I'm using Tag&Rename, and with my mp3 files there's no problem with giving album art tag (so my Rockbox shows me album art when I listen to them). How to set those tags in Ogg Vorbis (or FLAC) files? Is it even possible?
Thanks.
Full Version: Album art in Ogg Vorbis?
gzip the image data and base64 it, but nothing supports displaying that afaik right now, so right now there's no way
It needs the creators (even if vorbis were not forthcoming, then atleast FLAC to say this is the way for it to become a standard). FLAC and ogg are one of the few formats that do not support album art...
>gzip the image data and base64 it
Why gzip? png and jpg are as small you can get the files.
>gzip the image data and base64 it
Why gzip? png and jpg are as small you can get the files.
I think the designers of Vorbis Comment decides that album art should always be in a separate file... which makes sense actually; why should embed the same picture in 15 tracks coming from the same album?
That said, the workaround is yes, by Base64-ing the image file and push it into a custom tag... maybe we can have an unofficial standard here? What should the tag be called? Later perhaps the maker of album-art scanners can scan for this tag within Vorbis Comments.
That said, the workaround is yes, by Base64-ing the image file and push it into a custom tag... maybe we can have an unofficial standard here? What should the tag be called? Later perhaps the maker of album-art scanners can scan for this tag within Vorbis Comments.
>picture in 15 tracks coming from the same album?
Right, the average FLAC file might be 25MB, a png album art could be 10KB...padding on most tag formats (at the front of the file) are almost as large as album art.
Right, the average FLAC file might be 25MB, a png album art could be 10KB...padding on most tag formats (at the front of the file) are almost as large as album art.
If you create your own compilation, separate .jpg files as album art won't work. Hence the need to embed them into the audio files.
It'd be nice if the standard for album art would be to only read it from the first track of an album, or if tags could reference tags in other files.
Then again like Spoon says, it's not much. Unless you have the odd Marilyn Manson CD with 99 empty tracks....
I think it's a shortsighted to omit art support as a design decision, what about streaming, or offering an album as a single vorbis file with chapters for download?
Then again like Spoon says, it's not much. Unless you have the odd Marilyn Manson CD with 99 empty tracks....
I think it's a shortsighted to omit art support as a design decision, what about streaming, or offering an album as a single vorbis file with chapters for download?
QUOTE(spoon @ Sep 17 2006, 17:42) 
>picture in 15 tracks coming from the same album?
Right, the average FLAC file might be 25MB, a png album art could be 10KB...padding on most tag formats (at the front of the file) are almost as large as album art.
Right, the average FLAC file might be 25MB, a png album art could be 10KB...padding on most tag formats (at the front of the file) are almost as large as album art.
QUOTE(guruboolez @ Sep 17 2006, 18:40)
If you create your own compilation, separate .jpg files as album art won't work. Hence the need to embed them into the audio files.
Hmm, you both have a point here.
That said, I would rather have a separate, high-resolution album arts (i.e. BIG files) in a specific folder, and instruct the player (i.e. foobar2000 with albumart plugin) to seek the album art in that folder.
QUOTE(HbG @ Sep 18 2006, 05:05)
----snip----
I think it's a shortsighted to omit art support as a design decision, what about streaming, or offering an album as a single vorbis file with chapters for download?
----snip----
I agree with you. I do not think there is anything wrong in allowing the user to choose whether album art is to be used or not. This kind of inflexible attitude will almost certainly result in users trying to find hacks and ultimately the project ends up fragmented. I certainly do not wish to see that happen as it is such a good format. On the one hand, the developers talk about making the format popular, yet on the other hand, they continue to be inflexible regarding an issue which is quite simple to resolve and which could broaden usage.
@pepoluan: Having an album art tag does not mean that you have to necessarily use it. You can still use foobar to bring your high-res artwork. However, it would make sense using it on a portable where the display is going to be small and you would like to make maximum use of the available space. 10kb or so per track is not a bad trade-off. Like I said earlier, the issue is quite easy to resolve: Enable usage of the album art tag and let the user decide.
writemars
Nooooooooo.... Album art is meant to be muxed in. There's code in the Xiph SVN repository for muxing in MIDI, MNG (and PNG), IIRC.
Ogg (Vorbis, Ogg FLAC, and Speex) have always supported album art. It just hasn't caught on.
PS. It's even in the FAQ.
http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#container
Ogg (Vorbis, Ogg FLAC, and Speex) have always supported album art. It just hasn't caught on.
