I lucked into this pair for $140 shipped (brand new) after a misprint on a website (AcousticSounds.com). Long story, and covered in detail over on Head-Fi (they were supposed to be Grado SR225s).

Oh how sweet these sound... my Denon AH-D950s have been conquered. I heard the 580's briefly (too briefly it seems) at a recent Seattle audio meet, only long enough to determine that I liked them. Now that I have a pair, I think most of my other cans will be retired to the closet. I hear no "veil" or anything like that, these are full range cans with incredible detail and clarity. Didn't think I'd mess with Sennheisers again after my experience with the HD-280 Pro, but these have definitely changed my mind -- I must have gotten a bad pair.

Anyway... Sennheiser will be releasing the HD-650 pretty soon and these will probably drop in price (relegated to Senn's "entry level high end" model) so the time may be soon for a lot more people... these truly sound incredible in my opinion. Perhaps not the best for metal fans due to the "soundstage" characteristics (not too upfront) and not much "slam," but almost anything else... sweetness.

Edit (sources) -- M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 -> Creek OBH-11/upgraded PS -> headphones.

I agree totally, the 580's are impeccable cans in just about every way. Admittedly they don't have the pretty carbon fiber finish of the 600's, but since they both use the same driver and the 580's are ~$200 less (MSRP), I don't see the as a compelling reason to upgrade Have you tried any classical on them yet?

OH yeah ... that's the first thing I fed them ("Scheherazade," Bernstein, Corigliano, 1959 on Sony Classical), in fact I'm listening to this recording at the moment. The hiss from the analog master tape really comes out clearly (at an almost distracting level - glad they didn't try to remaster it out tho), but the instruments sound much more like they should than any pair of cans I've listened to yet. I meant to go out and get the mail about a half hour ago, but haven't been able to tear myself away from listening yet.

So the 580's really use the same sound drivers as the 600's. You are telling me a 130.00 us price differences is merely for looks? I have been looking at the 600's with lustful eyes, now I wonder if I should save a few bucks for my birthday.

The earpads are slightly different I believe, and the connector cables may be even MORE oxygen free.
Here is the 580 main page, and Here is the 600 main page.

Here's the spec sheet for the 600, and Here is the 600 spec sheet.
Feel free to find quantifiable differences in the frequency response, contact pressure, impedance, load rating, THD, hell even weight....

Audible! --

Any way to make these more comfortable? I'm not getting the "legendary" comfort, if anything they're quite a bit more uncomfortable than my Denons with 'pleather' pads. Because of the size, the bottom of the pads are pressing on my jugulars (!) and I swear I got dizzy a few minutes ago and had to take them off... is it just a matter of normal stretch with wearing them, or should I fiddle with the headband adjustment more... (?)

BTW, one thing I noticed is that the distance of ears from the drivers has much less effect than with closed cans (nice benefit... sound stays the same no matter how loose or tight, no "seal" required).

Supposedly the HD600 have matched pairs of drivers also. But I don't think that really matters very much so yes it's basically the looks you pay extra for. When I bought mine a couple of years ago they were about the same price (~210€) anyway so I saw no reason to choose the 580...

I also thought they pressed really hard on (around) my ears in the beginning. Guess they have to, because of the weight. But now I'm not bothered by it anymore. If it is because I got used to it or because they loosened up I don't know...

You might want to screw around adjusting them a bit more. I believe certain places sell replacement pads if it stays uncomfortable, though.

edit:

Yeah I prefer open cans, the sound seems more "diffuse" and "natural" in some way. I wish I could quantify it without using touchy-feely audiophile-y adjectives that mean next to nothing, though

After experiencing both types (more closed models than open tho) I think I like both, for different reasons. Sort of a matter of being 5 or 6 rows back from the stage with open cans, or up on the stage with the musicians with closed models -- either of these is OK with me. For audio work like click/pop removal from vinyl to digital, I'd take closed cans anyday -- also, I think as far as hard rock and metal, give me closed cans for the visceral bass and head pounding impact (as long as it's clean bass).

These Senns just sound so fluid and sweet tho... I listen to far more music that benefits from HD-580 type attributes than Sony V6/7506-type qualities, so I'm really happy I ended up with these.

Well, this thread pushed me over the edge I think. I'll be ordering a pair of Senn HD580s first thing Monday.

