimmu Borgir - "Born Treacherous" from ... Dec 5 2012, 19:00
Nessuno Never actually made measurement of the sort, but m... Dec 5 2012, 19:24
StephenPG QUOTE (Nessuno @ Dec 5 2012, 20:24) Never... Dec 5 2012, 22:14
krabapple QUOTE (StephenPG @ Dec 5 2012, 16:14) QUO... Dec 5 2012, 23:24
Nessuno QUOTE (krabapple @ Dec 5 2012, 23:24) QUO... Dec 6 2012, 10:26
krabapple QUOTE (Nessuno @ Dec 6 2012, 04:26) Yes, ... Dec 7 2012, 17:42
Nessuno QUOTE (krabapple @ Dec 7 2012, 17:42) Why... Dec 8 2012, 10:46
Engelsstaub Probably not I think people who produce classical... Dec 5 2012, 19:29
Porcus QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 5 2012, 19:29) I... Dec 5 2012, 20:05
rgtb QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 5 2012, 19:29) M... Dec 5 2012, 20:25
[JAZ] @Engelsstaub: While I agree that probably more car... Dec 5 2012, 20:08
Engelsstaub @ Porcus: I'm going to try to get a few sample... Dec 5 2012, 20:22
Engelsstaub I think it should be a bit more clear that we... Dec 5 2012, 20:59
2Bdecided QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 5 2012, 19:59) I... Dec 6 2012, 11:28
almostmitch I like what I see especially after just taking th... Dec 5 2012, 21:32
Engelsstaub QUOTE (almostmitch @ Dec 5 2012, 14:32) I... Dec 5 2012, 21:41
[JAZ] I'll wait for the samples, to see what I can g... Dec 5 2012, 21:45
Triza I left the rock scene primarily because of bad mas... Dec 5 2012, 21:50
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Triza @ Dec 5 2012, 14:50) I left ... Dec 5 2012, 21:59
almostmitch QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 5 2012, 15:59) A... Dec 5 2012, 22:22
[JAZ] Mmm... after a few tests, I cannot get what I want... Dec 5 2012, 22:56
Engelsstaub QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Dec 5 2012, 15:56)... Dec 6 2012, 00:46
krabapple You can't turned a hard limited (as in a limit... Dec 5 2012, 23:13
krabapple And please, before you conclude that vinyl 'so... Dec 5 2012, 23:27
Engelsstaub QUOTE (krabapple @ Dec 5 2012, 16:27) And... Dec 6 2012, 00:41
mjb2006 Can you upload a clip of one of the AAC files and ... Dec 6 2012, 01:57
Engelsstaub QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Dec 5 2012, 18:57) Can y... Dec 6 2012, 02:27
mjb2006 No, I mean, start with the AAC file and "appl... Dec 6 2012, 02:44
extrabigmehdi Well, just by looking at the graphs I wouldn... Dec 6 2012, 03:56
Engelsstaub QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Dec 5 2012, 20:56)... Dec 6 2012, 04:04
extrabigmehdi QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 6 2012, 03:04) D... Dec 6 2012, 04:43
Engelsstaub QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Dec 5 2012, 21:43)... Dec 6 2012, 06:35
Engelsstaub I've no software on the Macintosh platform tha... Dec 6 2012, 03:56
hlloyge I've replaygained Ropes sample and played them... Dec 6 2012, 09:25
[JAZ] QUOTE (krabapple @ Dec 5 2012, 23:13) You... Dec 6 2012, 12:06
Kohlrabi While I agree it is likely worthwhile to get into ... Dec 6 2012, 13:33
rgtb QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Dec 6 2012, 13:33) Are ... Dec 6 2012, 13:58

