I´ve read this sound card can pass DTS-CD, and 44 khz AC3.
For music: is it the best ?
Full Version: M-Audio Revolution 7.1
I too would be interested in hearing some actual experiences.
Haven't tried DTS-CD or AC3, and it definitely isn't the *best* soundcard, but probably the best *value*. I would definitely recommend getting one unless you want to spend a lot more money.
QUOTE(Chun-Yu @ Jun 25 2003 - 12:13 PM)
I would definitely recommend getting one unless you want to spend a lot more money.
...or if you play a lot of games and want EAX effects enabled. The review at Tech-Report showed that a fast computer can still take a 10% performance hit from using the Revolution instead of the Audigy 2 in games with 3D sound effects. Though I cringe at the idea of recommending anything from Creative, since my past experience with their products and tech support have been poor, you should take the Revolution's poor game performance into consideration before making a purchase.
Maybe new drivers for the Revolution have alleviated some of its performance problems...?
QUOTE(SometimesWarrior @ Jun 26 2003 - 02:47 AM)
... you should take the Revolution's poor game performance into consideration before making a purchase.
You're in the wrong forum... Anyway, Revos can co-exist nicely with Creative 'sound' cards - one has to get blue screens, doesn't he?
As to Revo's performance, if properly set up it can match a pretty good A/V receiver.
More info about revo here, in the HTPC section: http://www.avsforum.com
Sound quality seems to be very similar to usual semi-pro cards, such as M-Audio Audiophile, Echo Mia, Terratec EWX24/96, etc.
Said that, I think once you reach this level of output quality (and possibly lower), you get into perceptual transparency. Possibly also true for the input quality.
About gaming performance on the Revo, I don't think it can be fixed, since all effects processing must be done by software since it lacks any hardware processing.
The only other drawback of this card is some remaining driver issues when used in hometheater configuration (bass management and things like that), and that the spdif output doesn't work with ASIO. But these are planned to be fixed.
Said that, I think once you reach this level of output quality (and possibly lower), you get into perceptual transparency. Possibly also true for the input quality.
About gaming performance on the Revo, I don't think it can be fixed, since all effects processing must be done by software since it lacks any hardware processing.
The only other drawback of this card is some remaining driver issues when used in hometheater configuration (bass management and things like that), and that the spdif output doesn't work with ASIO. But these are planned to be fixed.
QUOTE(SometimesWarrior @ Jun 25 2003 - 09:47 PM)
...or if you play a lot of games and want EAX effects enabled. The review at Tech-Report showed that a fast computer can still take a 10% performance hit from using the Revolution instead of the Audigy 2 in games with 3D sound effects. Though I cringe at the idea of recommending anything from Creative, since my past experience with their products and tech support have been poor, you should take the Revolution's poor game performance into consideration before making a purchase.
Maybe new drivers for the Revolution have alleviated some of its performance problems...?
Maybe new drivers for the Revolution have alleviated some of its performance problems...?
Yep - I was just answering sxz's question about music.
I believe they got the bass management.. don't know about the ASIO problems..
They released a driver update a few weeks ago. I had stopped following things and don't know what all it fixes.. But most reviews you probably read would predate the driver release...
Still thinking about getting one, though I've started playing a few games again after a long time away! I've heard of people getting a CL card and a Revo working in the same system.. it happens sometime.
Still probably the best bang for buck out there..
They released a driver update a few weeks ago. I had stopped following things and don't know what all it fixes.. But most reviews you probably read would predate the driver release...
Still thinking about getting one, though I've started playing a few games again after a long time away! I've heard of people getting a CL card and a Revo working in the same system.. it happens sometime.
Still probably the best bang for buck out there..
Good card, baaad drivers, annoying control panel. This is M-Audio's debut in the consumer sound card market, so maybe things will improve, ja.
Why not use another card based on the same chipset (VIA Envy24HT)? Like AudioTrak Prodigy 7.1? Framerate loss is supposed to be much less than the M-Audio.....
http://www.audiotrak.net/images/product_prodigy7.1.jpg
or TerraTec Aureon 7.1 Space?
http://productsen.terratec.net/modules/My_...eon_space_L.jpg
http://www.audiotrak.net/images/product_prodigy7.1.jpg
or TerraTec Aureon 7.1 Space?
http://productsen.terratec.net/modules/My_...eon_space_L.jpg
Do a search on Prodigy, and that might tell you why it may not be a better solution. If could work perfectly for you, or it might be a nightmare. Depends on your system configuration.
Mine works pretty good now. But I had to change my operating system to achieve that.
The card has a lot of potential. It's not quite there yet.
Edit: The graphics aren't necessary.
Mine works pretty good now. But I had to change my operating system to achieve that.
The card has a lot of potential. It's not quite there yet.
Edit: The graphics aren't necessary.
I recently bought the Aureon Sky and I enjoy nice and noise-free sound. The Aureon captures way less noise from the inside of my computer than my previous card.
