I've searched the forum already, and can't seem to find a definitive answer.

The drive I currently use (Lite-On CD-R 24x10x40x) rips rather slow (5x) in secure mode with c2 disabled, audio caching disabled (Should I enable audio caching??), and accurate stream enabled. But I need a faster one, (perhaps a more accurate one if there is such a model). Any suggestions? It doesn't matter if it's a CD-R, DVD-R or just a regular CD drive.

I'm getting a new processor/mobo for some cd to mp3 ripping I'm doing in a month or two. With all of the cd's in my collection -- ~3,000 -- I'm going to need every speed boost I can handle.

Thanks ahead of time for the advice!

P.S.: I'm reripping my CD's to --alt-preset extreme. I originally ripped them at 160Kbps several years ago with CDex -- the quality has become unbearable.

cdrinfo says the AOpen CRW5224 can read audio discs at 26x with EAC secure mode. The drive does not cache audio
http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/cdrw/crw5224.htm

You can't go wrong choosing Plextor;) that brand has an excellent reputation in audio cd ripping and dae quality. They used to be really expensive, over double the price of lite-ons. But this spring is witnessing something new, cheap Plextors!
Their first _ide_ cd-rom and dvd-rom came to marketplace, and you get Plextools Professional (much much faster than eac in ripping, good beating audio protections, equal quality to eac) with them. Of course you can use eac with those too..

Best part: price. 6 months ago the cheapest Plex allowing you to use plextools was about 120€, now the new cd-rom is 26€ (54*reading speed), dvd-rom is 48€ (48*). About the same in dollars.

I am changing my excellent asus616 -dvd-rom to more excellent plextor dvd-rom, I have plenty of scratchy cd's to rip.

j

[EDIT] checked the 6 months old price

Actually you can, I have the latest Plextors - but these new protected CDs they will not rip. I also have a new Liteon that does perfectly rip.

Now what is stopping the Plextors from ripping is a special command they have implemented in the firmware to only read the first session (ignore the rest), I have offically asked Plextor for details of this command and they flatly refused to give it out - what an inward looking company.

If you want the fastest EAC secure ripping speed you can't get no better than the Aopen

One thing I'm wondering: is 5x really really slow?

Because my own driver is even slower and I always thought it was nothing abnormal given the secure mode used by EAC.

Which speed can we expect to reach?

I don't mean to derail this thread, but isn't the "Drive Caches Audio Data" option in EAC supposed to be enabled? According to the ping.be tutorial, if the drive caches audio data, you certainly have to enable the option. And I'm thinking: why not enable it at all times? If the drives caches the data, you're OK -- and if it doesn't, well, then the option doesn't affect anything. Have I got something wrong here?

[Also, I'm wondering how can you find out whether your drive caches audio data or not? I own a Yamaha CRW3200. EDIT: You can find out whether your drive caches audio data or not, within the EAC program (go to "Drive Options"). Apparently mine does cache audio data - but doesn't do C2, which is a pitty.]

I would think if you enable the option when the drive does not cache audio makes EAC try and clear the cache even if it does not need to?

@spoon:

Do you have the PX-116A dvd too? Same with that?

Have you checked your plex-drive(s) with plextools? You can modify drive features, e.g. enable "single session"- reading from that software. If I understood correctly enabled single session is very useful against a specific common audio protection.

Strange, Plextor has released new firmwares for their drives very often, increasing (not decreasing) copy-protected cd's reading capabilities. So has their policy changed in last three months or ???

or hopefully it's a 1.00 bug soon to be fixed...

j

I used to have a friend's plex in my pc for couple of months, I really liked ripping with plextools, that's the main and only reason I am changing my Asus to Plex.

You can find out verious features of your drive at this link: http://www.ping.be/satcp/eacoffsets01.htm

I read the tutorial on ping.be and here's the segment on Drive Caching:


I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. If you enable drive caching will it continue to read the first sample errors and all? Or will it retrieve another sample to compare 2 different samples side by side? I'm confused.

As for the drives, the Aopen drive looks promising. I'm going to have to do a little more research into it though.

I just picked up a Liteon 10x DVDROM / 48x CDROM along with a Liteon 52/24/52 writer, and the DVD rips remarkably faster.

