Thanks for the infos!

Audigy2 AFAIK can playback audio up to 192KHz (IIRC I've tried with latest pp winamp plugin + ssrc); but i don't know if A1 can do this.


DVD-A 12 bits IST DEATH

Thanks, interesting info, nwn.

One thought related to this. I've already started a thread about this at afterdawn.

Given I want to copy my valuable vinyl to DVD-A @ 24/96 resolution, so I can listen to it using a standalone player connected to my Hifi. I'll buy expensive DVD-A authoring software, decent equipment, spend lots of time on ripping and restauration and finally burn.

If I understand correctly what I read here and elsewhere about DVD-A there's no way to extract the high resolution audio of the DVD-As I've created without loss so far. So given DVD media have similar life expectancies as CD media, my DVD-As can't be called secure backups, so I'd have to store the source data additionally 2 times elsewhere to get decent security against loss.

Have I missed somthing? is it possible to extract high resolution audio from self-made DVD-As somehow?

I haven't followed this thread recently, but if you just want 2-channel 24/96, why not just use DVD-V?

And, obviously, don't use any copy protection.

Doesn't that solve the problem?

Cheers,
David.

Of course this would be a sollution. Another one would be building a multi-purpose silent home-entertainment PC with decent soundcard, put lossless compressed hires audio on simple data DVD-R, maybe add PAR2 error recovery etc. All in all this will probably be cheaper, easier and better ...

My question was rather hypothetical as I want to know more about the copy protection of DVD-A and if I can decide while authoring if I want copy-protectedion or not - and if there exists software (or other possibilities) that can extract high resolution audio from non-copyprotected DVD-As.

BTW: I've seen the thread you've started at Doom9 about authoring DVD-V with 24/96 audio. Unfortunately it has a bad S/N ratio and didn't end with a real result IMO.
What software do you use for creating these audio DVD-Vs now?
Is the gapless playback problem solved?
What about this:
Any news?

ok this is a special complicated situation upon Dvd-A ....
so i will try to make a resumé / executive summary
more complete post in french with many links ..
http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php3?post=...ash=&subcat=131

prelude ..
We talk about Surround Audio in Ac3/Dolby (different versions) and DTS (different versions)
The subject is .. i bought a Dvd-Audio ..what can i do with ...

1. ... media ... ..
1.a- Dvd Vidéo incorporating surround audio no protectionon surround ..
1.b- Dvd Audio incropore in most cases double protection with media support and watermark
1.c-sacd no protection
1.d new format/media recent launch http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0903/03.wea.shtml

A good explanation will be that : http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq/dvd-a...audio/faq_2.htm
The DVD-Audio specification requires PCM audio while the Dolby Digital, DTS and MPEG audio formats are optional.
11/15/2000 - For compatibility with DVD-Video players, DVD-Audio discs can include audio encoded in Dolby Digital and DTS formats that satisfy the DVD-Video specification.
However, DVD-Audio players automatically default to the highest level of DVD specification. Therefore, a DVD-Audio player will only recognize the PCM DVD-Audio tracks on a DVD-Audio disc and will NOT recognize Dolby Digital or DTS audio tracks recorded at the DVD-Video specification. Although these Dolby Digital and DTS tracks are playable on a DVD-Video player, they are invisible to a DVD-Audio player. This applies even if the player supports the DVD-Video specification.



2... Surround Standard
2.a - Dolby generation Ac3, Dolby .. Thx .. etc ..
2.b - Dts generation
2.c - Others - DSD Sony & philipps .. have already a future


3a-b....Player Hard & Soft on Pc & Hifi hardware
3.a1- Soft of the Sounds card with limitation .. (Ifpi licence) recognize the watermark. I suppose that this is not the hard but the soft players or drivers which detect media support and watermark
3.a2- others Dvd-A players .. Windvd & Powerdvd
3.a3- others special players like VLC (videolan) Ac3/dtsParser, Ac3 filter Foobar Winamp etc .. and Gabest filter --- what about the protection? i don't know