Please note that the only difference between the Aureon Space and the Aureon Sky is 1 stereo channel. The sound chip is the same and so is the sound quality. So you should only shell out the extra cash for the Aureon Space if you have (or plan to buy) a 7.1 speaker setup that requires 4 stereo outputs. You also need Windows XP sp1 to use all of the channels. Under Windows 2000 you can only use the first three channels (so the Space behaves just like the Sky under "lesser" OSs).
The Aureon cards have a nice feature: the first stereo output has a software toggle-able (?) headphone amplifier.
The drivers are mediocre though. The "Control Panel" used to adjust volume and other settings of the card crashes every other start. You need to do a restart if you want to use it, but maybe it's just my PC acting up.
I've had dozens of crashes after installing the card. It seems though that when I installed the hardware, I must have nudged my ram a little which made it unstable. I found the solution just by accident after I had allready reinstalled half of my system.
But it probably wasn't the fault of the card.
Please note that the only difference between the Aureon Space and the Aureon Sky is 1 stereo channel. The sound chip is the same and so is the sound quality. So you should only shell out the extra cash for the Aureon Space if you have (or plan to buy) a 7.1 speaker setup that requires 4 stereo outputs. You also need Windows XP sp1 to use all of the channels. Under Windows 2000 you can only use the first three channels (so the Space behaves just like the Sky under "lesser" OSs).
The Aureon cards have a nice feature: the first stereo output has a software toggle-able (?) headphone amplifier.
The drivers are mediocre though. The "Control Panel" used to adjust volume and other settings of the card crashes every other start. You need to do a restart if you want to use it, but maybe it's just my PC acting up.
I've had dozens of crashes after installing the card. It seems though that when I installed the hardware, I must have nudged my ram a little which made it unstable. I found the solution just by accident after I had allready reinstalled half of my system.
But it probably wasn't the fault of the card.
I'm going to buy Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space... (suposedly will arrive at Tuesday)
The price difference here between it and 5.1 Sky is just 6 zl (<2$)
I won't use that two additional channels right now, but maybe in the future...
The price difference here between it and 5.1 Sky is just 6 zl (<2$)
I won't use that two additional channels right now, but maybe in the future...
I'm going to buy a M-Audio Revolution, I have the impression M-Audio products and support are more reliable.
BTW, I don't think Aureon Sky/Space or Prodigy 7.1 can be better in respect to games than the Revo, since all them have to deal with sound effects by means of software processing, since none of them have built-in hardware processing.
BTW, I don't think Aureon Sky/Space or Prodigy 7.1 can be better in respect to games than the Revo, since all them have to deal with sound effects by means of software processing, since none of them have built-in hardware processing.
Prodigy was tested by Maximum PC in a recent issue, there really is less framerate loss. It beat the M-Audio every time, and even beat the Audigy 2 in both the UT2003 tests (hardware and hardware +EAX). They attributed the difference to drivers, and Audiotrak also told them that their card uses the absolute latest "Sensaura 3D sound engine" whatever that means.
If you want a low frame rate hit and a good 24bit card, investigate the Envy24 (non-HT) options, like the Terratec DMX6Fire LT. While these cards usually only offer 5.1 output, they do support 24/96 IO and feature hardware Direct Sound.
In many circumstances, you will not notice or get a frame rate drop with the Revolution or other 24HT cards because the game is being played at such a high resolution (1024,1280, etc) that the game is thoroughly video card limited.
If you play your games largely at low resolution, then a frame rate counter will give you an obvious frame rate loss. But is 200FPS at 640*480 really much worse than 250FPS at the same res?
Firingsquad (gamer site) review of the Revolution
In many circumstances, you will not notice or get a frame rate drop with the Revolution or other 24HT cards because the game is being played at such a high resolution (1024,1280, etc) that the game is thoroughly video card limited.
If you play your games largely at low resolution, then a frame rate counter will give you an obvious frame rate loss. But is 200FPS at 640*480 really much worse than 250FPS at the same res?
Firingsquad (gamer site) review of the Revolution
There are some little things you may want to consider. Besides the Directsound issues, the card lacks digital input. The digital output is coaxial, and there are no internal connectors (no CD Audio/analog or digital in).
On the other hand the chip itself should not bad at all, but note how VIA is involved. I suggest reading this review
I also read that actually, the card (or is it the drivers?) do support 16 channel hardware mixing using DirectSound. But i don't know, i use the built in Realtek ALC650, and don't use the hardware mixing in bf1942 (a VERY taxing game, in the three aspects of: cpu, video and audio). I like the idea of a cheap 24/96khz card though, i want to do some analogue captures (from vynil, etc) and it would be best than this onboard cheapo Realtek right? If at least i can reduce noise levels
. The 7.1 and 192khz playback are DVD oriented features, but i don't really care much about those. I would exchange those with digital in and optical (instead of coax) support. MIDI could also be welcome But oh, the decent ones are so much expensive!!! Still, i would not mind to see those little revos onboard, for a change of 16bit/48khz...
On the other hand the chip itself should not bad at all, but note how VIA is involved. I suggest reading this review
QUOTE
Under the hood, the Revolution 7.1 is powered by ICEnsemble's Envy24HT audio chip. ICEnsemble is owned by VIA, and VIA is now marketing the several flavors of the Envy24 for different markets. The Envy24HT is the top of that line, with support for 24-bits of internal precision at 192kHz across 8 output channels.
