I have read many posts on this subject and from what I can work out archiving with the 'Copy Image and Create Cue Sheet' is the preferred method. However, is the 'Test and Copy Selected Tracks' with the 'Create Cue Sheets - Multiple WAV Files With Gaps (NonCompliant)' ok for archiving to flac? I understand the .cue sheet is not usable for writing back to cd on any software but EAC, but that's ok.
Is there a difference between the two methods as far as collection archiving is concerned?
Full Version: EAC Cue sheets and archiving to FLAC
QUOTE(jasnic02 @ Jul 3 2003 - 02:43 PM)
...is the 'Test and Copy Selected Tracks' with the 'Create Cue Sheets - Multiple WAV Files With Gaps (NonCompliant)' ok for archiving to flac? I understand the .cue sheet is not usable for writing back to cd on any software but EAC, but that's ok....
Is there a difference between the two methods as far as collection archiving is concerned?
Is there a difference between the two methods as far as collection archiving is concerned?
This is the way I've been doing it since it's easier to go back and decode individual songs instead of having to split them out of one big *.wav file. I also use the non-compliant cue sheets because it properly puts gaps at the end of the previous track, which from what I read, is where they belong. Do a search on cue sheets in the forum and you'll find numerous threads and links as to what each type of cue sheet EAC generates does/means.
Also, some software like Burrrn and Burn At Once support burning of non-compliant cue sheets, although I recently ran into a situation with BAO where it screwed things up (Jamie said he was looking into the problem, but that was over a week ago).
Daffy
QUOTE(Daffy @ Jul 3 2003 - 08:04 PM)
it properly puts gaps at the end of the previous track, which from what I read, is where they belong
Not really: EAC calls pregaps 'gaps'. The prefix pre (PREgaps) indicates that the PREgap PREceeds the song.
From this point of view, appending gaps to the next track (and making that type of cue sheet) would be the preferred method.
However, for extracted music on PC, most people find this pregap (mostly a 2 sec 'seems-like-silence') in the beginning of a song annoying. If you click a song, you want to hear the song, and not that pause everytime... (BTW, a CD player will skip that pause/pregap when you select a track).
So, that's the reason why appending to previous track has got to be both the default and preferred method for music on harddisk.
Question: does anyone know a player that plays 'embedded cue sheets' ?
(embedded cue sheet = nice flac option for flac image + cue)
QUOTE(liekloo @ Jul 3 2003 - 03:57 PM)
Question: does anyone know a player that plays 'embedded cue sheets' ?
(embedded cue sheet = nice flac option for flac image + cue)
(embedded cue sheet = nice flac option for flac image + cue)
Foobar2000 0.7b with this plugin.
foobar now support embeded cuesheet, i must try this !
Soren
jepp i am tooooooooooooo 
B)
B)
Ok, after trying the options available with the .cue sheets, it appears the only way to get an exact replica of the original cd is with the copy image and create .cue sheet. By exact I mean comparing the two different .cue sheets before and after writing and regenerating the .cue sheet. The 'noncompliant' method does indeed give the correct time slices for the individual tracks although index-00 gets lost (is that called the lead-in?).
Also, if a cd has any 'hidden' tracks will EAC grab them using the 'copy image...' function, or is the copy range and/or registry offset tweak the only way to get them?
The fb2k plugin works well .. however, how do you view the track information since the flac embedded cuesheet strips that out? Is the embedded .cue sheet really that useful since you can keep the .cue sheet separate and use it in fb2k, thereby retaining all the track information also?
Also, if a cd has any 'hidden' tracks will EAC grab them using the 'copy image...' function, or is the copy range and/or registry offset tweak the only way to get them?
The fb2k plugin works well .. however, how do you view the track information since the flac embedded cuesheet strips that out? Is the embedded .cue sheet really that useful since you can keep the .cue sheet separate and use it in fb2k, thereby retaining all the track information also?
Quote: (stupid quoting implementation in this forum)
Ok, after trying the options available with the .cue sheets, it appears the only way to get an exact replica of the original cd is with the copy image and create .cue sheet.
>Exact replica? I did not know that would be possible with a cd-burner.
More qouteing: (and the quoting implementation is still not very functional, now is it?)
index-00 gets lost (is that called the lead-in?).
>Then it is prolly assumed to be at index 0. Which would be yet another bug in inexact audio copy.
Yet more quoting:
Also, if a cd has any 'hidden' tracks will EAC grab them using the 'copy image...' function, or is the copy range and/or registry offset tweak the only way to get them?
>Hidden tracks are lost, because data players use the toc more strictly.
What "registry offset tweak"?
Quotey:
The fb2k plugin works well .. however, how do you view the track information since the flac embedded cuesheet strips that out? Is the embedded .cue sheet really that useful since you can keep the .cue sheet separate and use it in fb2k, thereby retaining all the track information also?
>You need to use a plugin? That's what they're for, no?
Ok, after trying the options available with the .cue sheets, it appears the only way to get an exact replica of the original cd is with the copy image and create .cue sheet.
