I found out the Skip Doctor. How does its resurfacing fluid work? Does it fill the scratches or remove a layer of plastic? I hope it's not a snake-oil device that does more than shining the cd surface which I can do with less elaborate hardware.

Please post other such devices that essentially does the same thing.

No matter how carefully I try to preserve my CD, I realized that a few of them became problematic. My best option for those CDs was only to rip in burst mode of EAC so far. What do you recommend to preserve your CDs/DVDs? Why do they have a lifetime? How can I slow their deterioration?

I believe the disc doctor uses "resurfacing", meaning it removes a thin layer of polycarbonate.

That's right. According to the doc, the "fluid" is just distilled water. It is needed for the abrasive wheel to work properly.

If you only need to repair a few discs, bring them into a local used CD store that has a resurfacing and polishing machine (Fix-A-Disc, etc). It's usually about $4-$5 per disc...I've had nothing but stellar results.

Oh, so it's not a magic fluid that I need to buy later on when I run out... Hmm since I'll use it for a while I think I can buy sth. for this purpose (of course not a professional device that costs >$1000). I pay $4-5 a disc as new price anyway so paying that much for professional polishing doesn't seem like a viable option.

And again why do the CDs deteriorate? Does sth. happen to the reflective layer? or is it just assumed that as you use CDs, they'll also be subject to abuse and damage and that's why they'll die after some time.

Where do you get new discs for $4-$5 each!!! My credit card is standing by...

(Edit: You may as well just pick up a new disc...)

You need to be in the US for that. I use Amazon zShops, half.com and bmgmusic . BMGMusic works very well, although they don't have some rare items. But I cancel my account each time I fulfill the membership requirement so that I don't receive spam mail. Then I reregister I don't usually listen to very popular stuff. If you do your choices of finding them cheaper are higher.

Thanks for the info...actually, I use Half.com from time to time and have everything delivered to a buddy in NY who hooks up with me regularly. Most Half.com material is used, but it's probably close enough to "new" 9 times out of 10. I'll check out the BMG lead...thanks!

These kind of devices can only repair CDs that have been scratched. If you handle your CDs with as much care as possible, they shouldn't deteriorate in less than 15 years, and if is the case, SkipDoctor can't do anything.

I haven't scratched or damaged cds , it's easy to me, I make a copy from every cd that I buy with EAC and cuesheet and listen from the copy. The original cd is stored in the case and in safe place. Never give my cd to my friends or another pople, when a friend ask me from a cd, I make a new copy from the original for her/his. I take special care with the copys too, almost the same care that I have with the originals. Simple as that

Is the motorized version of the SkipDoctor any better than the regular?

FWIW - I have CD's from '83 and '84 that are just fine and rip with EAC as well as a new CD. They are "supposed" to deteriorate, but I see no sign of mine doing so. Maybe in a few years. I hope not. B)

I have always found brasso to work magic on original (pre-pressed) cds. I used to rent a lot from my local library and they would invariably be in a horrendous condition, sometimes not even being recoginised in cd player. A small amount of brasso on a brand new duster applied in small circular motions, left for thirty seconds, and then wiped off with a clean area of duster would 9 times out of 10 result in a trouble free recording.

Recordable cd's are a different matter. Don't even think about using any abrasive on them because they will be rendered useless, guaranteed.

I have a number of 'silver-blue' recordables which I burnt about five years ago and they are starting to deteriorate now. I keep hearing that the grade 'A' white tops such as discrite are likely to last the longest (upto 75 years)!

I think the disc doctor thing is a waste of money to be honest. Use brasso first, one tin will probably last you months. Hope this helped

The bottom of CDR is the same as the bottom of regular CD : plain polycarbonate. Maybe the other side is sensitive, and needs extra care not to be damaged in the process.

Also the longevity, maybe this is related to the top coating, but we can't say yet if any CDR will last 75 years. Mitsui gold (now replaced by medical and prostudio) are guaranteed to last 200 years and they die after 4 years of storage ( http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/3247 , 11th post, by Fallen BR), like any other CDR.

Isn't "Brasso tin" a sort of metal polish? I don't believe in that methodology scientifically. I think Skip Doctor makes more sense. I saw there's also a Pro as well as a motorized version out there, and quite cheap on eBay.



CD copying seems to me to be a lossy process (rip and burn). I don't want my originals to die ever, because I'd never rip from the copies. I could burn them to CD as data disc after lossless encoding but that wouldn't help aging, so I keep them lossy on my hard drive. However in the future when space is plenty I'd probably rip them to lossless once and for all. That's why I wanted to know what the associated reasons of CD aging are. If I keep them inside their case and don't touch on the surface and clean them each time I use (only for ripping), I don't think they should age. But AFAIK they do somehow, don't they?