I *just* bought a pair of Grado SR-80s, the sound of which I'm very impressed with especially considering the price of under $100. But they HURT. My ears are (I think) smaller than average, and although the Grados are supra-aural on most people, they are almost circum-aural on me. Maybe that's the problem. The pain I'm receiving is from the inner edge of the earpads pressing on the outside edge of my ears, but the pain only begins after wearing them for over 30 minutes (which is often, though, as I wear them at work, DJing the occasional party, etc.) I've tried moving them around on my head a little, and even considered pulling out the knife and doing one of the earpad "mods" for Grados I've read about on HeadWize. I guess I just have something against having to cut the (so far) nicest cans I've ever owned just to make them fit right (even if it's just cutting the pads).

After wearing them half-an-hour or so, I've got to pull out my Sony MDR-ED228 plugs (which sound pretty damn good themselves when driven by the Xin supermini amp), but I really want a full-headphone I can wear for longer periods also.

I've read many reviews of the HD580s on HA, Head-Fi, epinions, and elsewhere, and the vast majority of feedback is positive. I just found a site that has them for $159, so my mind's made up. I'm jealous of the $140 price , but $100 off MSRP ($259) is not too bad either.

I really just lucked into that price... wouldn't have bought them for a penny more (straining my budget as it is ) but there's always the option of a used pair coming up on the Head-Fi "Gear for Sale" forum... very trustworthy bunch over there, and prices are almost always excellent.

BTW, hopefully you have a half decent amp... imo these wouldn't sound good at all unamped -- 300 ohms, and sensitivity is on the lowish side (not bad though at 97dB). My Creek OBH-11 seems to drive them just fine, if the sound is any indication.

The Echo Indigo sound card has what seems like a very strong amp, but I haven't tried anything with very high-impedance on it yet. My Grados are only 32 ohm, and I don't know what the Sony earbuds are but I'm sure they're low impedance (as most buds are).

Also, the guy who builds the Xin Super Mini apparently made some previous mods to the amp to support high-impedance headphones (with the HD580s specifically mentioned...page search for "HD580" to find reference). So hopefully I'll get good performance from the Senns. And the amp's tiny, too, so I can carry it in a headphone bag easily (as I do in my Grado bag now) so wherever the Sennheisers go, it'll go.

Thanks for the info!

I ordered the Beyerdynamic DT 880s recently and am still waiting for them to ship. I've been hoping to do the 64kbps test with them, but guess I'll just have to take my old phones.

I've been eyeing the 580s Sennheisers too, but somehow I have a built in affinity for Beyerdynamic. I'm looking forward to them!

Like ErikS said, I have the feeling they get more comfortable over time. I borrowed a pair from a colleague of mine a couple of times before I got my own, and I had to fiddle a lot with the new pair in the beginning to make it sit properly on my head wheras his pair would just sit comfortably from the beginning. Now, a couple of months later, I don't have any problems with my pair either.

I own a pair of 600's and from what I've heard, the several component's selection level is higher (in terms of tolerable differences) than with the 580's ...

This leads to the conclusion that a good pair of 580's will sound exactly like a pair of 600's ... but (if my info is true) the likeliness of getting a pair of 580's with a higher tolerance is therefore higher ...

The 600's are available for 200€ in germany ...

http://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/sennheiser/...iser_hd_600.php ...

The 580's cost 150€ ...

http://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/sennheiser/...0_precision.php

Can anyone compare HD580 to AKG 240Studio and Beyerdynamic DT880?

A friend has owned a pair of Grado SR-60s for ages, and I found them practically unbearable, though they sound nice. Apparently there are after-market companies putting out custom earpads. For the life of me I can't understand why a company makes a product that has a reputation for causing pain.

a friend at work had some 580s, they seemed ok.. I didn't like the feel of them compared to the 600s... they are supposed to be damn close in sound though.. there are a list of differences, most of which i guess have been outlined above.. anyways i've had HD600s for 3-4 years now and i just love them... mine losened up very quickly and they are so comfortable.. the sound they make is very pleasing too... I have Beyer Dynamic DT250-80s for work phones (with a fixup amp driven line out from my nomad jukebox3 fed with --alt-preset extreme/insane mp3s), they are built like a rock... nice isolation too lending to a lovely inky backdrop to your music.. I mostly listen to electronica and i think the 250-80s really gel with that... sources and amp quality aside my HD600s are always seemingly more detailed.. i think the HD600s give a headphone sound unlike a lot of other cans, that the drivers sit off from the ear more i think gives it a more out of head experience.. I remember being blown away when i first got into them... being open tho background noises (computer fans, normal fans etc) does detract from your tunes... there is a big difference between being in a silent room with them and a room with "equipment" switched on...

