Hi there,

Even if I don't post that much here, I'm reading on regular basis and use foobar since 0.6, enjoying it a lot just like most of you (replaygain, masstager & APEv2 tags, playlist flexibility, kernel streaming, etc. are brilliant technical choices and work great).

Now several other players last developments (WA3/2.9x, Media Center 9.x, TCMP current betas) have led to Media Libraries (ML), still buggy/to be finalised with these players, but which are IMO a very efficient concept for big database.

Is is planned to implement such ML within foobar ?

This tool is pretty close to Album List, allowing you to produce/modify playlists, but 'on the fly' (no strings to built a tree, criterias to be changed by one click) from criterias (artist, album, year, conductor, tec.) acting like filters on the database, to quickly find corresponding files/the music you want.

On graphical point of view, each criteria is listing the content of one associated tag field (artist for eg.) for all files within database, and constitutes a column. The ML is no more than several of these columns, and associated playlist shows files corresponding to selected artist and/or album and/or conductor, etc.

Considering foobar database speed and reliability, I suppose such a tool would work very well with foobar. So what's your opinion ?

Extended search allows advanced searching from database and playlist.

It needs foobar 0.7 and you can download it from the link above.

Would absolutely love to see something similar. Somehow I can't really get along with the albumlist either. Could be just me though.

Some kind of library with several subwindows would absolutely be cool. Even better if the whole thing could simply be customized using TAGZ.

Ie. the user could choose wich windows displays what kind of information. The following window would then sort by the next definition according to what the user clicked in the previous. Am not sure wether I am expressing myself to clear here, but I hope you get the gist of it.

Basically very similar to the Winamp Library only then customizable with tag strings. Maybe the user could even choose how many subwindows he would like.

I still haven't given up hope someone might write this as a plugin one day, although it does seem like a major undertaking.

I just use the playlist as a media library actually. I've been sort of hopeing someone would make a plugin that took the playlist one step closer to a media library, though it would have to be pretty cool before I'd stop using upnorth's formatting.

Yes it works very well, it's a great tool and I use it quite often, but it does not proceed the same way as a Media Library (ML), ie. like a tool summarising the content of your database, this being as well criterias you can use to find music you are looking for.

Let's see how I would imagine the ML on a basic example. This tool would be made by several "branches", each of them summarising the content of one particular tag : ARTIST, ALBUM, GENRE or YEAR for eg., but as well some personal tags such as CONDUCTOR or PERFORMER. Here is roughly what the tool would look like (identical organisation to WA ML) :



By selecting Mozart from the ARTIST branch for eg., the playlist would display only but all the files from the database related to this artist, and the other branches respectively his albums, the composition dates, the conductors, the performers:



By selecting now Karajan within the branch CONDUCTOR, the playlist would then only display files composed by Mozart AND directed by Karajan, the other branches displaying corresponding albums, etc.



Keeping Karajan but selecting now Tchaikovski, I obtain new playlist proposal from this new pair of criterias. You just have to choose from albums proposed (via ALBUM branch), or to play all the files already filtered...



Well you can see that the ML is a powerful searching tool, but also working as albums & files proposals corresponding on criterias I chose. It is as well a good analysis tool of the content of my files collection on qualitative and quantitative point of view (how many files do I have for classical, for metal, for this precise band, etc.).

The criterias could be 3 or 4 at a time or can remain very simple : by choosing Jazz in the GENRE branch, I obtain all the Jazz files (playlist) and albums (ALBUM branch) from my collection.

The big difference with WA ML is that it would be possible to set any branch to any tag we would like, including personal tag that can be created with APEtag. Branches quantities (2, 3 or even more) could be settable as well.

Obviously, this is just how I see a ML, it's a personal view "from how I would dream it" and all remarks are welcome .

PS. Sorry for my english and the basic "pictures"

Edit : typo

I'd like to give another vote for a media library.
Though it's true that there are already indeed some really powerfull and useful plugins, nothing such as a media library with all the features described by man does exist yet AKAIK.

Can only absolutely third this one. I wonld really love to see a plugin like that. Have actually been hoping for one for a long time.

Could not have discribed it any better then man did already. Make the whole thing customizable and Tagz enabled and you've completely got me.

Now we only need to find us some kind soul who is willing to program something like this. Anybody out there willing to have a go at this?

I'm pretty sure that by version 1.0, we will see some kind of implementation by Peter for a kind of media library or "audio catalog" type thing to quick add and playback files over multiple folders and such.

Something is probably already in the works, and if Peter would like, he could share his thoughts over what kind of system he would implement to playback all the audio files on a persons PC.

Will be GREAT .....

in fact (not a developper .. but) oups . ..... the database and component search are probably enough to buils a user interface subset ..

an other post on media library subject


for my point of view it will be wonderfull to be able to use the potential as this hereunder samples .BUT NOT Necessary with this graphic GUI

Simple buttons included in the popup component window willbe enough
creating a playlist .. and we go .. so .. my needs .. is there .