Nessuno QUOTE (rgtb @ Dec 6 2012, 13:58) I don... Dec 6 2012, 15:46
DVDdoug Most of my CDs don't "look" that bad... Dec 6 2012, 20:36
almostmitch QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 5 2012, 18:41) @... Dec 6 2012, 15:46
2Bdecided I've checked out "the earthling". Th... Dec 6 2012, 17:45
Engelsstaub QUOTE (hlloyge @ Dec 6 2012, 02:25) I... Dec 6 2012, 17:48
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Nessuno @ Dec 6 2012, 03:26) ...
G... Dec 6 2012, 17:56
Engelsstaub QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Dec 6 2012, 13:36) ...I... Dec 6 2012, 20:56
mjb2006 Assuming the QuickTime trim function doesn't t... Dec 7 2012, 11:20
2Bdecided QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Dec 7 2012, 10:20) I wou... Dec 10 2012, 14:00
Engelsstaub QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Dec 7 2012, 04:20) Assum... Dec 7 2012, 16:31
mixminus1 My thoughts exactly.
I'd be very surprised if... Dec 7 2012, 19:20
mjb2006 I'm wondering if we should change the vinyl my... Dec 7 2012, 22:07
greynol OT regarding the wiki:
I would strive to make the ... Dec 7 2012, 22:44
dhromed In light of this thread, I de-sweep my earlier swe... Dec 8 2012, 13:20
Engelsstaub Agreed. My personal vote (assuming I even have one... Dec 7 2012, 23:49
RonaldDumsfeld Impressive and thought provoking thread. Thanks E... Dec 8 2012, 01:47
Engelsstaub QUOTE (RonaldDumsfeld @ Dec 7 2012, 18:47... Dec 8 2012, 17:12
GeSomeone QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 8 2012, 17:12) I... Dec 10 2012, 22:03
Engelsstaub I had to go back nearly ten years (in pressing dat... Dec 10 2012, 18:30
Blueshirt QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Dec 10 2012, 18:30) ... Dec 10 2012, 20:39
Gecko I just had a quick listen to the "Heathen Thr... Dec 10 2012, 20:11
greynol BTW, just because a straight line in a waveform mi... Dec 10 2012, 20:20
WernerO QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 10 2012, 21:20) BTW,... Dec 11 2012, 09:04
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Gecko @ Dec 10 2012, 13:11) I just... Dec 10 2012, 21:25
Engelsstaub Well that's disappointing to hear.
I'm gl... Dec 10 2012, 23:20
Engelsstaub I'm bumping in the interest of continued relev... Jan 4 2013, 19:08
gnypp45 I haven't read this thread in detail, but I wo... Jan 4 2013, 22:35
DVDdoug QUOTE Indeed the crest factor of the allpass filte... Jan 4 2013, 23:04
Engelsstaub I'm not even sure what proof we still require ... Jan 5 2013, 00:37
rgtb QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 5 2013, 00:37) I... Jan 5 2013, 09:39

Nessuno QUOTE (rgtb @ Jan 5 2013, 09:39) given vi... Jan 5 2013, 10:51

Engelsstaub QUOTE (rgtb @ Jan 5 2013, 02:39) ...
give... Jan 5 2013, 12:01
Kohlrabi QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 5 2013, 00:37) I... Jan 5 2013, 09:47
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 5 2013, 02:47) ...I... Jan 5 2013, 12:10
DVDdoug QUOTE So I guess my question now is this: is the T... Jan 5 2013, 01:34
hlloyge I think that there is one mastering proces where t... Jan 5 2013, 16:02
Engelsstaub QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jan 5 2013, 09:02) I thi... Jan 5 2013, 17:02
GeSomeone QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 5 2013, 17:02) [... Jan 5 2013, 18:46
Engelsstaub Yes, I don't doubt that that is quite possibly... Jan 6 2013, 17:47
Engelsstaub Sounds like a good idea, David. I can easily figur... Jan 7 2013, 18:21
Kees de Visser QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 7 2013, 18:21) D... Jan 7 2013, 21:00
Engelsstaub Thanks, Kees de Visser.
Apparently iZotope RX2 do... Jan 7 2013, 21:55
DVDdoug QUOTE Does anyone know of a suitable all-pass filt... Jan 7 2013, 23:02
Engelsstaub Here is the DR value analysis of the CD (FLAC rip)... Jan 9 2013, 00:02
greynol QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 8 2013, 15:02) D... Jan 9 2013, 01:41
Engelsstaub I'm struggling to believe that the LP, even t... Jan 9 2013, 03:23
2Bdecided Thank you for posting those results Engelsstaub.
... Jan 9 2013, 11:07
greynol Beats not knowing that such an effect exists. Jan 9 2013, 04:16
Engelsstaub Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification.
I know some... Jan 9 2013, 16:33
Kohlrabi QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 9 2013, 16:33) .... Jan 9 2013, 16:58
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 9 2013, 09:58) If y... Jan 10 2013, 00:12
greynol Remove the b. Jan 10 2013, 00:16
Engelsstaub Even better
I think I'm going to give this... Jan 10 2013, 00:31
2Bdecided Actually, I think it would be wonderful to have a ... Jan 10 2013, 16:13
Engelsstaub I'll try to do my part in the near future. May... Jan 10 2013, 17:16
greynol I want to revisit this discussion because I just p... Jan 28 2013, 22:29
Engelsstaub QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 28 2013, 15:29) ...i... Jan 28 2013, 23:42
greynol Just the last one. Again this is solely based on ... Jan 28 2013, 23:50
2Bdecided This looks like one for the list of vinyl that bea... Jan 29 2013, 12:03
Kohlrabi QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 29 2013, 12:03) Th... Jan 29 2013, 16:41
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 29 2013, 09:41) ...... Jan 29 2013, 23:35![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 19th June 2013 - 13:18 |