I typically get an average of about 11x on a disc, with it reaching sometimes upwards of 20x on the outer tracks.

It also seems to do C2 perfectly.

I don't have any Plextor DVD drives.

It is the 'single session' I was talking about, without this command in EAC or dBpowerAMP they will not rip a protected CD (no matter what is done behind the scenes).

I have a 1 year old AOpen, it fairs better than the Plextor, but not 100%. The Liteon I have seems to detect the bad 2nd session and automatically disables it.



If you take their 'meat and potatoes' the Plexwriter XX/xx/xx their firmware has not been updated in awhile (6 months or more?).

hmm, the EAC site does seem to prefer Plextor Drives.

In fact it says:

I use the plextor premium drive. It is about 130$ US at BestBuy last time I checked. An excellent drive for all purposes. From what it seems one of the best on the market. Here is a nice link about it. http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Detai...?RelatedID=3930
It was also reviewed very thoroughly on that site. I would highly recommend it. Much better than the Yamaha-F1E i had about a week ago.

How did I become advocat for Plextor???!!!
I don't (yet) own a plex, I don't work in IT business, I don't have own interest here...

Of course there are plenty of firmware updates for their latest and greatest plexwriter from March is currently 1.03 (firmware released yesterday), but interesting is the firmware release 1.14 in the middle of June this year for a drive from 2000 or 2001 (I can't remember so far away), all the previous models (24*, 40*, 48* writing) are at 1.04 or 1.05 version from May this year ... So at least 4 updates per drive. So they do update, every now and then...

Inward-looking company.... maybe, but how many other brands there is, who develop in the house state-of-art ripping software, with updated features like options to use ogg, ape, freedb... these were added because of customers feedback....and then gives it for free... Not so many hardware manufacturers, if any. I would be glad to hear more.

I just want rip my cd's with plextools, it only re-reads the disk and reduces the speed if necessary. EAC's secure reading is always slow, with perfect disks too.
I only have to rip problematic cd's slow. And I know that the usual plextools 20-30-40-whatever-speed-reading is perfect too. I don't have the new el cheapo drives, I'll get my dvd next week. I know, not presume, much more then.

j

and one more just to be sure

Dibrom, other mods, care to ring in?

Dr. Mindbender, I'm aware of that quote from the ping.be tutorial. The way I get it, this means:

It kind of works like this: EAC reads every audio sector from your CD twice and does the comparison;

-if the sector is OK, then both readings done by EAC would be identical, so EAC moves on to the next sector
-if the sector is faulty, it's almost certain that the two readings would bring different results, so EAC decides to re-read that sector -- at a slower and far more careful pace -- until it gets two identical results, which means that it was able to circumvent the fault. Of course, if the fault is persistent, EAC will most probably give you a warning about it.

OK, now say your drive caches audio data, and you go on making your first rip. Let's say there's an error in sector 1 of this CD, OK?

Your drive will read sector 1 and pass it along to EAC. At the same time, your drive will keep the contents of sector 1 in its buffer. So, when EAC asks for the contents of sector 1 to be examined for a second time, instead of your drive re-reading sector 1 and passing the results to EAC it will pass along the contents of its buffer - which are identical to what EAC was given the first time sector 1 was examined! So the two results are identical, thus EAC thinks that this sector is OK and moves on to the next one..

But, if you have enabled the option "Drive Caches Audio Data", when EAC is about to ask the contents of sector 1 for a second time, it will instruct your drive to empty its cache and do a re-read of that sector. And because sector 1 is faulty, you'll most likely get a different result this time, EAC will notice the difference and re-read sector 1 without haste this time until it circumvents the error (if you're lucky enough and the error is minor).

My 2 cents on the issue -- I'm not sure I've got everything right though..

I think I have the same drive as you.
Mine is 24102B, I bought it in late 2001

If it is the same model number, then IT CACHES AUDIO DATA.
Therefore, that option should be checked in EAC.


Hope this helps.

konstantinos: oooooh! alright, i gotcha, that makes a lot more sense, thanks!

AtaqueEG: Yep, that's the same model number. I'm curious how fast do you rip and are there any firmware updates that you've applied to it?