As you can see this soft give us .. without considering grahic gui is a a display by Key sort .. on :
- artist
- album name
- genre
etc...


here is another sample




smaples & links

Dapyx also abandoned http://www.dapyx-soft.com/

mp3-Explorer http://www.mp3-explorer.com/explorer.htm

... light .. immediate ... and easy
navigation and selection by album/artist/genre/directory
and external player ... support (dapyx support ape/id3, wma)

I think it would be a great feature too.
Like man already said, the main point in having a real Media Library would be the ability to browse the database quickly trough crossed user-defined criteria.

This is not the first time it has been requested, it seems that lots of foobar users are waiting for such a plugin. And foobar would allow the best one possible in this world.

I've been a guest since a long time here, but it's time to post now

I also think this ML feature is, IMO, what is missing in foobar to be the perfect player. Album list and extended search are great features, but they do not replace a true media library as described by man.

I've been waiting for it since I discovered foobar with the 0.5 betas... I'm happy to see I'm not the only one

Man good idea
I like to see it in foobar next generation.

Good explanations of your point view of the ML

Man i think it's a good idea too!

But wait, isn't this what apple just did with their iTunes software?
I'm prity sure it is.
This ML is a must have, by the way...

[OT]
Antibalas and Fela.. neat *thumbs up*

Is that from your collection? Just curious..
[/OT]

imo albumlist can be (ab)used as a ML quite nicely if you tag your files properly and figure out a good sorting string, but that's just my $0.02 .. people with bigger libraries might have different needs.

not my collection
image comes directly from software site ..
but old soft .. don't use it for 3/4 years ago ..

but defintely a simple esasy access ..

i use foobar .. only foobar .. ape/id3v1 tag .. lyrics and cover in separate files

I support the idea of a (customisable) Media Library too

[quote=ssamadhi97,Oct 21 2003, 02:08 PM] [QUOTE=nwn,Oct 21 2003, 04:52 AM] imo albumlist can be (ab)used as a ML quite nicely if you tag your files properly and figure out a good sorting string, but that's just my $0.02 .. people with bigger libraries might have different needs. [/quote]
Yes you can use Album List (AL) working nearly like a ML (and actually both require good files propely tagged), but if those tools are pretty close they do not have he same advantages & disadvantages.

With AL you can built the tree you want (1 branch = 1 additionnal criteria) modifying the strings. However, this being done, the tree is "fixed". With this solution, referring to the simplistic example I used in my previous post, to go from criteria "All Mozart" to "All Karajan", you need to modify the strings... This is not very flexible.

With the ML, you can do that with 2 clicks, not one more.

On the other hand, AL is giving a more synthetic view of the content of your database.

AL + ML would it be the perfect solution ?

Yes!, exactly what I want!. GIVE IT TO ME!

This and some kind of support for viewing from a distance using a IR remote would be great.

-> On-Screen Display
http://www.cqasys.com/projects/kode54/index.php

I still think that MEXP for winamp 2 is the best media libery. If your going to make a ML, you should check that out first.

http://www.mexp.dk

http://www.mexp.dk/images_mexp/shots/mexpanim.gif

All I would want is the album list somewhere where I don't have to click on something of type a key to get to it. Over to the side, or on top, or something like that. It seems to be something that is very integral to how most people listen to thier music and putting it in a toolbar doesn't seem right.

Yes. Another fan of MEXP here. I'm a Foobar user now, but I still use MEXP for organizing my music library. Maybe we should contact Anders Thomsen and ask if he'd be interested in porting it for Foobar???

Good idea. Please do it. It's always good to increase the number of people who develop good plugins for foobar2000.

i already did some time ago. see here:

foobar2k request@mexp forum

regards; ilikedirt

foobar sounds great, but the absence of a media library is a deal breaker.

Isn't Album list enough of a media library? If it isn't, then use it and foo_dbsearch. There's your media library.

No, I don't share that opinion.

The AL allows you to build a tree from the database, with each branch corresponding to one additional criteria. If you want to change those criterias, then you have to modify associated strings... This is not very flexible.
Last version allows you to define several views, still each of them remains frozen without strings modification.

The ML would produce the list of the content of each tag (Artists, Albums, etc.), and then allow you to select one or several of them, as criterias applied on the database content.
It's more "dynamic" and flexible IMO, you are just "building the strings" with selection you define each time.

AL & ML are pretty close, but I think they have different advantages : AL offers a more synthetic view of the global database content, whereas ML is more flexible and propose you 'on the fly' music selection in line with any kind of criteria(s) you apply.

man> I agree with You. I just would change one thing. I belive, that the result of ML selection shouldn't be playlist. You should be able to make a playlist out of it or to add the files to playlist. I really like the ML of WinAMP 5. Thats hwat i,d like to see in foobar2000. I would split the UI into two sections - one of them would be the ML, the other half would be playlist. What do You think about this? Vlada

man i agree too..

A panes based approach like you have described is far better than the tree structure that is album list. Very powerful.

In fact i noticed this when i was using Media center from JRiver or iTunes. No need to stick to the hierarchical way of organising things ala windows explorer.

For larger libraries, panes is way easier than tree.

I expect panes will make an appearance by v1.0

I am new to Foobar, and one of my first thoughts was "wish it had an ML like WA5....", but after playing with it a few days I have found that the database + album list + playlist find are all I need.

