I am going to be encoding *most* of my CD's to a digital format. My problem is deciding on which format to go. I have two choices. MP3 and AAC. I am listing AAC because I do have a Mac. I can use iTunes 4 to rip and encode (128kbps) using QuickTime 6.3 or I could use EAC/LAME compile thats mentinoned on this site...3.90.3 I believe, and I would use the alt-preset extreme setting.

I am going to be using these files on a stereo, and also a iPod for portable playback, but I'm more concerned with quality.. I dont want to redo all this work in 6 months, or so...

So which would you prefer..

1 - iTunes 4 (AAC 128kbps with QT 6.3)
2 - Exact Audio Copy (LAME 3.90.3 using alt-preset extreme)

xan2k1

Come on, you wanna rip AAC in 128 kbps, but --alt-preset extreme for LAME? That's comparing apples and oranges.

EAC with LAME --alt-preset standard is already superior (and this is what i would choose).

Why not AAC 160 or 192 kbps? I imagine that should yield a quality roughly equivalent to APS/APE resp. at a lower bitrate...

I can not hear a difference between the 128kbps and 192kbps AAC files encoded using iTunes/QT...

I'm really asking which is the better sounding codec? MP3 or AAC? disregard the bitrates...

would you use iTunes/QT or EAC/LAME?

LAME MP3, specifically the alt preset standard, insane and extreme with 3.90.3 compile are far more tuned for tranparency in most samples than AAC is at this point. Right know, if your concern is quality regardless of bitrate (for those two choices) I would go with LAME -aps, just because it has been around lomg enough to prove it delivers on any kind of music. The disadvantage, if you may, is that there is probably not much more room for improvement, which is the case of AAC. Maybe in the near future, AAC will be tuned to match the quality of -aps at smaller bitrates, but who knows.

Of course, there is the issue of what can YOU actually hear. I suggest try to encode the same file with all your candidate settings and do some hearing tests, in ABX fashion. You might be surprised, to say the least.

Your second question is easier to answer: EAC is the only "secure" ripper known to man. This means that, properly configured, you can trust it blindy if it tells you a rip went good or bad. You will soon learn that this is priceless.

For proper EAC use, check out the FAQ

thanks for the great reply! Very good amount of info, and pointing me to the EAC FAQ file helps a lot as well.

Thanks again!

I've heard that people are having problems w/ Plextor "Premium" using EAC? I have this drive...is that true?

>you can trust it blindy if it tells you a rip went good or bad.

Not quite blindly, a test was run on HA that calculated the rate of 'double errors' that give the same result (which EAC would say was a 100% error free rip).

Wait until it gets AccurateRip

Unfortunately not. See the latest article in "validated news". But I hope that it will be fixed soon.

@Spoon: I forgot about AccurateRip. Hope Andre implements it soon (I hope Andre develops EAC any further, but that is another story ) Still, most of the time, whatever EAC tells you is right.

@R.A.F.: Still, most of the time, whatever EAC tells you is right. It could (and should) be perfect, though, I agree. I think that the "EXACT" part of EAC's name will only be achieved when AccurateRip is implemented. But, you also know that EAC is still ahead (no pun intended ) of any other ripper.

so you all think EAC will be updated to include accuraterip code?

Both Plextools and EAC can make perfect rips. That's according to HA

Give Plextools a try, you will be very happily surprised. It's _much_ faster than EAC in secure mode, and it can handle scratched disks better.

But do not take my word, try it! It's free....

To tack on more about the codec comparison - it's not really possible to compare them without recognizing the bitrate differences. Lame APS is going to be probably 50% bigger than 128kbps on average. At 128kbps for both, no doubt AAC will be better (check out the recent test). But Lame APS or probably even APM will beat AAC 128kbps hands down. If you consider AAC @128 acceptable, alt-preset extreme would be way overkill.

However, you also mentioned you don't want to reencode 6 months down the road. By 6 months down the road your ears might well be able to hear artifacts in lots of songs encoded with AAC @128. Only a couple of the AAC samples in the 128kbps test were transparent to me, and I haven't even put much effort into training my ears. Some had pretty substantial artifacts.

So, basically to answer the original question:
Lame aps or ape will almost certainly sound better than AAC @128.
At 128kbps, AAC sounds much better. It it is probable that AAC sounds better at other bitrates too.
Lame aps or ape will be transparent on most songs. It is not yet known at what bitrate/settings AAC will sound equivalent because AAC is less tested.
Lame aps, ape and even api are known to fail significantly on some samples.

Where do I get it?

Go to CDfreaks.com, browse through the news archive. You'll find there the news when the latest version of PlexTools was released. The link for download should be there.
You could try the software section of CDRInfo.com, also.

Those are the websites (legal, that is ) that come to my mind right now.

Edit: There you go. I saved you some work
Edit2: And just in case that didn't work (I had some spare time )

I might have a problem!

Here is what I'm wanting to do... I want to have all (as most as possible) with me, especially when I'm in my truck driving, which I do quite a bit of daily. I have bought a 30 GB iPod. Plenty of HD space - so I can really load it up!

I've already decided for sure to use EAC/LAME using alt-preset extreme

I'll rip and encode the music on my PC then transfter them to my Mac thru home home network. NP there at all.

Here is where I *might* have a problem:

I have a factory stereo w/ CD and Casette.

How bad would the music sound from the iPod going thru a cassette adapter? I dont want to buy a new head unit just for an aux port....

what do you all think? Would it sound bad?