Check out some of my binaural recordings (or someone elses) with your HD600s they are very nice at resolving that soundfield... They're also superb with dolby headphone and DVD soundtracks at trying to copy the binaural experience... in fact they're most used and enjoyed for this at the moment... my projector and dolby headphone with them leads to a VERY nice immersive experience... that headphone detail retrieval turned up to the max meaning you hear everything in the movie soundtrack that i just dont think would be as clear with nearly any 5.1 speaker setup (tho of course you would get better effect placements with real speakers still in the right setup and room)

I also own Etymotic ER-4P ear phones and they are pretty damn special... their sound is even more unique than HD600s but their isolation is out of this world... thats the inky blackness i was talking about earlier x2... there is something about the colour (not colouring) of tones with them that is just superb.. better than HD600s... being in-ear their soundstage is just bizarre and very much in the head, but a complex musical arrangement just arrives at your ears in a very accessible manner.. its just so easy to relax and easily take in the whole musical picture at once... this is not exactly hard with other cans but that is the winning feature for me... what stops me from using the etys more is that they are a bit fiddly to setup in your ears, and sometimes can be a bit uncomfortable... at the end of the day my HD600s can just fall onto my head and its all there... with etys you get a huge variance of quality depending on how they've sat in your ears and what kind of a seal you get... its kinda neat cause they do sound a lot different from time to time, but that inconsistency can also get on your nerves when it doesn't sound right and you are not in the mood..

Headphones rock.. I may have to get some more but to be honest i'm kinda covered on all bases.. I've never liked grados as i just feel they look horribly cheap and uncomfortable... some higher range beyers may be nice but i think i'll be getting a better headphone amp first... though i am looking forward to getting a proper listening room setup again and buying some new speakers and a cinema sound setup to match my projector... one things for sure i guess i better get saving my money... thankfully with the recent discussions on hifi voodoo i'll be able to be far more reserved with audio cable budgets (not to mention power cables.. pah!!) .. just want to test my own expensive cables against cheap tat to finally prove to myself that its not audible, and then try to restrain myself from going back to my dealer and forcing him to blind test and fail and then refund my money two fold

enjoy the music talking of which, have we got the music forum online yet?!? be nice to get some cool discussions on that going, after all thats what all this techonology (both software and hardware) is for.. just allowing us to enjoy more music, and perhaps better "quality" music from a recording standpoint.. then we'll have to work on the actual quality of performances and music itself, something i fear the pop markets are going to be done for with, at least in the UK

I had a similar problem with the Grado headphones. I must warn you before you get the Sennheisers that I have had the same thing to a lesser extent with the HD580's. After a while the outer edges of my ears just hurt and I can't wear them anymore. I then have to revert to ear buds because the comfort is more important than the sound for me. The pain was present with the Grados within 15 minutes of use, and it takes a lot longer with the Sennheisers - but - it still happens and I wanted to warn you before you spend the money on them.

FYI, try before you buy (for extended periods if possible)

I must have an unusual head size (?) because I can feel my ears touching the foam on the inside (they're still off my head more than other cans I've used tho). When I pull the earcups out a couple mm the "soundstage" improves, and frequency response changes slightly.

IMO this is the major problem with headphones: varying sizes and shapes of head, as well as placement (height, angle of earcups, etc). It can affect the sound drastically, and probably accounts for more reports of different impressions about a particular headphone than anything else.

Fewtch why didn't you like the HD 280 Pros? I love theese as well as my Sony 7506 Pros. They do sound very different than the HD-580/600s though.

Sorry, I'm not starting with that again... try a search to find the original thread, where it was discussed in nauseating detail.

