From the gist of what I've read on Doom9, there is currently no way to rip DVD-A.

Is this true, or can I get some of the audio off of it at all?

Basically, I have Queen's A Night at the Opera on DVD-A. I saw it at the store a year ago and thought it was pretty nifty. But now I want to access those songs whenever I want w/o having to put it into a DVD player.

At this point, I don't care if I lose the 5.1 information, I just want some MPC backups. Is there a way I can do this yet?

Thanks,

No, unless you connect the S/PDIF out of your DVD player to the S/PDIF in of your sound card.

Wouldn't be a really decent rip, but better than nothing.

Also, doesn't DVD Audio limit you to analog output only? Or has this been hacked already?

If there is a solution for S/PDIF output with a Audigy 2 card and DVD-Audio, I would be glad to know of it. I have no plans whatsoever to connect my external amplifier with 6 analog cables to my computer.

I was cheated on this by Creative, that didn't print anything at all about this limitation exept in fine print. When I got the card, I thought I could send DVD-Audio to my amplifier via S/PDIF just as from the DVD movie player does. Boy was I angry when I found out about this limitation.

No such limitation to my knowledge. I've been able to play said DVD in PowerDVD, and it puts out the SPDIF audio without a problem. But this is on an nVidia based system.

PowerDVD can't play DVD-A.
There is only one DVD-A player software for PC : the Creative DVD-A player.

Maybe this isn't a pure DVD-A disc then.

My disc is right here.

http://www.dtsentertainment.com/sellsheet....pc=692860109193

I think you're right, PowerDVD doesn't play the MLP, but I promise you that it can play the DTS part.

Oh, it is a pure DVD Audio. But it got several different tracks, to get backwards compability.

PowerDVD can only decode DVD Video, which does contain quite an extensive spec for good audio to. The spec says 24/96 DTS, which is probably what PowerDVD decodes. It is quite impressive, I didn't know about any 24/96 DTS discs yet, as it is a very new spec from DTS.

Explained shortly, DVD Audio is maximum 24/192 for 2 channel, and 24/96 for multichannel. This is lossless compressed audio, which is the big difference. DTS offers the same multichannel spec (with its latest norm) at 24/96, but this is lossy compressed audio. I wasn't able to find their bitrate spec for 24/96 DTS (I imagine it is quite high), but standard DTS 16/48 is 768KBit or 1.509MBit. There is also a standard PCM soundtrack on the DVD-Audio you got.

So basically you can get very good audio, as the disc got DTS 24/96, but DVD Audio mode would be even better (in theory anyway).

I also read some discussion before about DVD Audio and analog output only. (It might have been on this forum even, I'm a bit forgetful) There was speculation that there might be a bandwidth limitation with 24/96 multichannel DVD Audio (uncompressed) over S/PDIF. There was talk about Firewire solutions for this in future DVD Audio players.

I read somewhere it was 4096kbps for 5.1 24/96 audio. But don't take my word for granted - I might be confused, and I don't remember where I saw it.

There is some good reviews of DVD-A at
http://highfidelityreview.com/reviews/dvdaudio.asp

When I get a standalone DVD-A player (can't use my Audigy2 to play DVD-A with my amplifier, as it don't do S/PDIF then), I will certanly get a few of those. Eagles and ELP seems good, got good reviews.

I also found a discussion about MLP compression for DVD-A, and why Pink Floyd's album Dark Side of the Moon was released on SACD instead of DVD-A. Personally, I think its just bull, and that it was money which where the real reason.
http://highfidelityreview.com/features/mlp_encode.asp

is it technically possible to rip dvd-a and the encode it for example with vorbis to a 5.1 file ? (i know it's not possible yet but will it may be sometime?)

on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )

I've just spent the last couple hours stabbing at this.

I can't even get at the LPCM (rather, I think I get at it, but I just get a bunch of static instead). Even with this attempt at backwards compatiblity, I seemed to be screwed.

For those curious, I'm using DVDdecryptor, DVD2AVI, and BeSweet/azidts to try and get at these, and every variation seems to produce static (and only static).