I own an AOpen CRW-2440 CD writer which works flawlessly at ripping CDs in secure mode. It's also known for being able to defeat some forms of copy protection on audio CDs.

If I had to choose a drive today, I'd put my money down on the PlexWriter Premium. It just doesn't get much better than that...

What exactly makes the PlexWriter Premium so expensive? It seems like a lot of money for a CD-Writer.

I have updated FW all the way up to 5S54 (the last one, IIRC)
I get the same speeds as you if I rip single tracks.
If I rip full CDs it keeps on increasing up to 10-12x.
I like it, it can deal with some protections, and has very good C2 accuracy

Yamaha F1

Speaking of drive speeds when using EAC, my Yamaha CRW3200E gives me ~5x (that concerns the "Track", because in "Overall Progress" the speed is always around ~1.2x).

I'm wondering: isn't this a bit slow? Is it because my drive can't retrieve C2 error information? Or does it depend on the computer's abilities too (e.g. RAM, CPU, etc.)?

You sure have that right. They have discontinued all CD Roms, only burners now. And the SCSI selection leaves a lot to be desired. (Unless you are somplace other than the US, what gives?) Once uppon a time, all their best stuff was SCSI first, now it's IDE only. How the mighty have fallen.

I disagree with the notion that Plextor has intentionally decreased support for copy-protected discs. Based on what I've read at various hardware web sites, their firmware updates have increased support for reading and copying all kinds of copy-protected discs. Even now, their policy seems to be no different...

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Detai...?RelatedID=3930

As for those who doubt Plextor's current quality, the reviews here and here should be just a couple of reasons to reconsider.

Talking from personal experience with a PlexWriter 48/24/48: with PlexTools you put it in Single Session, tell it to ignore errors, lower the read speed to 4x and it rips through *anything*. CDS200 cd's at 4x without any pops/clicks whatsoever.

Amazing peace of machinery. Very happy with it. Can't compare to other brands though.

Lots of misinformation in this thread. I will try to correct what I know.

IMHO a good drive not only rips fast, but also accurately. IMHO. YMMV.

AOpen CRW5224
AOpen CRW5224 doesn't perform as well as the best of current 52x writers, due to it's poor performance in C2 accurary:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/S...eries=0&index=3

Most accurate audio ripper?
A better drive for ripping audio accurately and resonably fast with a good performance on scratched discs would be Samsung SM-348B, Sony CRX220A1 or LiteOn 52246S (with proper firmware):

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php...p?p=71299#71299

Plextor Premium
As you can see from the above list even Plextor Premium leaves something to be desired in its C2 accuracy and scratched CD read performance (speed is ok, but accuracy is sacrificed). Perhaps Premium would be more accurate at a lower test speed or when using Plextools Pro rather than EAC. I haven't been able to test this yet myself nor have I seen a test about this by anyone else.

As for audio copy protection circumvention, Plextools Pro with Plextor Premium rips through all of the known audio cd copy protections:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/112/7

It even does away with CDS200 9 second mark gap that fails even LiteOn drives unless they are set to rip at 4x.

LiteOn DVD-ROM drives
As for LiteOn DVD-ROM drives, they are known for their high C2 INaccuracy and as such I would not trust them for ripping of scratched discs, even if they might rip fast. What is the purpose of speed, if the results are inaccurate and not repeatable?

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php...t=liteon+dvdrom

Yamaha F1
It's a nice drive too, but it's not IMHO the best for ripping audio CDs, because it cannot report back C2 errors nor is its scratched disk reading accuracy as good as the best of the competition:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?r...age=Performance

My personal opinion is as an owner of various Yamaha drives (yes, I still have CRW3200 even today) that their failure rate was higher than many other manufacturers. Further, F1 is not being made anymore and getting one fixed in the future might prove to be problematic. Yes, I still like my CRW3200 and for burning certain type of audio discs I think it is unsurpassed (with the possibly exception of F1 from Yamaha as well).

As parting words I'd like to add that I Own LG, Samsung, Yamaha, LiteOn, Plextor, BTC, Ricoh and have owned various other drives. To me it's irrelevant which is good and which is not. I'm not to shoot down any particular brands or to recommend those that I own myself, but to straighten out some misunderstandings.