The goog thing about the motorized version, is that it is "calibrated" to work at the, I guess, best speed for the resurfacing process to be more effective.
With the manual one, you can do it either too fast or too slow, which sometimes gives worse results.

The DiskDoctor is no more than a piece of water sandpaper (need's water to buff better) set in a way that makes buffing your discs with sandpaper safer.

It works really good. Usually with really scratched discs, two or three passes are enough to get it to EAC-secure ripping conditions (with no errors, of course).

The worst CD I had is one that survived a mild fire and had some black spots on data layer that did't allow laser to go through. It was not burnt, just "blackened". I did about 6 passes. The stains kinda cleared a bit, but never went away for good. Still, EAC could retrieve the data. Made a copy and gave that CD it's deserved burial short after.

Brasso, if it's the same as "miror" in France, is also suited for "hard plastics". The difference with SkipDoctor is that it features chemical agents, and leaves a coating after being applied (with an unpleasant smell). But it's main action is abrasive. It features a lot of small particles in suspension inside the liquid.

CDRs seem to have their metallic layer attacked ( http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....8482#entry87185 ).

I agree with people using caution before doing any old thing with their beloved cds. All I can say is that in my experience brasso has never adversely affected any original discs that I've used it on. When I have bought second hand cds that are quite badly scratched and songs have jumped, after applying brasso they generally work without complaint. I have used it on cds for 6-7 years and they work fine today.

I imagine this Skip Doctor is equally abrasive on discs and yet costs a lot more money.

Anyway, does skip doctor work magic on cdr's? If so then to hell with brasso!

Pressed CDs can oxidize to death, meaning complete corruption of the data on the disk. I believe this is most likely to happen to disks when the label uses certain funky types of ink. Combine this with high temperatures, and the Aluminum (Aluminium to our UK and associated colonial friends) data layer will oxidize to AlO2 quite readily. In fact, any aluminum metal exposed to oxygen will create a protective AlO2 layer on its surface. This protects the metal under the layer from furthur oxidation, but the layer used in CDs is so thin that there is not much else for the O2 to react with.

If you're lucky, it'll incompletely oxidize or stop at a certain point. I'd anticipate that scratches on the top of the CD (that don't break through and muss up the aluminum layer) will accelerate the process, by removing kinetic impediments to the diffusion of O2.
Most CDs shouldnt have this problem - none of mine do AFAIK, but I rarely use the originals.
Also, this is one problem "gold" disks are guaranteed not to have.

Skip Doctor justs uses distilled water as it is told in this thread. No chemical abrasives are involved in the process and it costs around $30 (motorized one). I want to see it working but I don't have one so I can't really tell how it resurfaces. But its method makes sense to me. I'm sure there're professional gadgets that cost a lot but do this way more efficiently though.



How do the O2 get inside the CD. I thought it is vacuumed and covered with plastic. Unless dented it's weird that CDs let O2 into their reflective layer.

It is, but the plastic isn't a perfect seal 100% of the time, particularly with a reactive ink layer sitting on top of it. O2 doesn't need a big opening
Most CDs do not have this problem, meaning QC is in general pretty good

atici, they don't actually leave a very smooth finish. If you look at one after it's gone through the skip doctor you can see very fine uniform scratches over the whole surface. They are apparently small enough not to really matter, since the device works quite well. The motorized one is nice to have if only for the fact that you ain't crankin' that sumbitch like a bastard if you have to do a bunch of passes or a few discs, heh.

<edit> Well, I should make it a little more clear, the finish that you get does feel smooth to the touch, and it does a good job at getting an error-free rip of previously bad discs. It feels smooth, but looking at it you can plainly see the sanding job's scratches in it.

You can find my quick test of how Skip Doctor worked in a thread I started in EAC Forums:

http://www.digital-inn.de/showthread.php?t...?threadid=10699

Summary: I think it works well, but it's no miracle cure for all scratches.

cheers,
Halcyon

The fun thing is that all the magic seems to be in using a very mild abrasive. I've heard good things about toothpaste - plus it's a bit cheaper... I'm gonna give it a try today as EAC won't extract an old CD of mine.

Atici, why dont you just do as Nietschze would have done and try the advice you have been given? Otherwise when you next want advice you may find people can't be bothered.

Hey I'm trying to figure out my options. I didn't order the Skip Doctor yet but I am not eager to use metal polish on my CDs. I don't want to put them into Fubar condition. Skip Doctor is around $25 and I can spend as much as $60. I don't want to order it until I make sure it's the best gadget I can buy for that price range.