3.b Hifi Amplifier Surround support
some desactivate Digital output .. some not .. i don't know many things on the subject


4. What can i do with Dvd-A
4.a - play from Dvd-a ..
with limited or sophisticated configuration .. you need a soft player and 5.1 Hp for all surround effects but soft will able to play with a simple card and a 2HP syst .. we talk about Creative Dvd-player and Powerdvd and Windvd

4.b- record from digital imput
(from hifi dvd-a player) i can't make a definitive opionion because some success some fails .. i haven't such configuration

4.c - Rip on Pc ..
Hypercube Gabest tools needs some manipulation .. not already test but seems interesting .. http://hypercubemx.free.fr/html/dts_wav_filter.html
Gabest Says . http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thr...forum_id=281015
By: gabest ( Gabest ) RE: AC3/DTS Audio-CDs and AC3/DTS wave-files? 2003-07-17 19:20
These are ac3 files with a fake pcm wave header, the ac3/dts source filters aren't getting loaded at all, dshow just selects the wave file reader and outputs it as pcm to the audio renderer. You should only use such files to burn them on cd. That's the purpose of the fake file header, to fool the cd recording programs to believe they are burning an uncompressed wave file, no need to fool other programs as well with it

AND What about LPCM 24bit ... on RAREWAVES - Who test it ????
LPCM 24bit processor 2003-08-10
Tool to adapt LPCM 24bit RAW streams to standard 24bit WAV files. By thomaspf
http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/others.html


4.d - copy/burn Dvd-A .. works ...

4e - Authoring ... some commercial prog
Surcode >> DiscWelder - et gamme Surcode - http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/products/products.html - http://www.surcode.com/low/low_index.html
Cube-Tec - http://www.cube-tec.com/CubeDVD.html
Sonic DVD-Audio Creator - http://www.sonic.com/products/dac/



Am I right on these subjects? Which ones are false or correct ?



documentation ..
Two Pdf very intersting and exhaustive
http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/3-9.pdf
http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/issue8.pdf

"The direct output from PCM tracks on a DVD is at a 48- or 96-KHz sampling rate with 16, 20, or 24 bits, with higher sampling rates possible on DVD-Audio. The DVD license restricts PC output from copy-protected content to 48/24. Some players can output 96/24 PCM audio using a non-standard variation of IEC-958 running at 6.2 MHz (6.144 Mbps) instead of the normal limit of 3.1 MHz. The converted PCM output from multichannel audio tracks is at 48 KHz and up to
24 bits. The PCM output from a CD or laserdisc is at 44.1 KHz and 16 bits. Not all audio systems that can be connected to a DVD player are able to handle all these variations, but the more the bett .....

My Panasonic DVD-audio machine has a menu option to force DVD-V operation - ie to pretend that it isn't a DVD-A machine, and to read the DVD-V portion of the disc only. I haven't tried it yet, but this seems to allow me to do what you say is impossible. Obviously it's a special feature, not something that you will find on every DVD-A player - but maybe in the future it will become more widespread.




I believe it's an authoring step - you can restrict the digital output. I didn't know that you could allow free output, but I had heard there were options to force downsampled output only, or switch it off completely; selectable when the DVD-A is authored IIRC.


Tigre,
After all my questions I never did burn 24/96 to a DVD, -V or -A. I've still got access to the burner, but I can't justify buying any more software! One day maybe.

Cheers,
David.

I believe the newer A2 and A2 Platinum lines are capable of 24/192 output, much like the M-Audio Revolution (which has no DVD-A player anyway...). IIRC, the initial release versions of the A2 were limited to 24/96 output either in the drivers (which likely have been updated) or by the DAC.

The Audigy 1 is limited to 16 bit 48kHz internally (24 bit DACs...). Except for the new 'LS' versions, which may not be (difficult to tell from any Creatiive literature).

Here's a quote from the relevant 3dSS article:

I tried it last night. It works perfectly. (just in case someone somewhere wanted to know!)

Cheers,
David.