I found the thread of wich you speak . I don't really find the 280s lacking in bass as you did. I have heard better, but they were a steal for $100 and I don't have to worry about banging them up too much at that price. They also have incredible isolation (wich I need) and are comfortable to wear for long periods of time (though not as comfy as 580s mmm... velvet) I did like my Sony MDR-7509 Pros better when I compared them against the 280s briefly (a little bit tinny sounding as you described). I won't have my 7509s around for reference until I get back to the states, in the meantime the 280s have really grown on me.

The 280s do sound alot more "In Your Face" than the HD 580s/600s though. In the end you gotta go with what sounds good to you.

Yep, they were a steal (my $100 was stolen ). Anyway, I returned them and got some closed cans I really liked (and still like) for the same price, Denon AH-D950. It's possible I got a pair with bad drivers, or was getting a poor seal due to wearing glasses... this issue with HD-280 "like it or hate it" has been discussed so often on Head-Fi it's hardly worth rehashing here.

Hmm, I do not see the headphones you speak of listed on Denon's website. The highest model they list is the AH-D550. They are Denon Pros right? I don't believe I have ever seen nor listened to Denon headphones either at a HiFi shop or a Pro Audio shop, where did you find a pair to listen to?

They're discontinued (check Denon's site in the "discontinued items" section). I got a pair used (mint, used only an hour or so) from someone on Head-Fi.org after putting a WTB: ad in the "Gear for Sale" section of the board.

As far as people's impressions (if you're curious):

http://www.epinions.com/elec_Audio-Headpho...D-Denon_AHD-950

http://www.audioreview.com/Headphones/Deno...15_2750crx.aspx

The above link says "open air" but they're really closed cans with vented earpieces (decent isolation, not as good as the HD-280).

I had that too - try "twisting" the cups a bit (you can rotate them a few degrees forwards/backwars), that solved it for me after a bit of fiddling, now I don't have that problem anymore.

Thanks... that helped a little, but my left ear is still contacting the foam. I suppose I'll get these "perfectly" adjusted eventually in the course of normal use. Unlike some other headphones (*cough*grado*cough*), I hear very little sonic difference from twisting the cups, adjusting the headband, etc. (a good thing, I think).

Oh, these cans are so sweet... currently listening to the "Titanic" soundtrack, not everyone's favorite but I think a good test of how headphones perform across the frequency spectrum. Without wanting to gush too much, it's like waves of sound washing over me, almost a full body experience -- difficult to describe the experience objectively in terms of frequency balance, etc.

Other than saying low bass sounds amazingly clean and balanced, I'll just let the right brain take over for this one...

Has anybody of you ever compared the HD-580 to the HD-535 (the one I currently own) ?

Everytime I read glowing reviews of the HD-580 and HD-600, I'm tempted to buy one, but I wonder how much difference it will make compared to my current HD-535. I haven't had a chance to listen to a HD-580 or HD-600 yet.

Hmmmm....decisions....decisions...

As I write this, I'm doing some final research before whipping out the credit card. I've found this review at goodcans.com, which says that the Sennheiser HD-580 is being gradually discontinued and replaced with the HD-590. (But I can't find a date on the article, so I can't tell how old this information is.) It says there is no huge difference between these models, except for some minor variances in construction, and no difference in audible sound quality (according to the author of the review). Granted, this is a .com site, which (generally) means they are selling whichever product is their "favorite" as dictated by profit as much as by what offers real value. So as I'm reading it I'm keeping that part in mind.

Also, my eyes keep going to the HD-600. *sigh*

OK...prices...it's gotta be worth the money, right? 10% "better" doesn't justify 50% more money. Lowest prices I've seen on each of these, using etronics as my first reference (as I've heard they have a pretty good rep and really low prices)...

HD-580 - MSRP $259.95. etronics: "Our latest price on item Sennheiser HD-580 Circumaural Headphones is $157.00." Nice!

HD-590 - MSRP $269.95. etronics: "Our latest price on item Sennheiser HD-590 Prestige Dynamic Audophile Headphones with Bionetic Design is $163.89." Nice!!!

HD-600 - MSRP $449.95 (?). (:holding breath:) etronics: A button that says "Email me when this item is available." Headroom (www.headphone.com) has them listed at $229.00, but out of stock.