Well, cassette players have a bad stereo seperation, a bad SNR and a bad frequency response. Usually they don't go past 14...16 KHz. So --alt-preset extreme would definitely be overkill, --aps would be MORE than enough.

Of course the whole thing may still sound enjoyable if you're sitting in a truck, which isn't the most quiet vehicle, i suppose. Buying a new head unit therefore might not result in a sound quality boost.

Burn CDs or get a radio adapter. Quality is pretty good on the better ones.

Where can I get a cheap and good radio adapter?

I am tired of using the cassette adapter when using the family car (I have an in-dash MP3 player on mine).

Maybe this thread should prove to be helpful, as a starter or something.

In my experience, a cheap cassette adaptor can give excellent results. Depends on the combination of portable CD player and in-car cassette deck.




No, cassettes often have those things. It's much less of a problem with a cassette adaptor. There's no actual tape hiss, so the SNR limit is the player - often (but not always) more than good enough for in-car use! There's no real tape particles involved, so the HF limit of tape doesn't apply either - again, it's just the limit of the player.

The two most audible problems with some cassette tapes: wow and flutter (i.e. slow or fast speed variations), and incorrect azimuth (i.e. the head angle dosn't match the one used to record the tape, so the high frequencies are lost) cannot happen with a cassette adaptor because there is no cassette tape!.


However, a hidden FM solution obviously looks much more cool (and can be more convenient) than using a cassette adaptor. Remember FM stereo doesn't have any info above 15.5kHz though - and that's a hard limit which no device can break through.

Cheers,
David.

If you get a cheap cassette adapter, be sure to keep the receipt. I got one for my car's stock stereo ('88 Camery), it didn't like it for whatever reason. When I say it didn't like it, the stereo kept ejecting after determining it wasn't a tape.

I learn something new almost anytime I am on this forum

i love this forum! i couldn't begin to tell you all how much I've learned about music and such!

i do have one issue remaining... what do I use to rip my music? I have two drives: Plextor PlexWriter "Premium", which is currently NOT able to be used in EAC, and then for my DVD needs I have a brand new Pioneer DVR-A06U. How good is the A06's ripping quality... I'm almost afraid to use something to rip my music that doesnt have the "Plextor" name on it....

Congratulations!
You sure have "good taste" in drives. I just got the Sony DRU-500 myself (good ripping abilities, can rip my protected CDs!)

Well, look: not too long ago, Plextor was famous because the difference between their drives ripping capabilities and those of the competition where, well enormous. Right now, the difference almost nonexistant. I would say that the only real difference is the possibility to use PlexTools. Some people would even say that is no difference to care for.

What I am trying to say is that pretty much anything you get these days will give good results on a (again) PROPERLY CONFIGURED EAC. The drives differences are focused on 3 fields, on my opinion:
1.- Copy protection-> AFAIK, the Plextor Premium should take care of anything we have seen so far, so, if you come across such a CD, rip with PlexTools.
2.- Ripping scratched CDs-> I would try to repair the CD first, usually this does the trick and NOT the drive.
3.- Speed-> I think you would get decent secure mode EAC speeds with any of your drives. Besides, are you running a factory?

Such differences aside, SOUND QUALITY will be the same for any drive. WITH A PROPERLY CONFIGURED EAC.
Use "Detect read features" at least 3 times. If the resulting settings are the same, hit "Apply", disable C2* if it got selected and you'll be fine.

* If you want to test the REAL C2 capabilities of your drive, go to the EAC website. Download the "DAE Quality" program. Follow instructions. But, let me tell you, A LOT of people in HA completely distrust C2 and advice against this setting on EAC. You might want to search the forum on the subject before you make your own mind.

thanks for the info...as always I learn something new here all the time!

I will prob be getting rid (selling to someone I know) the Plex Premium drive if the A06U works as well as your making it sound like...

so you think tha A06 will make good rips from audio CD's as well as the plextor Prem? If you only had one choice, which would it be?

The DVD writer, my friend.

As I told you, I think that you should not have MAJOR performance differences between both drives (and if the Plex is not supported by EAC, I would dump it inmediately), that is, unless you are running a factory of pirated CDs

Look, I think the DVD writer is way more useful these days, meaning that it will do pretty much you want it to... and for a fraction of the Plextor's cost you could get a cheap CD burner with awesome C2 implementation and the ability to kill all audio CD copy-protections like the LiteOn 52x burner (PM me if you want the exact model number, as I don't have it right now, or better yet, do a search )

So there you go, for what is worth.

thanks a lot for the info - its been real helpful. Where can I find a listing of the various drive offsets? and how important is it to use these when ripping?

Short answer: OFFSETS ARE NOT IMPORTANT

Long Answer

which version of EAC should I be using for encoding lots and lots of tunes?

Its been a long time since I last used EAC, and I see that there is now a prebeta???

The latest one
Exact Audio Copy 0.95 prebeta 3

It's got some features that the other older versions don't.
Don't let the "prebeta" part scare you.

could you post a profile or something... there are so many options!

I've looked at www.chrismyden.com and used a profile listed there under his "Elite DAE" could someone that knows about EAC take a look at it and see if its good?

I'm not sure if its made for the prebeta release? maybe there's new features disabled or something...

I dont know!

Thanks

I checked Chris' site and it seems to be kinda outdated.
PM me with your email adress and I send you what I use and I will help you set it up specially for your drive.
I encode to LAME -aps MP3, by the way (with the recommended compile, of course)