Audible Differences in DAC's? Options

[sawdin]

When he announced the release of the ODAC, NwAvGuy posted the the following on his blog:

NO SNAKE OIL REQUIRED: Many audiophiles want to believe more elaborate or exotic DACs offer higher fidelity. The ODAC demonstrates you do NOT need any of these for 100% transparent performance:

Asynchronous USB
UAC2 (USB Audio Class 2) Support
Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion (ASRC),
Minimum Phase Filtering (no pre-ringing)
Non-oversampling NOS DAC chips
Dual DAC chips
Balanced Outputs
Vacuum Tube Stages
Elaborate and/or High Current Power Supplies

Is his position accurate/defensible?

If there was a well-designed DB/ABX test of the ODAC and sub $500/$1000 DAC's (e.g., Audioquest Dragonfly, iFi Micro iDAC, Audioengine D1, Emotiva XDA-2, etc.) that are are Asynchronous, USB Audio Class 2, etc. etc., do you think there would be 'audible/discernible' differences?

The reason that I am asking is that I am curious as to the whether there really is much of an audible difference between various sub $500 or $1,000 DAC's, and I haven't come across any DB tests of DAC's. I have read many subjective reviews that claim differences are quite noticeable. Of course, there are major differences in terms of the types and number of inputs and outputs that a DAC may have, whether they include a headphone amp, how portable they are, etc.

I am not trying to start a fight/flame war, I am just curious as to what the 'prevailing wisdom is' on this site. If you think there are differences in sub $500/$1000 DAC's, what do you believe are the relevant factors (e.g., USB vs Toslink/Coax)? I know that 'speakers' make a difference, but am unsure about how much, if any, difference there is between DAC's. Again, just trying to become an informed consumer (and save $), not trying to start fights.

TIA

PS...I should note that I appreciate people like NwAvGuy and others who try to provide quality products, diy options, etc., at reasonable prices.

[mzil]

I really wish I could see more curves than just that.

Heres another 30 or 40 devices and a bunch of headphones:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/index.php?dir=Comparisons
http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/index.php?dir=Single_Players

...
I'd say hes quite conservative. The impact of output impedance is enormous, and it factors into more then just frequency response (see THD at 1/2 vs. 1/8 for instance).

Thanks, but might you do me a favor and point out a particular example within those 100 files [all of devices with output impedances that are unknown to me and to the best of my knowledge not stated within the file itself], which demonstrates that breaking the 1/8th rule by just a little, (say closer to 1/4, 1/5th, 1/6th or 1/7th) causes a response variation one would expect to be audible? Thanks.


I don't doubt there will be visual problems with the graphs at anything less than his 1/8th rule, sure, however I've read some stuff he's written which suggests to me that he's concerned with tiny visual deviations of such plots which I would not expect to be audible in real world use. That's what I'm trying to gauge: what he considers a problem vs. what I consider a problem.

This post has been edited by mzil: Feb 26 2013, 00:32

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

I really wish I could see more curves than just that.

Heres another 30 or 40 devices and a bunch of headphones:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/index.php?dir=Comparisons
http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/index.php?dir=Single_Players

...
I'd say hes quite conservative. The impact of output impedance is enormous, and it factors into more then just frequency response (see THD at 1/2 vs. 1/8 for instance).

Thanks, but might you do me a favor and point out a particular example within those 100 files [all of devices with output impedances that are unknown to me and to the best of my knowledge not stated within the file itself], which demonstrates that breaking the 1/8th rule by just a little, (say closer to 1/4, 1/5th, 1/6th or 1/7th) causes a response variation one would expect to be audible?

The purple line on this graph looks pretty audible to me. I'll leave evaluation of the rest of the parameters to you.

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons...ip%2B%29/fr.png

Blue and purple here seem problematical:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons...y%20A845/fr.png

Green and purple here, and the problem is relatred to the output coupling caps, not source Z

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons...%20Vibez/fr.png

Green and white here, and again its a coupling capacitor problem, not source Z

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons...%20Loads/fr.png

Hope this helps.