There is no single perfect drive for anything, although for some singular purposes (like ripping audio CDs of uneven quality accurately at a fair speed) some drives will very likely perform better than others.

regards,
Halcyon

To add my two pennies worth...

I have also tried a lot of drives. I have found the Toshiba range to be one of the best if not the best.

I currently own a Toshiba SD-R1312 combo drive and have found that will rip anything it is presented with. CDs and DVDs. Especially on DVDs if any other drive fails to read the media try it on a Toshiba drive.

One good source for guidance is
http://www.elby.ch/en/products/clone_cd/writers/a.html

I use the LiteOn 24102B as well ( rebadged Creative model ), and the last firmware is now 5S5A. IMHO, its a great drive, but showing its age ...

I enable all three options in EAC though ( Accurate Stream, Drive Caches Audio, C2 ) ... Are my options wrong?

As for speeds, I average around 5.5x in secure mode (with the above settings) on new discs.... I'm not sure how you manage to reach 10-12x though... Any secrets?

You should uncheck the C2 options as virually no drive has 100% correct C2 information.

1) My experience told me that most (if not all) LiteOn CDRW caches audio data.
2) My 52327S rips CDS200-protected CDs without C2 box checked at an even slower speed: 2x. However it rips with correct CRC.

You can get the best of both worlds (C2 implementation, which in that drive is good and EACs re-read feature) by using TEST & COPY.
I use C2 because what I rip most is brand new CDs (the first thing I do with any new CD I buy is to rip and encode) and using C2 gives me a speed burst. Have ripped about 300 CDs like this, yet to hear a ripping artifact*
When a CD is NOT new I do TEST & COPY


* If no audible flaws, really, who cares if C2 is 100% correct or not. It's like a lossy codec, you know it is not perfect but sounds good enough. I am not archiving anything, I just rip and encode so I can listen to music on my computer, my car and my headphones. When I start my archiving endeavor later this year (in september to be exact) I will de-select C2 and use FLAC.

Well im in no hurry, so i like to leave it unchecked to be safe.

Similar finding here:

A few weeks ago I got a Samsung SW-252B drive (special offer at a local supermarket with money-back-without explanation policy, so no risk) and did a few tests:

1. I did a "light version" of EAC secure mode test with the Samsung and noticed that the number of read errors (burst mode, full speed) was only ~ 1/5 of my Plextor PX-W 121032 A. In EAC secure mode 1 line of read lights was enough to correct all errors properly (Plex needed up to 5 lines), the speed of re-reads was great (no caching) compared to Plex.

2. "Copy protections": All copy protected discs I own (among them CDS 200 and something similar containing C2 errors) were extracted properly. Only drawback: Copy protections containing C2 errors caused reading speed to decrease to ~4x.

Only problem with this drive: In secure mode errors (even if red lights dont show up) cause reading speed to drop to 4x and stay there for too long. I *think* this is because of the drive's good internal error correction. If the drive notices errors (=C2 mismatches) it reduces reading speed without caring about software commands. Could be that this is caused by my OS/ASPI/Settings/whatever combination. So - if anyone noticed something similar with this or other drives or knows more, please let me know.

BTW: I returned the drive because of the speed issue (and because I'm not sure if my next writer should be a DVD one).

Wow, thanks for all the great replies!

I purely need the drive for ripping. I need to find a balance between speed and accuracy. I'll probably go with the Sony CRX220A1 or LiteOn 52246S. We'll see; I still need to do some research.

I'll keep you guys posted as to what my final decision is.

Audio copy protection or data copy protection? LiteOns have traditionally done the data stuff the best and Plextor the audio stuff the best when it comes to copy protection. One good thing about my Plextor combo is that it reads into both the Lead-In and Lead-Out, so there is likely no chance to not make a perfect Audio cd copy with it, with the correct offset values. I don't care that it is only 24x write, all I look for in a drive is good audio ripping capabilities. It does'em. Now, it DOES cache audio data, that is the only downfall to this drive, it will be slower in EAC than a drive that doesn't cache audio. But I don't know of another current generation drive outside of the Plextors that reads from the Lead-In (probably more correctly pre-gap) and Lead-Out.