So far I've only heard of marginal differences between all three models. Only physical design differences between the 580 and 590, with supposedly the same sound quality. The 590's have been reported as being slightly more comfortable and having a slightly better cord design. I've heard the 600's have a little better sound characteristics (or just better stats, perhaps?), but might be a little *less* comfortable than the 580 or 590 because they're somewhat heavier.

BOTTOM LINE: ...IMO, and considering that I'm ready to buy now and won't be waiting any longer...The price difference of $6.89 justifies the HD-590 over the HD-580. Especially considering that my *only* complaint about my Grado's is comfort related, so I'm putting some more emphasis on comfort than other people might. However, even if I could get them right now, the HD-600 at $65.11 more than the HD-590 is a difference I probably could not justify. (And yes, I'm basing this partly on the fact that in Roberto's recent 64kbps listening test I rated perhaps half of the test groups at 5.0 , and therefore would likely not benefit from a marginal difference in sound quality from various high-end headphones.)

And with the money I save, maybe I'll grab a pair of MX-500's for $14 to replace my Sony MDR's. Etymotics?...heh, maybe next year when my personal "audio equipment overspending plan" starts over.

@PoisonDan: I looked and looked for the HD-535 to see if anyone had compared them with the 580/590/600, but couldn't find any reviews or comparisons. Sorry. Maybe someone else who owns a pair of them will jump into this thread.

As most thing related to audio quality this has been discussed before here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6718

Frank Klemm strongly recommends to stay away from HD590. That would be enough reason for me to get the HD580/600 instead...

Otherwise I think they are excellent when it comes to comfort. Their design look similar to HD570 and those are the most comfortable headphones I ever tried. But of course different shaped heads/ears might like different headphones.

Arrgh! OK, I'm calling etronics to change my order when they finally open. I remember seeing that thread, only it was a while back so it wasn't fresh in my mind.

I just hope I can get them shipped before someone says "Don't get 580's either!" (J/K)

Edit: Reading more reviews, and people seem to like the HD-590's although the consensus is that they're considerably brighter than the 580/600. A lot of reviews say to "break them in and they mellow out", but I've also read posts here that say break-in is mostly placebo BS. *sigh* I'm thinking about just getting the 590's and trying them out for a week or so. If I don't like them I can always exchange them (etronics has a 30-day refund policy). Anyway, comfort is a driving factor for me, and I have yet to hear anyone say they're uncomfortable.

It sucks being a newbie sometimes...I wish I could just know all this stuff.

Then again, it makes me that much more thankful of HA members for knowing what I don't, and for educating me.

slightly OT, sorry!

I can surely relate to that! After being unable to hear much differences in the 64 kbps test, I decided I needed a better pair of headphones ASAP, and ended up buying the Audio Technica ATH-M40fs (the best I could afford, and actually the best I could find over here). Better than my "old" (3 months!) Technics, but I think they are by no means considered even "entry level" At least my 10 year old daughter is happy, she got the Technics


Cheers, Joey.

The 590's have been called the most dynamic or "Grado-like" of the upper Senn line. So ScorLibran you may prefer them. For those that prefer the more neutral Sennheiser sound, the 580's are probably far preferable. I've tested the 590's and had the 580's for a week and as long as you have the power to drive the 580's (300 ohm impedance versus the 590's 120), the 580's (or 600's) would be what I'd suggest. They are really a pretty big step up. Plus I guess I think the 580's do Sennheiser better than the 590's do Grado (if that makes sense). I say that as a Grado man. I like the 225's (probably the most laid back or "Senn-like" of the Grados Prestige line) overall better than either Sennheiser. Wish I could afford both. Having a pair of 225's and a pair of 580's/600's would be incredible.

Do get 580s. Or 600s.

For what it's worth, I've been researching headphones intensively for the past couple months (just for fun), and of course own the 580s. I think you will not be disappointed, particularly if you appreciate detail and subtlety from a pair of cans rather than the usual "in your face, up on stage with the performers" sound. They are sweet.

Everything I've read on Head-Fi suggests that the HD-590 are not a good choice for most people, particularly if you're looking for neutrality (which I assure you is not 'boring sounding' in any way, shape or form). This coming from a guy who's listened to very forward, in your face "smiley-EQ" closed cans for years with boosted bass and treble and little "soundstage." That's what I was used to when I got the HD-580s, and despite their very different character to what I'm used to they haven't disappointed in the least... quite the contrary, in fact.