I guess I'm SOL until someone figures out a way to crack CPPM

it's theoretically possible. You only need to decrypt and decode the MLP stream. Unfortunately, until now, there is neither decryptor nor decoder publicly available. (except the commercial ones, that limit what you can do with the stream)



Right, PDM (DSD) is not processable by PCM encoders.

hm i guess this is an advantage of the dvd-a format. many people love to hear music on their pc, making playlists, burning own compilations and stuff. all this is not possible with sacd then (unless you use analog output which takes alot of time). with dvd-a maybe it will be sometime. even listening to 5.1 music on your pc.

Actually, it's possible with SACD and much easier that with DVD-A, you just need to use the Red Book part.

Besides, ripping DVD-A is only a possibility so far, it's impossible to predict it we'll ever come across dome decrypter/decoder.

Decoding, specifically, would require some pretty heavy reverse engineering.

Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.

FWIW, the one DVD-Audio I have "Studio Voodoo" will also put out DTS 6.1 and
Dolby DIgital 2.0. I think DTS sponsored the production and the Dolby 2.0 is just so
they can say it plays on any DVD player.

Yeah, thats true, I know that. I mentioned earlier that there was talk about a new digital interface for DVD-A, with enough bandwith. Maybe firewire or something like that.

But with my current setup, the computer is quite a bit away from the amp, and I don't wont to draw 6 new analog lines for it. But if I sometime get a DVD-player with DVD-A capability, it will be above the amp, and not so big hassle to use analog RCA cables.

I "heard" about somebody sent code to the maker of smartripper
to correctly store the LPCM track from DVD-A.
But it is not implemented, yet.

Wombat

Some weeks ago I read somewhere that the redbook part of "Dark Side of the Moon" was much more compressed than the SACD part. Is this true?

And if yes, ripping this would not be an alternative.

I never listened to the SACD part of Dark Side (I don't own a SACD player), but I have no problem with the RedBook part. Might not be the best remaster ever, but it isn't bad (IMO)

This isn't entirely true. Last i heard, and i'm not actually 100% up to date in this area at the moment, the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192', which connects from its flagship DVD player to its top of the line home cinema amplifier.
DVD-A1 DVD Player
AVC-A1SR Amplifier
The cost for buying both of these would be somewhere upwards of £3000 as i recall.

On a SACD there are physical watermark somewhere in the TOC. Unfortunately there exists no DVD ROM which can read the watermark.

So you can't even read the data off the SACD disc, not to mention how to process them...

Here is a quote from Stereophile Magazine about this matter:

He said analog, not digital

Why are DVD-A's being manufactured using lossy compressors such as DTS & Dolby? They may be good compressors in part because of their huge data-rates.. but isn't that partly defeating the purpouse of DVD-A in being the highest quality one can get?

This thread sparked me to venture to doom9 for the first time to try and decode an audio DVD my sister won, Orbital : The Altogether. I'm under the impression it was one of the first 5.1 albums produced (~2001) and I didn't bother buying it on cd because of her winning this (even though I only got a DVD player this year..)

I have found Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode a great tool, it decodes AC3 multichannel to wav's etc.. but sadly no DTS, so I'm not getting the highest quality files off there..

One question I have though - I can't extract the stereo files (there is Dolby 2.0 on the x81 channeL), so is there a "recommended" method of downmixing to stereo? Going down to mono is easy, 50% left + 50% right.. but from 5 down to 2, there's lots of options

My guess would be... 100% Front Left + 50% Rear Left + 25% Center, and the same on the right, followed by normalizing them to a nice level.. What do more sensible people thing?

This is starting to veer off-topic, but both Headac3he and BeSweet support a Pro-logic II type downmix (surround2) that allows you to reproduce the surround sound with a Pro-Logic decoder.

With such downmixes, I wouldn't play around with those settings

These tracks are just there for compatibility with current DVD players. If you have the appropiate player, you can decode MLP, that is lossless.



You can decode DTS using WinDVD + Hypercube transcoder. Look for it at Doom9.