PS. It's even in the FAQ.
http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#container
QUOTE
Can I bundle Vorbis and another media type (like text lyrics or pictures) in the same file?
Yes. The Ogg container format was designed to allow different media types to be multiplexed together; Theora will be mixed with Vorbis audio in an Ogg container to encode movies.
In addition, FLAC can be embedded in Ogg and some preliminary work has been done to put MNG and MIDI content into Ogg files as well.Experimental code is available in the ogg-tools module in the Xiph.org CVS repository. Programmers working on such extensions can discuss issues and questions on the vorbis-dev mailing list.
Yes. The Ogg container format was designed to allow different media types to be multiplexed together; Theora will be mixed with Vorbis audio in an Ogg container to encode movies.
In addition, FLAC can be embedded in Ogg and some preliminary work has been done to put MNG and MIDI content into Ogg files as well.Experimental code is available in the ogg-tools module in the Xiph.org CVS repository. Programmers working on such extensions can discuss issues and questions on the vorbis-dev mailing list.
Had a look in cvs (ogg-tools) and dev list, could not see any reference to embedded pictures. Can find the Midi stream, nothing on images...
I'm sure there used to be code for that, but I haven't looked.
There's some newer code at /experimental/giles/mng/ in the repository, IIRC.
There's some newer code at /experimental/giles/mng/ in the repository, IIRC.
Thanks there seems to be something there, embedding MNG and PNG.
QUOTE(pepoluan @ Sep 17 2006, 07:52)
why should embed the same picture in 15 tracks coming from the same album?
You're right, but if i have just 1 file with a whole album ?
I'm really interested in embedding covers, lyrics, etc... any advice ?
J. River Media Center has been able to embed cover art to Ogg Vorbis files for years. I suppose their system is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. I added a sample to my "APEv2 cover art" samples upload thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=40860
CODE
COVERARTMIME=image/jpeg
COVERART=/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAHgAA/+4ADkFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAf/ bAIQAEAsLCwwLEAwMEBcPDQ8XGxQQEBQbHxcXFxcXHx4XGhoaGhceHiMlJyUjHi8vMzMvL0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQAERDw8RExE
VEhIVFBEUERQaFBYWFBomGhocGhomMCMeHh4eIzArLicnJy4rNTUwMDU1QEA/QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA/8AAEQgAUABQAwEiAAIRAQMRAf/ EAIQAAAIDAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAQMGBAIHAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgEDEAACAQQAAwUHBAIDAAAAAAABAgMAEQQFITE
SQWGBIgZRcZGhscET4TJictEUgpKiEQACAQMCBQUBAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIRIUExQlFxgYIDYbHBMkNy/ 9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD6BRRUMyqpZiAoFyTwAAoCaKgEEXHEHkamgCiiigCiiooCaKgEEAg3B4gipoArKeqNlPlZKaPB4vIQJrdpP
JL+wc2rS5U642NLkP8AthRnP/EXrMejsVsnJytvP5pCxRG/m/mkPzFVHMuBMsLiP8KGPUayOLJyOpIFs80hsBc8hfs7BXaCCAQbg8QRWR9STz7Tbw6TGNlQj8h7OsjqJPci/ etLDHj63CSIMRDAoUFjcmjVk3qzU70wjqopOdpm5DEYkPlHbYsfHsFA2mbjsBlw+U9tip8Ow1Jo3JAFzwA5mufJjXNw2SKSwkHld