One small caveat: If your main preferred musical genre is rock or rap (or any "headbanger" type stuff) you probably won't be happy with the 580/600 because of their "wide open" characteristics... it will make that stuff sound "distant" to some extent.

2 cents...

fewtch if you want a nice Titanic like, but a bit better (imho) test song, try this:

Loreena McKennit - Greensleves (if you can find it) it's 4min 26 sec

search for Greensleves and look past Mozart ones

Now I've heard this so many times just thrown out in the air as a matter of fact statement that I want some proof of why a pair of 300 Ohm headphones have to be quieter than a pair of say 60 Ohms.

In my experience this is wrong! My current 300 Ohm headphones can play as loud or maybe even louder than my previous 32 Ohm ditto. (I think they were 32 Ohm anyway...)

I'm no expert on the technology, but from my headphone testing experience, even 60 ohm to 120 ohm is a significant difference when talking about properly driven (especially from portables). I can drive the 580's even with a low power iPod at 100% volume and it's plenty loud, just not filled in. The equation isn't only impedance (efficiency plays a part), but once you experiment with headphone amps it's a pretty telling story. A 32 ohm Grado is going to sound great without a separate amp, but it certainly improves with additional power. The 580's though are missing something until you give it juice and then it's a whole other beast. You can make it louder, but that's not what I'm talking about. There may be examples of the same or greater/less impedance phones that perform differently or flip-flop from what you expect (again efficiency needs to be considered), but as a general rule, yes your output will need more power to drive a higher impedance set of phones. Certainly the two phones in question, the HD590's and HD580's, have a difference.

I GOT 'EM! I GOT 'EM! The HD-590's, that is...

And I'm a Sennheiser addict now! In just a few hours of ownership, I can't take these things off. Which leads me to my only complaint...they're hot! The 'phones themselves aren't getting hot, it's just the big earpads trapping my body heat, that's all. I gotta turn down the temperature in the room a little to be comfortable with the extra heat next to my head. My girlfriend's already complained to me about making it too cold in the house. She told me to take off the headphones if they're making me hot. "Blasphemy!", I told her!

Anyway, if there actually is a break-in period for headphones, I guess the sound of these phones will change somewhat in the near future. I've had them since 2:00pm today (it's 11:40pm my time right now), and I had them off for only an hour or so since I've had them. They are indeed almost as bright as my Grado's, but not quite as bright. The low-end of the frequency range is more "present" from what I can tell than it is with my Grado 'phones. I've found a few bass notes that I simply couldn't make come through on the SR-80's that are reproduced well with the HD-590. If someone wants specific samples, I can list the songs or even post samples if so requested.

They are 120ohm (vs. the 32ohm SR-80's), and I noticed a significant difference in the ability of my sound card and external amp to drive them. "Normal listening level" for my Grados was two turns up from the bottom on the Echo sound card without the Xin amp connected, or a "middle-ground" setting with the external amp when I wanted the external amp's crossfeed feature. I liked crossfeed with the Grados. It moved the famous "in your head" Grado soundstage out of my head a little.

As for the HD-590 'phones, I plugged them into the Echo without external amplification first, and had to crank the volume wheel two more times (about four turns in all) to get decent ("normal") volume outta the Senns. Also, I can't notice a change in apparent soundstage using the Xin SuperMini crossfeed feature with the Senns vs. not using it at all. The HD-590 naturally provides a soundstage a little further away than the Grado SR-80's, and actually a little further away from me than with the crossfed Grado's as well. That's even without using crossfeed with the Senns. Maybe because I'm used to the soundstage being "close but not inside my head"...not sure yet. One nice thing about the Senns needing more power from the Echo, I can turn up the volume wheel all the way to reach about the loudest I'd ever want to listen but still without discernable distortion, unlike with the Grado's that started giving me a problem if I went up too high (with the bass anyway). I can't say the Senns can go louder than the Grado SR-80's on all frequencies, but they can go louder on bass, and they can reproduce slightly lower frequencies as well (as discussed two paragraphs up).