As rjamorim already stated, they are there for backwards compability. Many DVD-A have three tracks, DVD-A lossless, DTS or DD multichannel lossy compressed (playable with any DVD or DVD software on PC), and standard PCM tracks.

Using a DVD-A player, you will get the MLP lossless compressed DVD-A track. At maximum bitrates up to 9.8MBit.

Er perhaps you'd like to re read what he said; that you could only get an analog output even from standalone dvd-a players. I was pointing out that this wasn't true as denon have their digital link interface.
The Sony/Philips digital interface (SPDIF) does not support the full resolution of dvd-audio and as such this alternative was developed by denon for their high end kit.
Still confused?

Roberto, you 0wn! Thanks man

Reading a different thread here I found how to let my system know that my dtssource.ax filter exists, and now it appears to be working fine. I thought DTS was like RM in being totally unbroken, and now I find RM is hacked up


I'm not sure I follow you.. I don't have a Pro-Logic decoder except in my standalone DVD-Player hooked up to my tv.. and I could just play the Orbital DVD in there anyway I want to make a common stereo file, like I would find on the Orbital CD if I purchased it..

Put it this way, are u able to use any DAC to complement the Denon DVD-A player?

The answer is NO.

if you can play it on a pc-dvd, maybe you can use some soft recorder like Total Recorder or http://spider.nstu.nsk.su/music/software/eng/vac.html]Virtual Audio Cable[/URL] to do it ...

Headac3he and BeSweet are programs that can decode and downmix AC3 surround. But instead of adjusting the channel levels yourself, they have presets like surround2, surround, stereo and a few others

I think that doom9 recommends that you use the surround2 downmix anyways.

Unfortunately, I can't find any documentation on what those settings actually do, so you'll have try different settings and see which you prefer.

Interesting, to bad it seems to be a Denon own solution. Would be nice with a standard solution.

Well the Audigy 2's DAC has the capability to decode DSD: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet...et/cs4382-2.pdf

About ripping LPCM tracks off of DVDs you might want to look at this thread over at the AVS forums. It might help.

LOL ... a lot of nonsense here ....

DVD-A has

2 x 24/192 , pure PCM
6 x 24/96, MLP compressed

plus everything DVD-V can have ( in principal, nobody will want to do that unless for compatibility )

DVD-V can have

2 x 16/44.1
2 x 16/48
6 x 16/48
2 x 24/96

The SPDIF outputs from both DVD-V and DVD-A will work and output digital audio, but be downsampled always to either 44.1 or 48 Khz, even if the source is 96 or 192 KHz.

So, in principal you can rip any DVD-V or DVD-A fine if you have such a player and connect to your soundcard via SPDIF, but sampling frequency will be only 44.1 or 48 Khz ..... if you plan to make a lossy compression afterwards, you'd be fine in any case ....

For playback, AFAIK DVD-A has a completely different TOC and every normal DVD ripping software such as Smartripper or DVDdecrypter will fail on it. AFAIK its impossible to play a normal DVD-A in a normal DVD-V player ( tested in an elecronics shop on about 20 different DVD-V players, about 6 months ago ). Only possibility i see is to make it double-sided, and make one DVD-A and one DVD-V side. And redbook standard is a CD standard, has nothing to do with DVDs ....

Sure you can rip the PCM stream from the DVD-A with
a PC-drive onto your hard-disk with smartripper.

But it doesn´t work cause the stream is a bit corrupted.
I said before it is only a question of time till the
smartripper author implements the code he received a while
back to store the LPCM in correct wav shape

Wombat

It's all about license fees, nothing about the cability.


No, it is not allowed, unless it is design as in Denon case, which is meaningless. All about copyright.

Wrong :

http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/dareview/...ics/dvd-a10.htm

* Optional coaxial digital output

http://www.energenix.com/technics-dvda10n.html

* Optional coaxial digital output for connection to a variety of digital components

Thats not true. The digital outputs are fully closed when playing DVD-A. This is on Audigy 2, and I don't have a standalone player.

Those feature lists just cite digital output as an ability on a multifunction player. The DVD Consortium specified that DVD-A cannot be played back digitally except in certain special cases where there is some proprietary technology that keeps it protected. Coaxial is not one of those technologies, and thus if you tried to play a DVD-A on one of those players, the digital output would be disabled.

