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Why is opus only good at 64/kbs
Warning
post Jan 26 2013, 10:31
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Member No.: 96612



So I was very skeptical about opus when it sounded like a new OGG Vorbis hype where the codec is both free and crappy quality. I didn't think without SBR it would be able to compete with Nero HE-AAC. So I compared at different bitrates and opus always sounded worse. I decided to ABX at different bitrates, opus failed on 32 and 48 but not 64 where the treble was audibly brighter than Nero.

Ok you got me convinced that opus sounds better at 64 kb/s, why does it suck so bad at other bitrates? Also, why didn't you guys include WMA in your listening test along with opus? WMA has proven to be slightly superior quality to HE-AAC at 64 kb/s so maybe opus still has a competitor.

Also, fix your biased testing methodology and keep the bitrates as close as possible to the original! Jesus. My hypothetical codec produces output bitrates of 192 kb/s when my quality setting intends it to be half as less, I demand it to be nominated as capable of transparency at 16 kb/s. rolleyes.gif
Your unscientific results makes me keep clear of your website these days.
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Warning
post Jan 26 2013, 22:56
Post #2





Group: Banned
Posts: 18
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Member No.: 96612



Results:

CODE
ABC/HR Version 1.0, 6 May 2004
Testname: grcitrance MP4/OPUS

1R = M:\grcopus32.wav
2L = M:\grc64MP4.wav
3L = M:\grc64MP4cbr.wav
4R = M:\grc32MP4.wav
5L = M:\grcopus48.wav
6R = M:\grcopus64.wav
7R = M:\grc48MP4.wav

---------------------------------------
General Comments:

---------------------------------------
1R File: M:\grcopus32.wav
1R Rating: 2.5
1R Comment: Extremely rough
---------------------------------------
2L File: M:\grc64MP4.wav
2L Rating: 3.6
2L Comment: Kinda duller and the upper freqs are distorted
---------------------------------------
3L File: M:\grc64MP4cbr.wav
3L Rating: 3.6
3L Comment: cant tell apart from sample2, I believe it's slightly better
---------------------------------------
4R File: M:\grc32MP4.wav
4R Rating: 2.4
4R Comment: Somewhat less rough than sample1 but has reduced stereo
---------------------------------------
5L File: M:\grcopus48.wav
5L Rating: 2.9
5L Comment: Less distortion than 1 but more than 2 and 3
---------------------------------------
6R File: M:\grcopus64.wav
6R Rating: 4.1
6R Comment: Noticeably rougher treble than original and slightly dull but otherwise pretty good
---------------------------------------
7R File: M:\grc48MP4.wav
7R Rating: 2.8
7R Comment: It has less distortion in the upper freqs than 5 but sounds duller like the upper freq was cut completely and stereo is reduced
---------------------------------------
ABX Results:
Original vs M:\grcopus32.wav
    9 out of 10, pval = 0.011
Original vs M:\grc64MP4.wav
    10 out of 10, pval < 0.001
Original vs M:\grc64MP4cbr.wav
    10 out of 10, pval < 0.001
Original vs M:\grcopus64.wav
    10 out of 11, pval = 0.006
M:\grc64MP4.wav vs M:\grc64MP4cbr.wav
    3 out of 5, pval = 0.500


OGG sounds worse than Nero AAC, your own listening tests proved it before you started biasing the results.

I'm aware the tests are VBR, they STILL have to match the target bitrate as much as possible for the test to be scientific. All the bitrates in my test are VBR but they also are adjusted to be as close to 32, 48 or 64 kb/s as possible, I'm not gonna allow opus to go all the way up to 80 if the target is 64. Not too hard to comprehend. The truth is in the middle. Stop going to extremes and thinking CBR is your only other option. Do VBR and adjust the quality setting to match the bitrate. Stop thinking in black and white.

And I've been lurking here since 2007, thanks. I just rarely post. You run a tightly-moderated fascist hierarchy and are overrun with trolls and people with serious problems. I'll move to North Korea if I wanna deal with that.

I never use parametric stereo, I add -he to Nero. PS makes everything sound worse.

WMA superiority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media...o#Sound_quality I can't find the PDF at the moment, the link is outdated.

QUOTE
I'm guessing he's in violation of TOS #12, though I can't prove it at the moment.


And the fascistic impulse reveals itself already, didn't take too long I see. I wonder why many don't post here...

This post has been edited by Warning: Jan 26 2013, 22:57
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saratoga
post Jan 26 2013, 23:20
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QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) *
Results:


Unless I'm misunderstanding something, you rated opus as the best quality for each bitrate?

Why do you think its worse then AAC?

QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) *
I'm aware the tests are VBR, they STILL have to match the target bitrate as much as possible for the test to be scientific. All the bitrates in my test are VBR but they also are adjusted to be as close to 32, 48 or 64 kb/s as possible, I'm not gonna allow opus to go all the way up to 80 if the target is 64. Not too hard to comprehend. The truth is in the middle. Stop going to extremes and thinking CBR is your only other option. Do VBR and adjust the quality setting to match the bitrate. Stop thinking in black and white.