>Exact replica? I did not know that would be possible with a cd-burner.
More qouteing: (and the quoting implementation is still not very functional, now is it?)
index-00 gets lost (is that called the lead-in?).
>Then it is prolly assumed to be at index 0. Which would be yet another bug in inexact audio copy.
Yet more quoting:
Also, if a cd has any 'hidden' tracks will EAC grab them using the 'copy image...' function, or is the copy range and/or registry offset tweak the only way to get them?
>Hidden tracks are lost, because data players use the toc more strictly.
What "registry offset tweak"?
Quotey:
The fb2k plugin works well .. however, how do you view the track information since the flac embedded cuesheet strips that out? Is the embedded .cue sheet really that useful since you can keep the .cue sheet separate and use it in fb2k, thereby retaining all the track information also?
>You need to use a plugin? That's what they're for, no?
QUOTE(jasnic02 @ Jul 4 2003, 12:02 PM)
The fb2k plugin works well .. however, how do you view the track information since the flac embedded cuesheet strips that out?
The component in foobar2000 0.7 beta 13 now supports info stored the way mentioned here.
Case, has Josh added track information back into the .cue sheet that gets embedded into the .flac file? Last I read he wasn't going to retain that information in the .cue sheet but rather rely on the freedb/cddb databases? Is there another way to retain the track information?
** Edit ** Nevermind, I didn't realize the link you referenced was so recent ..
** Edit ** Nevermind, I didn't realize the link you referenced was so recent ..
Two FLAC questions I've always wanted to ask... 
( 1 ) Does Flac have something like the APL files that exist for Monkey's Audio? (FYI: APL files are small link files, representing the tracks of an audio CD image. For each track, the APL file links to the corresponding location in the Cue sheet).
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
(IMO, creating an image + APL files is "the" ripping procedure that comes closest to the original CD format with its 00/01 indexes... Hence my question)
( 2 ) One of the advantages of Flac over other lossless formats, is that the audio data can be 'fixed' in case a few bits go corrupt. My question: is this just a kind of 'patch' to make playback possible again, or is the data restored exactly?
Thanks in advance! I am really curious... B)
( 1 ) Does Flac have something like the APL files that exist for Monkey's Audio? (FYI: APL files are small link files, representing the tracks of an audio CD image. For each track, the APL file links to the corresponding location in the Cue sheet).
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
(IMO, creating an image + APL files is "the" ripping procedure that comes closest to the original CD format with its 00/01 indexes... Hence my question)
( 2 ) One of the advantages of Flac over other lossless formats, is that the audio data can be 'fixed' in case a few bits go corrupt. My question: is this just a kind of 'patch' to make playback possible again, or is the data restored exactly?
Thanks in advance! I am really curious... B)
QUOTE(liekloo @ Sep 15 2003, 10:58 AM)
( 1 ) Does Flac have something like the APL files that exist for Monkey's Audio? (FYI: APL files are small link files, representing the tracks of an audio CD image. For each track, the APL file links to the corresponding location in the Cue sheet).
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
(IMO, creating an image + APL files is "the" ripping procedure that comes closest to the original CD format with its 00/01 indexes... Hence my question)
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
(IMO, creating an image + APL files is "the" ripping procedure that comes closest to the original CD format with its 00/01 indexes... Hence my question)
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that APL is buggy and broken. I'm too lazy to search for the thread right now (I'm also at work and don't have the time), but you might want to look into the bugs before coming to this conclusion.
About Gap settings and cue sheets:
http://doc.hydrogenaudio.org/wikis/hydroge...dio/GapSettings
Some more about cue sheets:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=ST&f=20&t=4586
http://doc.hydrogenaudio.org/wikis/hydroge...dio/GapSettings
Some more about cue sheets:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=ST&f=20&t=4586
QUOTE(liekloo @ Sep 15 2003, 09:58 AM)
( 1 ) Does Flac have something like the APL files that exist for Monkey's Audio? (FYI: APL files are small link files, representing the tracks of an audio CD image. For each track, the APL file links to the corresponding location in the Cue sheet).
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
And if yes, is there any chance that there will be hardware support for this concept (of an image + APL files)
No, that's an application-level thing. For instance, foobar2000 support APL with FLAC I think. I doubt hardware players will support it because it's just a hack to get around deficiencies in most software players.
QUOTE(liekloo @ Sep 15 2003, 09:58 AM)
(IMO, creating an image + APL files is "the" ripping procedure that comes closest to the original CD format with its 00/01 indexes... Hence my question)
If you extract with EAC correctly, the cuesheet will have correct index points which will be preserved when imported into the FLAC file.
QUOTE(liekloo @ Sep 15 2003, 09:58 AM)
( 2 ) One of the advantages of Flac over other lossless formats, is that the audio data can be 'fixed' in case a few bits go corrupt. My question: is this just a kind of 'patch' to make playback possible again, or is the data restored exactly?
FLAC does not have error correction, it has detection and recovery. See here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=12105
Josh
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