The digital output in the link u mentioned is only for the CD-Audio, not DVD-Audio.

You can always call them up to confirm this.

There's a new one, just released. (Actually, an add-on to WinDVD)

http://intervideo.com/jsp/DVDAudio_Profile.jsp

I don't see any mention of DVD-A there. Have you got a direct link, or a quote ?

http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVDPlatin...num_Profile.jsp



I have an Audigy2 and tried the DVD-A bundled wih the card: it works nicely with WinDVD 5.1


(I can post some screenshot, if you like)

I must be blind. I still don't see anything related to DVD-A is the first link.
There is something about high resolution audio



But this is only for DVD-Video (24/96 is the maximum specification of DVD-Video, and they talk about "movies").

The Audigy 2 quote speaks about DVD Audio, but oddly limits the advertised playback to 24 bits 96 kHz, that is below the full DVD-A specifications (192 kHz 24 bits).

All I can see is an enigmatic mention of an "InterVideo's DVD-Audio Pack"...
Need more info.

Me too, definitely.
Probably the feature page isn't completely done and doesn't advertise all new feature (I use Intervideo's product since WinDVD3 and never liked their websites for the lack of useful information..)

My only DVD-A is the one supplied with the A2, and this is the report of the information box of windvd



As you noted, my DVD-A is 96/24.

(joking = DAMN! They sold me half a DVD-A !!!!! )

HI !!!! New in this topic ....

1) i found the licence for protection purpose on Audio that explains rules ..
http://www.dtcp.com/data/Compliance_Rules_...udio_020610.pdf

2) i wrote in french sorry ... an article on Surround purpose with tests ..
http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php3?post=...cat=131#t501547

3) confirmation for ...
- Creative Audigy 2 ... disable Digital output with Dvd-A player
- Sucsessfull playing Dts-Dvd-A with Windvd (with full options) but not with Powerdvd v5 but success with powerdvd v4 (all options)...

4) why not an "open decoder" for Dts/Dolby ? is ther a problem for licence .. probably .. found parser and filter for Ac3/Dts for video media but nothing for audio ...

Hypercube seems to need some manipulation ... copy track to pc, rename extension and change header .. i mistake ?

some people produce package with ax file from gabest or intervideo to support dts/dolby video .. hope someone wil done the sam with audio support .. but illegal package i think


Also found an situation report on Drm including Dv-A Feb-2003
http://www.cenorm.be/isss/DRM/draft_report1_2.pdf
Abstract ... See followings infos .. on pdf ..

Almost all the 260-odd DVD-A titles released to market to date have carried different versions of the audio to allow playback in DVD-A players and also in video/hometheatre systems. There are two main copy-protection systems within DVD-A, known as CPPM and CPRM.
For pre-recorded DVD-A, the CPPM protection system (Content-Protection for Prerecorded Media) is used to protect the audio. This involves encryption on the disc and key-blocks licensed for use in player devices are needed to play the disc.
As well as encryption on the disc and decryption in players, CPPM permits the
transport of digital content over an approved secure link for out-board processing,
and also the Verance audio watermark, which is applied to original audio. Compliant DVD-A players will not play content on DVD-recordable formats that is marked with the Verance mark, unless the content is encrypted and carried on an original disc or a compliant recordable disc. This system does not exercise control over CD-R copies, and content from any source on CD-R will play on DVD players whether watermarked or not.
DVD-A also provides for recordable media with copy-management to prevent
uncontrolled copying. The copy-management system is known as CPRM (Content-
Protection for Recordable Media). CPRM allows for re-marking of the Verance mark
in the copied audio. CPRM also allows secure export to flash-memory devices, and
for other specified uses such as library copies.


etc...

Actualy this seems to be correct according to this specs . 192 KHz is only specified for 2 channel material.

I don't have a Audigy, but does it go beyond 96 KHz anyway?

BTW As you can see even 12 bits 44.1 KHz would be possible on DVD-A. DVD is a true versatile format

edit: just cleaned up the sig