Thats not a very useful methodology IMO for testing VBR codecs. The entire point of VBR is to maximize quality for a given bitrate. Forcing a certain bitrate is fine, but at that point you might as well just use CBR as doing so defeats the purpose of VBR.

QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) *
And I've been lurking here since 2007, thanks. I just rarely post. You run a tightly-moderated fascist hierarchy and are overrun with trolls and people with serious problems. I'll move to North Korea if I wanna deal with that.


FYI this kind of ranting makes you sound like you're insane.
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Posts in this topic
- Warning   Why is opus only good at 64/kbs   Jan 26 2013, 10:31
- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 09:31) So I...   Jan 26 2013, 10:51
- - LithosZA   QUOTE Ok you got me convinced that opus sounds bet...   Jan 26 2013, 12:10
- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 11:31) Also...   Jan 26 2013, 12:18
- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 06:31) Also...   Jan 26 2013, 17:29
- - greynol   I'm guessing he's in violation of TOS #12,...   Jan 26 2013, 17:44
- - Kamedo2   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:31) My h...   Jan 26 2013, 22:24
|- - DonP   QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Jan 26 2013, 16:24) Howe...   Jan 27 2013, 14:06
- - Warning   Results: CODEABC/HR Version 1.0, 6 May 2004 Testn...   Jan 26 2013, 22:56
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) WMA ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:10
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) Resu...   Jan 26 2013, 23:20
||- - Warning   QUOTE Unless I'm misunderstanding something, y...   Jan 27 2013, 00:03
||- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 23:03) Wast...   Jan 27 2013, 00:27
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:03) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 00:37
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 21:56) OGG ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:31
|- - DonP   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) I...   Jan 27 2013, 14:37
- - IgorC   Achtung! Das ist sehr gut!   Jan 26 2013, 23:05
- - IgorC   Exactly. As poll 2013 has indicated that only two ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:19
- - greynol   ...and with this discussion the troll count just i...   Jan 26 2013, 23:32
- - Warning   http://www.sendspace.com/file/x4ec7d AAC and opus...   Jan 27 2013, 01:07
|- - Nick.C   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 00:07) .......   Jan 27 2013, 01:14
||- - Warning   QUOTE (Nick.C @ Jan 27 2013, 01:14) QUOTE...   Jan 27 2013, 01:26
||- - greynol   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:26) I...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 00:07) You ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:23
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 19:07) EDIT...   Jan 27 2013, 01:24
||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 01:24) I t...   Jan 27 2013, 01:34
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 19:34) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 01:44
|||- - NullC   This thread is generally awesome. I mostly _expec...   Mar 2 2013, 01:22
||- - db1989   Whether or not Iím being automatically ignored her...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 02:34) The ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jan 26 2013, 19:50)...   Jan 27 2013, 02:13
|- - Seren   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 08:07) AAC ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:33
- - greynol   @Chris: That's not the point. We don't ju...   Jan 27 2013, 02:14
- - Warning   @seren I don't use 32 kb/s for music, but I...   Jan 27 2013, 02:26
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 20:26) @sar...   Jan 27 2013, 02:37
||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 02:37) I d...   Jan 27 2013, 03:03
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 21:03) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 03:19
|||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 03:19) Tha...   Jan 27 2013, 06:23
|||- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 02:23) So w...   Jan 27 2013, 14:07
||- - greynol   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:03) AAC ...   Jan 27 2013, 03:49
|- - C.R.Helmrich   Good morning, QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, ...   Jan 27 2013, 13:00
|- - greynol   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jan 27 2013, 04:00)...   Jan 27 2013, 14:57
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 27 2013, 14:57) Ok g...   Jan 27 2013, 15:10
- - greynol   TOS 8 and 2. Your posting style (it is painfully ...   Jan 27 2013, 06:52
- - [JAZ]   I was tempted to reply to this thread yesterday bu...   Jan 27 2013, 09:46
- - db1989   It didnít take long for the nose-thumbing tantrum ...   Jan 27 2013, 12:43
- - greynol   You better go back and re-read. My Blade comment w...   Jan 27 2013, 15:17
- - Omicron   My encoded AAC is much worse than yours. And that ...   Feb 21 2013, 17:21
- - Warrior_   I'm posting to announce I've done ABX list...   Mar 1 2013, 22:32
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Warrior_ @ Mar 1 2013, 13:32) Abou...   Mar 2 2013, 02:15
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warrior_ @ Mar 1 2013, 18:32) Nero...   Mar 2 2013, 20:39
- - db1989   Sup Warning. Bye Warning. P.S. I hope the terribl...   Mar 1 2013, 23:17
- - IgorC   How can they compare audio files by images which w...   Mar 2 2013, 03:03
- - db1989   Part of me would like to enumerate all the ways in...   Mar 2 2013, 03:10
- - splice   Woo. I could feel the hairs growing on the palms o...   Mar 2 2013, 11:18
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (splice @ Mar 2 2013, 10:18) I unde...   Mar 4 2013, 20:24
- - splice   Thank you for the explanation. I've noticed si...   Mar 4 2013, 21:06


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