TwP6e2pcQ5+Iyq145Ra44EH9KV6aaTGypNdN7SU/sOdveONXGNU5J3jenoRJ3SatK1T1pcySORtdkcHS/4793NfuKdUj3sRgyIc6Lg1wGP8l4r8qcxSLLEkq/tdQw8Ret8iTpNbteZkG1WL26chZ6ocpossrzIQeDOqn61X6SjVNFAw5yNIze/rZfotXepY2l0eWq8wqt4I6ufpVHpCZZNHEg5wu6N7y3X9GqdncVv6Cv0sP9ne5+Y/mI6yp9hkf/ApxtmabKgxAbA2J97G3ypN6cb/AE/UmdhPw/J1hO8o3Uv/ AJuac7dHiyIcxBcLYH3qeofGk9eghp1J3O4wfTetWeVGZCwjiiS3U7EE8z3C5NGl3OD6k1zzxRsqhjFJG9upWAB4Edx4GrNrqMH1
Br1x8xXEbFZEZT0ujW5i4I5EjiKNTqMHQYDY2GrmMEyOzHqkdrczYAchbgKkop1JaHLnxCbgXPipt86q2g/Bt8adeHV0Fu+zdJ+VXahHlyJsxhYNcD3seo/Cqdofz7jHgXj0dAbxPUflXTxfZ/y6nPy/Vc1Q7d2gfXSHtQqw+IH3r1p369dCTzAK/BiK87twuukHa5VR/wBgftXrToU1sIPMgt8WJFPy7/gfr2fJ1zRJNC8Li6SKUYdzCxrJelZ3120ydPkmxc+S/ AF09n9l41sKzHqvUysU2+FcTwWMvTzsvFXHev091THKeSpYawU+qsOfDzYd5icCpUSn2MvBSe5h5T+taXEnXOw4p2jKCVQxjkHEH
3GqtZPLna6KXMh/G8i+eNgLN/ K3sPPjXbRu1Hg1K9eIUUUVJpTNIuLjPIqXWMFuhBSrS48k+RJsZ+bEhO8nmR3DlTqqMqRsbEd4I+ooPKg4AeHdVxlROKV5WqTKN1
J6RvQVbyY5GRDgRcWuC39m4L8BTqKNYokiX9qKFHgLUp02DIXbPybmSS5jvz83NvGnNb5GlSC268zIJusnu9gooormWFFFFAFFFF
AFFFFARU0UUB//2Q==
MEDIAJUKEBOX:TOOL NAME=Media Center
MEDIAJUKEBOX:TOOL VERSION=11.1.197
GENRE=Funk
MEDIAJUKEBOX:DATE=38718
DATE=2006
TITLE=A 4s sample for testing embedded cover art
TRACKNUMBER=1
COMMENT=a nice comment
ARTIST=Who Knows
ALBUM=The Test Album
COVERART=/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAHgAA/+4ADkFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAf/ bAIQAEAsLCwwLEAwMEBcPDQ8XGxQQEBQbHxcXFxcXHx4XGhoaGhceHiMlJyUjHi8vMzMvL0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQAERDw8RExE
VEhIVFBEUERQaFBYWFBomGhocGhomMCMeHh4eIzArLicnJy4rNTUwMDU1QEA/QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA/8AAEQgAUABQAwEiAAIRAQMRAf/ EAIQAAAIDAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAQMGBAIHAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgEDEAACAQQAAwUHBAIDAAAAAAABAgMAEQQFITE
SQWGBIgZRcZGhscET4TJictEUgpKiEQACAQMCBQUBAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIRIUExQlFxgYIDYbHBMkNy/ 9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD6BRRUMyqpZiAoFyTwAAoCaKgEEXHEHkamgCiiigCiiooCaKgEEAg3B4gipoArKeqNlPlZKaPB4vIQJrdpP
JL+wc2rS5U642NLkP8AthRnP/EXrMejsVsnJytvP5pCxRG/m/mkPzFVHMuBMsLiP8KGPUayOLJyOpIFs80hsBc8hfs7BXaCCAQbg8QRWR9STz7Tbw6TGNlQj8h7OsjqJPci/ etLDHj63CSIMRDAoUFjcmjVk3qzU70wjqopOdpm5DEYkPlHbYsfHsFA2mbjsBlw+U9tip8Ow1Jo3JAFzwA5mufJjXNw2SKSwkHld
TwP6e2pcQ5+Iyq145Ra44EH9KV6aaTGypNdN7SU/sOdveONXGNU5J3jenoRJ3SatK1T1pcySORtdkcHS/4793NfuKdUj3sRgyIc6Lg1wGP8l4r8qcxSLLEkq/tdQw8Ret8iTpNbteZkG1WL26chZ6ocpossrzIQeDOqn61X6SjVNFAw5yNIze/rZfotXepY2l0eWq8wqt4I6ufpVHpCZZNHEg5wu6N7y3X9GqdncVv6Cv0sP9ne5+Y/mI6yp9hkf/ApxtmabKgxAbA2J97G3ypN6cb/AE/UmdhPw/J1hO8o3Uv/ AJuac7dHiyIcxBcLYH3qeofGk9eghp1J3O4wfTetWeVGZCwjiiS3U7EE8z3C5NGl3OD6k1zzxRsqhjFJG9upWAB4Edx4GrNrqMH1
Br1x8xXEbFZEZT0ujW5i4I5EjiKNTqMHQYDY2GrmMEyOzHqkdrczYAchbgKkop1JaHLnxCbgXPipt86q2g/Bt8adeHV0Fu+zdJ+VXahHlyJsxhYNcD3seo/Cqdofz7jHgXj0dAbxPUflXTxfZ/y6nPy/Vc1Q7d2gfXSHtQqw+IH3r1p369dCTzAK/BiK87twuukHa5VR/wBgftXrToU1sIPMgt8WJFPy7/gfr2fJ1zRJNC8Li6SKUYdzCxrJelZ3120ydPkmxc+S/ AF09n9l41sKzHqvUysU2+FcTwWMvTzsvFXHev091THKeSpYawU+qsOfDzYd5icCpUSn2MvBSe5h5T+taXEnXOw4p2jKCVQxjkHEH
3GqtZPLna6KXMh/G8i+eNgLN/ K3sPPjXbRu1Hg1K9eIUUUVJpTNIuLjPIqXWMFuhBSrS48k+RJsZ+bEhO8nmR3DlTqqMqRsbEd4I+ooPKg4AeHdVxlROKV5WqTKN1