And also this thread is not only about me and my problems but for HA community to discuss this issue in general. Maybe someone else will make use of your suggestions as much as I do.

From what I understand Skip Doctor is designed to do one thing - repair damaged cds. You may find that it does its job very well. You may also find any number of other household abrasive products do any equally good job.

I just believe people should be aware that they are spending more money than they need to for the same result. Have fun spending your money on products whose methodology you find scientific.

Hey, no offense! I appreciate your help. It was just a discussion thread in which we discuss all alternatives. Your method might have worked well for you, but I am entitled to my opinion in the end, eh ?

One thing that popped up that you're probably well aware of by now, is this article:

http://www.burningissues.net/how_to/scratc...ratchrepair.htm

It suggests that Crystal Disc Restorer works as well as Brasso (but is more expensive). Mad props to you if you can find where Crystal Disc Restorer is actually sold.

Wov, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks!

Did anyone use SkipDoctor MD Pro? I wonder what the difference of pro version is other than a heavy-duty motor.

And can we use Brasso or Crystal Disc instead of the resurfacing fluid that comes with Skip Doctor? or would it damage the disc?

@t.g.deck : I also wonder your results with toothpaste

I've done that before. And, the funny thing is that... it works... but just for a certain period. I mean, if you use that method, the next thing to do is to make of copy of the cd that has just been rescued. This is just a temporary solution (for those who don't want or can't spend money).

ps: use only plain toothpaste, not multicolored toothpaste.

It looks like it's got better gears too. I haven't opened my motorized one up, but I'm sure it's probably got the same plastic gears that my hand-crank one did. I sincerely doubt it needs metal gears, unless perhaps you're actually using it several times a day every single day, as a small used CD store might if they are small enough to not really justify spending tons of money on an expensive resurfacer. I've had my motorized one for quite a while now and I doubt with casual use like mine it will ever wear out, so I wouldn't bother with that Pro version.

This site also claims to be helpful, but given the level of professionalism in the website, I don't know how far I'd trust it (i.e. It seems VERY sketchy).

http://www.cd-repair-kit.com/

Wellll... It didn't help much. The CD is clean as my teeth never were - but obviously the problem didn't stem from those tiny scratches... I get 'timing' errors. Anyway, I wasn't plainly a mad-hatter, suggesting toothpaste. Ppl have actually reported to have used it on their DVDs with success, heh.

Yes it will!
It will even damage the SkipDoctor!
As I said before, the SkipDoctor is just a practical and clever way to use sandpaper on a CD. It is basically just a strip of sandpaper glued to a wheel-like device that spins the disc while buffing it.
There are some kinds of sandpaper that require water to function (I used to know why, because in my country in High School, you must learn some "technical" ability, mine was learning to work some machine and tools, like a workshop). The one SkipDoctor uses is one of them. And it has to be water (it doesn't really matter if it's destilled of not).

Try to imagine what would happen if instead of using water in a device that requires it, you instead used some greasy semi-solid substance. It's gonna get real messy, I'll tell you that.


About, toothpaste, I tried that myself (specially the ones with baking soda) and it does work wonders on small, shallow scratches. The thing is that it is kinda difficult to apply it (I rubbed it in circular motion until my fingertips went numb) correctly and maybe if you rub it too hard the plastic will become too blurred (no good, of course)

The advantage I see in SkipDoctor, is that, while being equally effective than some "home remedies". It is, in fact, "more scientific" (sorry dude), meaning that you can count on it to offer the most reliable and consistent results, with little risk of damaging your disc further. With brasso and toothpaste it is basically a matter of patience and trial and error, and it is risky (and I know what I am talking about as I screwed a couple of CDs using both methods). SkipDoctor it is more dumb-proof

I hope I made my point clear enough.

Here's the scan of a partially skipdoctored CD.



From my experience, skipdoctor is stronger than brasso. The above result is got after polishing the CD with the buffer included after the skipdoctor pass. It looked "froster" just after the raw abrasion. More than I could get with Brasso.

I have tried just about everything suggest at HA except for the butane torch idea. I have a motorized skip doctor, Brasso, Novus plastic polish, tooth paste, Vaseline, 2500 and 2000 grit emery paper. I use some seriously scratched disks and I find that no single method is a cure all. If I find a major scratch I use the emery paper followed by either Novus or skip doctor. Emery paper works better on scratched that are deep but localized. It's easier to stay in one area manually than it is with Skip Doctor. The abrasive surface on the skip doctor is finer that the emery paper, so it is a good finishing step. I feel like I'm rambling so let me know if you have any questions.