I like how I can set the directory restrictions with the database and then use album list to get an explorer like view, of only the directories I want, but without having to parse the directories every time like some of the winamp plugins I have used. I like the album list alot now

I know that it's been well over a year since this thread was posted, but man's Media Library concept is something that Foobar seriously lacks, especially when compared with other music players. Is there any chance of a component like this being made in the near future? Coding-wise I imagine it would be rather similar to the Album list, just with seperate boxes instead of tree nodes. Again the "I'm not a programmer" disclaimer follows, but it makes sense to me..

I think there is every chance that this plugin will be made in the future because foobar already uses a database.

The problem is that no one has found the time to make it, for the time being. But I'm pretty sure we'll have our media library one day

Just discovered "Album list panel".

THIS is the start of a ML.

If only we could have more than one ALP running together and linked in cascade (sorry if I say something wrong, or worse, stupid..) the trick would be done. I'll try to explain my point of view.

Imagine:

first ALP = like it is now - let's say we choose "year" as its key

second panel = filtered by the choice made in the previous panel but still with the possibility to choose a key (of course different from the previous one) - let's say "genre"

third panel = exactly like the second but filtered by the choice made in the previous (second) panel

fourth... fifth.... nth

last panel = let's call it "database view" or "tracks view" or "details view" or whatever else - shows the tracks that match the current selected key:

if I click on the year "1965" in the first panel, the "tracks view" (TW) will show all the tracks with "1965" in the year field

if I click on the genre "jazz" in the second panel, the TW will show all the tracks with "jazz" in the genre field among those which have "1965" in the year field

and so on for the other n panels.

(Should we be able to easily choose if the link between two panels is an "and" or an "or", the thing would automatically become a super smart & ready made "AutoDJ" or "Autoplaylist" too.)

The usual "send to playlist", "add to playlist" etc should work at every level, clicking in whichever panel and getting the consequent selection to the playlist treatment.

I think this is what we could call a media library, and a smart one.

Of course, a playlist window should always be visible to see the progress of one's selections.

Last, the panels should all be resizable, dockable/undockable and visible at the same time leaving the user the choice of how many of them he likes to use.

As an add on, it would be useful having the different keys listed in the panel as you first open (create) it: Artist, Album, Genre etc. In this way, you can just use the left click (once or double) to choose your keys and then values to filter with.

Not being a programmer (at least not in this field) I wonder about a multitude of "Album List Panels" linked together by some database filtering key.

Let me say a word about Winamp ML - I've being toying with it for a couple of months and I extensively used it as my collection reaches 10000 about tracks, most classical.

I think WA ML is quite close but not so flexible as it may (should) be as it has this fixed keys: Artist in the first pane and Album in the second. The alternative is to have just the tracks view.

So, Mr Album List Panel developer please see what you can do with it, as a smart ML would be "a small step for a programmer but a huge leap for (Foobar) mankind".

Sorry for being a bit wordy.

So in otherwords you want the treeview widget replaced with a bunch of cascaded listboxes or whatever they're called in Win32?

The problem with that is that you loose some scaleablility. With the treeview you can just keep spawning child nodes almost forever, so you can make a filter thats, say, 30 levels deep, and it doesn't take all that much of a formatting string to do. That'd be hard to do with a bunch of list boxes unless you're going to have that many panels floating around, and a hell of a lot of formatting strings for them.

One possible solution would be to do something like the treeview in macos where each node is another panel thats added to the right of the current one, and the view is then scrolled. However I don't know if that can be done in Win32. At least I can't think of a very easy way to do it in .net. You might have to write code that drew and collected views and then scrolled as people clicked around.

No, I didn't mean cascading panels.

You must know that I'm quite a newbie with FB as I started using it (and enjoing it) just a week ago, so, please forgive me if I ask for something that it's just covered by some unknown, by me) plugin.

In fact, after I posted, I discovered in the gallery that I can have more that one panel of Album list at once and each with its different view.

Now, what I thought was something like a stack of a few Album list panels in the sidebar where you can see at a glance you collection under different views.

One step ahead would be the ability to select one value in a panel and, maybe holding the ctrl key down selecting a value in another panel and have them work woth chosen boolean relations. You can then automatically generate your complex playlist in the Database view or, as a choice in a New playlist view.

As you can see, this would work just as a Playlist generator without having to type the name of the fields and the values they have to contain or miss. And, as for the boolean operators, it would be nice and easier having a drop down list where to choose them. We might also consider to choose if we want the content of the panels # 2, 3 etc being a filter result of the choice made in the above one or if we want to have them not linked working just as lists of the values in the different fields.

If you don't like the idea of having many panels always opened, you can think to have all that described above only when you start the playlist generator.

As told, I'm not a programmer so I don't have a clue about how hard or possible would be to implement such features but, as a plain user, i feel that multiple Album list occurrence could be a starting point. Sorry if I'm wrong.

(About selecting multiple values, I wonder if exists the way to make the Ctrl+ or Shift+ work at least in a single Album list panel)

Thanks.