J6RvQVbyY5GRDgRcWuC39m4L8BTqKNYokiX9qKFHgLUp02DIXbPybmSS5jvz83NvGnNb5GlSC268zIJusnu9gooormWFFFFAFFFF
AFFFFARU0UUB//2Q==
MEDIAJUKEBOX:TOOL NAME=Media Center
MEDIAJUKEBOX:TOOL VERSION=11.1.197
GENRE=Funk
MEDIAJUKEBOX:DATE=38718
DATE=2006
TITLE=A 4s sample for testing embedded cover art
TRACKNUMBER=1
COMMENT=a nice comment
ARTIST=Who Knows
ALBUM=The Test Album
Maybe base64 encoding.
Yep, it's base64. It's the HA logo. 
QUOTE(kjoonlee @ Oct 1 2006, 09:06)
Yep, it's base64. It's the HA logo.
Hi do you know what applications use the base64 method (this seems a simple and elegant method) ?
Ive more or less completed a Java mp3/id3 tag library (www.jthink.net/jaudiotagger) and I'm now trying to support Ogg/Vorbis. I looked up the faq regarding adding images as a separate muxed file, and its certainly not clear that this is the preferred method for album art. It certainly seems alot more complicated than the base64 method and unless any players actually support it would be a complete waste of time implementing. The store image art in the same folder option is not very portable, especially if you want to move files to a hardware player that might not pick up image files. Even if the hardware player doesn't support displaying image art in ogg currently, it may do later with a firmware upgrade.
After the prior discussion, and based on your points, I do believe the best way is to embed a base64-encoded .png file into the Comments.
QUOTE(pepoluan @ Aug 6 2007, 11:26)
After the prior discussion, and based on your points, I do believe the best way is to embed a base64-encoded .png file into the Comments.
Cool, so what software is doing this already ?
QUOTE(paultaylor @ Aug 6 2007, 14:38)
Cool, so what software is doing this already ?
AudioShell supports cover art in ogg and speex files (base64 encoded).
Which tag name does it use? Any other software doing this?
QUOTE(stigc @ Aug 6 2007, 16:36)
Which tag name does it use? Any other software doing this?
I just tried it, it adds two fields (seem to be the same as fields discussed earlier), the mimetype and the base64 fields:
COVERARTMIME=image/jpeg
COVERART=..................
works nicely actually.
I wonder is the COVERARTMIME field mandatory, I think an intelligent Image Decoder should be to work out the image type from the image header in the image data (once it had reversed the base64)
QUOTE
Cool, so what software is doing this already ?
QUOTE
Which tag name does it use? Any other software doing this?
As I mentioned earlier, J River Media Center has been able to do this for years (I think they added this feature in 2002).
It may still be the only player program that can show such cover art automatically as file & album thumbnails and in a display visualization during playback.
However, I wouldn't recommended mass storing image files in the Vorbis comments without testing the system with all intended SW & HW players. Not all players work correctly when an ogg file has this kind of big comment frame.
Ok, I have this working now . Flac files also use VorbisComment, so is it ok to use this method for flac files as well?
QUOTE(paultaylor @ Aug 8 2007, 18:43)
Ok, I have this working now . Flac files also use VorbisComment, so is it ok to use this method for flac files as well?