I also read that actually, the card (or is it the drivers?) do support 16 channel hardware mixing using DirectSound. But i don't know, i use the built in Realtek ALC650, and don't use the hardware mixing in bf1942 (a VERY taxing game, in the three aspects of: cpu, video and audio). I like the idea of a cheap 24/96khz card though, i want to do some analogue captures (from vynil, etc) and it would be best than this onboard cheapo Realtek right? If at least i can reduce noise levels
. The 7.1 and 192khz playback are DVD oriented features, but i don't really care much about those. I would exchange those with digital in and optical (instead of coax) support. MIDI could also be welcome But oh, the decent ones are so much expensive!!! Still, i would not mind to see those little revos onboard, for a change of 16bit/48khz...
The Tech-Report did their Revolution review using inexpensive Philips multimedia speakers for listening and did no objective testing whatsoever, despite the fact that RightMark is totally free.
I'd suggest looking somewhere else for a definitive sound card review; Digit-life is typically very thorough.
Coaxial digital output is no worse than optical (despite a common misconception about relative jitter levels) unless you want to connect it to something that has only optical-in and dont want to buy a converter. Coaxial digital cable can also typically be found for less money than optical interconnect. Less money and identical (bit for bit) output? Good thing IMO
The Revolution sounds so much better than the ALC650 CODEC, it's not even funny. A large part of the benefits with compressed music come from the 24-bit capable decoders, like MAD for winamp or Foobar2000.
The only reason Via "is involved" is because they bought ICEnsemble, the designer of the Envy chips.
I'd suggest looking somewhere else for a definitive sound card review; Digit-life is typically very thorough.
Coaxial digital output is no worse than optical (despite a common misconception about relative jitter levels) unless you want to connect it to something that has only optical-in and dont want to buy a converter. Coaxial digital cable can also typically be found for less money than optical interconnect. Less money and identical (bit for bit) output? Good thing IMO
The Revolution sounds so much better than the ALC650 CODEC, it's not even funny. A large part of the benefits with compressed music come from the 24-bit capable decoders, like MAD for winamp or Foobar2000.
The only reason Via "is involved" is because they bought ICEnsemble, the designer of the Envy chips.
QUOTE(Artemis3 @ Jun 28 2003 - 10:51 PM)
I like the idea of a cheap 24/96khz card though, i want to do some analogue captures (from vynil, etc) and it would be best than this onboard cheapo Realtek right? If at least i can reduce noise levels . The 7.1 and 192khz playback are DVD oriented features, but i don't really care much about those. I would exchange those with digital in and optical (instead of coax) support. MIDI could also be welcome
. The 7.1 and 192khz playback are DVD oriented features, but i don't really care much about those. I would exchange those with digital in and optical (instead of coax) support. MIDI could also be welcome It seems that the M-Audio Audiophile would be your card, except that the digital I/O is coaxial, not optical. However, I prefer it that way.
QUOTE
But oh, the decent ones are so much expensive!!!
The Audiophile is just $50 more expensive.
BTW, my Audiophile, that uses the older Envy24 chipset, doen't support hardware acceleration either, nor any kind of game effects processing (sensaura and such).
The Audiophile is reputedly a great card, especially for inexpensive recording and monitoring purposes, but it is limited to stereo if using analog-out (AFAIK).
Any 5.1-out will have to be done with the aid of an external decoder, AFAIK. This means that multichannel gaming surround sound is nonexistant despite the fact that the card uses the original Envy24.
Supposedly, the analog-in gain boosting abilities of the Audiophile make it ideally suited to home Analog to Digital transfers, like records.
For referenced, the Audiophile review from D-L is right here.
The Revolution article is here, and the Terratec Aureon Space review is here.
Any 5.1-out will have to be done with the aid of an external decoder, AFAIK. This means that multichannel gaming surround sound is nonexistant despite the fact that the card uses the original Envy24.
Supposedly, the analog-in gain boosting abilities of the Audiophile make it ideally suited to home Analog to Digital transfers, like records.
For referenced, the Audiophile review from D-L is right here.
The Revolution article is here, and the Terratec Aureon Space review is here.
QUOTE(Audible! @ Jun 29 2003 - 02:52 AM)
Any 5.1-out will have to be done with the aid of an external decoder, AFAIK. This means that multichannel gaming surround sound is nonexistant despite the fact that the card uses the original Envy24.
Yeah, that's true.
QUOTE
Supposedly, the analog-in gain boosting abilities of the Audiophile make it ideally suited to home Analog to Digital transfers, like records.
Well, the Audiophile has no gain boosting abilities when recording, just optional digital attenuation.
QUOTE
Well, the Audiophile has no gain boosting abilities when recording, just optional digital attenuation
Good to know. I'm not sure where I got the idea it did
Also, I neglected to mention that the Audiophile has a strict 24/96 limit (I or O like all Envy24 non-HT), while the 24HT-based Revolution is capable of full 24/192 playback, which I believe is the highest res. supported by DVD-A.
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