Before I received them, I was considering whether I had made a mistake in ordering these rather than the HD-580's, and a big thanks specifically to fewtch and PoisonDan for providing info I needed to be aware of about this particular model. I was well-prepared for what to expect even before I opened the box. My next purchase may very well be the revered (and more Sennheiser-like) HD-580 or the HD-600, but since right now I'm "used" to a fairly close soundstage and "bright" sound, I think these are a perfect step into Sennheisers for someone who's only used Grado SR-80's (and some really cheapie low-end Sony's) as their main 'phones. These have a stage wider than the my previous 'phones, and aren't quite as bright. And I'm extremely happy with the sound.

So, conclusion...I'm sticking with them...not sending these back. In fact, I'm not even taking them off. Never. Which reminds me, I have to go find out if my girlfriend will let me wear them to bed...


Edit: LOL! My g/f just asked me if I wanted to marry my new headphones. I said, "I might!"

Cool... glad you're liking 'em . That's what I got the first 3 days or so with my HD-580... couldn't get them off my head. I'm still reaching for them very often and am listening to twice as much music as I did before.

BTW, I found that with some very minor EQ (I'm using the WinAMP EQ as well, the supposedly improved one with v2.91) the HD-580 become better rock cans. I've tried the Shibatch EQ, but it reduces volume in too-large steps and results in my cans being underpowered (so it doesn't work well for me). The v2.91 WinAMP EQ does increase IMD somewhat (clearly audible with that frequency sweep tone) but not too badly, and I use it only with CD audio in DAE mode. A slight boost in bass and treble with certain music, and HD-580 rocks.

Enjoy...

Can you elaborate on this? If it's not about loudness, for which I think efficiency is more important, how can this "filled in"-property be detected? Is there a drop in HF response, weaker bass, etc.?

Not true, as a rule. Look at sensitivity specs for many headphones at http://headwize2.powerpill.org/tech/dbohn1_table.htm

Also, a higher impedance headphone will need less "juice" (current) to be properly driven. On the other side, high impedance headphone have sometimes great impedance variations with frequency, which will induce frequency response variations if driven from a mid or high impedance source.

Edit: however, low impedance headphones are subject to this same issue (impedance variations causing frequency response variations) in ever a greater extent. Just try this excel calculation: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=117545

Edit: an as my next post explains, higher impedance headphones will need higher voltages to sound as loud as a low impedance headphone with same sensitivity.

@KikeG: Is there a reason why the 300-ohm HD-580 sound much quieter from the jack of my AVC Soul MP3 player than my 30-ohm Denon AH-D950? Sensitivity is 97dB for the HD-580 and 106dB for the Denons... is that enough of a difference to sound (really, a lot) quieter at the same volume setting?

Edit -- I wonder if the dB/SPL figures are given differently for these two headphones (@what frequency was it tested)... I could find the full specs somewhere...

Yes, that sensitivity difference together with the higher impedance of the Senns explains that.

This sensitivity figure tells us that, both headphones fed with same power, the Senns will sound 9 dB softer (106-97).

Also, for same output voltage, the Senns will be fed with quite less power, due to their higher resistance. According to Ohm:

P=(V^2)/R

So the sensitivity figure is usually normed to a constant power level?

There are two numbers in my HD280's specifications (SPL):
102 dB (as per IEC 268-7)
113 dB / 1 V_rms

What do they mean?

Yes, sensitivity is sound pressure level produced for a reference power.

In case of speakers, it's SPL at 1 meter in free field when fed with 1 W of power. In case of headphones, the power reference is usually 1 mW, which IIRC is the IEC standard. The other sensitivity figure you list uses voltage, not power, as reference.

Thanks... it sure is nice to read this kind of info. clear cut and well explained here instead of some of the voodoo-ish bunk on Head-Fi. It can be fun to chat casually over there (and even play 'audiophile'), but the BS levels get way too high sometimes. The cable-related threads in particular are maddening. >_<

How do my cables "sound?" Well, no sound ever came out of them...

OT! But you are wrong.
Loudspeaker: wire carrying current in a magnetic field.
Cable: Just becuase the Earth's magnetic field is weak, the current is low and there is no cone attached to it, it does not mean it does not have it's own sound.
Or have you tried to tap on a cable, specially carrying low level signals? Amplified enough, it acts as a microphone.
But please limit yourself to a "good enough" cable (ABX) and do not go to extreme, which seems you are already at!