No. FLAC was added native support for embedding album art with version 1.1.3. The PICTURE block is already supported by a few programs, including MP3tag 2.38 and Audio Shell.
QUOTE(Alex B @ Aug 7 2007, 19:18)
However, I wouldn't recommended mass storing image files in the Vorbis comments without testing the system with all intended SW & HW players. Not all players work correctly when an ogg file has this kind of big comment frame.
Yes, my library falls foul of this as does Winamp. From the Ogg documentation I think if the total size of the Vorbis Comment is greater than 64 kb it will need to span multiple Ogg Pages. And in both these cases it expects all the Vorbis Comment to be on one page. Im going to fix my library but I think the key thing is to only add quite small images
QUOTE(pepoluan @ Sep 17 2006, 07:52)
why should embed the same picture in 15 tracks coming from the same album?
...but someone could have an image file or chained ones !
Foobar seems to handle these art comments just fine as far as still playing the tracks and displaying the other tags properly, but...is there any way to get Foobar to actually display these embedded files?
Hello everybody.
Foobar seems to handle these art comments just fine as far as still playing the tracks and displaying the other tags properly, but...is there any way to get Foobar to actually display these embedded files?
I have more or less the same question...
In fact, is there anything at all that will display the base-64 bundled images?
So far I was succesful tagging some of my albums with Tag&Rename which does a good job IMHO with the embedding of the album art.
Also their shell thingy (whatever its called -audioshell?) shows the art (which is to be expected).
But nothing else
Only MediaMonkey v3 beta does it
But its beta and who knows how much more months years or centuries till stable.
Anything else out there that can actually look inside the vorbis comments?
So far all plugins and mediaplayers I tried make it the simple and boring way that has been available since World War II - look for *.jpg image inside the folder... not quite impressive.
QUOTE(Admiral Oggbar @ Sep 12 2007, 14:26)
Foobar seems to handle these art comments just fine as far as still playing the tracks and displaying the other tags properly, but...is there any way to get Foobar to actually display these embedded files?
I have more or less the same question...
In fact, is there anything at all that will display the base-64 bundled images?
So far I was succesful tagging some of my albums with Tag&Rename which does a good job IMHO with the embedding of the album art.
Also their shell thingy (whatever its called -audioshell?) shows the art (which is to be expected).
But nothing else
Only MediaMonkey v3 beta does it
But its beta and who knows how much more months years or centuries till stable.
Anything else out there that can actually look inside the vorbis comments?
So far all plugins and mediaplayers I tried make it the simple and boring way that has been available since World War II - look for *.jpg image inside the folder... not quite impressive.
QUOTE(Audio N00b @ Sep 17 2007, 03:29)
Anything else out there that can actually look inside the vorbis comments?
In case you missed it jaikoz now does it , but this is a media organiser rather than media player.
Thanks paultaylor.
While I'm not thinking about using it, at least makes me happy to see embedding the art might not be a lost cause after all.
While I'm not thinking about using it, at least makes me happy to see embedding the art might not be a lost cause after all.
Just to note, whatever method Jaikoz uses for tagging OGG files works with the new Default UI in foobar. 
Ok, let's make a step forward:
I succesfully embedded covers in OGG with AudioShell but PHP Easy Downloader (wich uses getid3 to read tags) can't extract it.
Can someone help me ?
I succesfully embedded covers in OGG with AudioShell but PHP Easy Downloader (wich uses getid3 to read tags) can't extract it.
Can someone help me ?
i wanted to let you know that there (again) have been lively discussions about the ogg vorbis album cover art issue at the ogg vorbis developer mailing lists.
the consensus is to find an official standard on how to embed (or link) album cover art pictures within ogg vorbis files.
you can help to establish a standard by downloading and testing a provided sample file. please check this ogg vorbis wiki page for details.
thanks!
the consensus is to find an official standard on how to embed (or link) album cover art pictures within ogg vorbis files.
you can help to establish a standard by downloading and testing a provided sample file. please check this ogg vorbis wiki page for details.
thanks!
The first post of this thread is 2 years old...
Whilst the wheels of vorbis comments standards are revolving at full speed they should also define:
track count, disc count, album artist
(these 3 have unoffical standards as used by many programs with flac such as TotalDiscs totaltracks and albumartist).
Whilst the wheels of vorbis comments standards are revolving at full speed they should also define:
track count, disc count, album artist
(these 3 have unoffical standards as used by many programs with flac such as TotalDiscs totaltracks and albumartist).
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.