This year's AES 115th had an interesting paper presented, which describes a new MPEG-4 working draft currently under development by ISO/MPEG, which will allow MP3 to be fully integrated into MPEG-4 audio-visual systems:
http://www.aes.org/events/115/papers/SessionC.cfm

Is this good or bad?
Really, I don't know what this could mean for the future of MP3 (and LAME?)

The section of the article covering MP3 is pretty limited, but it looks like they're considering a proprietary implementation of the MP3 format, low-bitrate, multi-channel (>2ch) in conjunction with other types of media. Is this the case?

And if it's not intended to be a "proprietary release", then how would backward compatibility work? Would today's MP3 players be able to handle MP3 files encoded with more than 2 channels, for instance?

Just because mp3 is already multichannel in the specs...

No - it is not "proprietary" - it is a proposal for the next extension of MPEG-4 file format specification, which is all but proprietary.



For stereo, yes - for multichannel, I am not sure as I didn't read the proposal (working draft) completely because of lack of time. Anyway, if I remember correctly - the place where the stream would be extended is MP4 file format header information, not the MP3 bitstream, so no problems with MP3.

The idea is to get MP3 into MPEG-4 standard file format, allowing it to be mixed with MPEG-4 Video (including new H.264), scene description, other MPEG-4 objects, etc..

If it gets approved (and most likely, it will) - only thing that LAME developers would need to do is to include MPEG-4 file format I/O in order to generate valid MP4 files with LAME MP3 inside.

This will probably be done automatically by Bill May & Co in MPEG4IP as well

I'm not sure if I understand the exact meaning of this correctly, but how does this make sense considering the fact that AAC is a much superior audio codec which is already integrated with the MPEG-4 framework? What exactly is this supposed to achieve?

Perhaps to be able to put existing MP3 tracks into MP4 containers (alongside other media streams) without the need to transcode the audio track lossy->lossy or to have to go and find the original uncompressed source to re-encode to AAC.

Just speculation, but that would seem to make sense.

Are MP4 containers suited to add DRM info? If that's the case DRM could be a major driver also.

My Guess -> To allow easy and non-destructive transforming from divx/mp3 in avi to compliant mp4.

MPEG-4 file format allows DRM solution (in MPEG-4 it is called IPMP - Intellectual Property Management and Protection), it even allows any third-party DRM solution to be integrated through so-called "IPMP hooks" (like: http://openipmp.com/ )

Putting MP3 inside would make it also "DRM friendly" - but I don't think that is the reason for this initiative, I believe that following reasons are relevant:

- Problem with MP3+MPEG-4 video muxing in non-standard containers like .AVI

- Increased editability of MP3 streams (seeking, etc..)

- Easier multichannel support

- Removing a need for transcoding from MP3->AAC which results in quality loss, if no original material is available.

isnt mp3 in mp4 already possible in the current standard?

Maybe also easier broadcasting (radio)?

Yes, it is. But only by muxing the full mp3 frames into the mp4 file (wasting a lot of bandwidth). This is probably some extension that removes that need (simple, as it is also done with AAC). Plus it apparantly adds some multichannel capability.

I think the lossless codec for MP4 is a lot more interesting (same page where JohnV linked to).

Menno

BTW: mp4creator can mux mp3 files into mp4. Dunno who/what can play those though.

Especially the fact that the paper (C-5) is written by the author of LPAC.

-Eugene

AFAIK mpeg4ip can

Yeah, I was aware of the lossless codec for MPEG4 in that page, but it's kinda old news and there are dozens of other lossless codecs already.

Heh, but MP3 inside MP4 is even older

Menno

But the news is not about muxing MP3 to .MP4 container. The news is that MP3 will most probably become part of the MPEG-4 standard. And that is not old news..

Forgive my blind ignorance (see signature), but would tagging be somewhat different then? I mean, could the mp3's be tagged the same as an mp4?

If there's an MP4 container to tag, it should be possible to create a meta atom in it, and tag it

Very interesting news. so will it allow to put existing mp3 files in an easy way to mp4 container without any need to transcode with a second bandwith lost?
though i have reorganized my huge hq mp3 collection (mostly lame hq) by ripping once againg to aac (psytel 2.15 codec in archive or ultra) or mpc (insane or braindead) by friends, i have over 150 mp3 albums of ultrarare stuff that is very very hard to find.

so pleaze experts can you tell me if there is or soon will be a solution on the market to do mp3 -> mp4 in an easy way without transcodin. and will all the tags i've done still existin?

thanx in advance

the things johnv posted are only drafts not final standards, etc..
so i am sure this will take a while

btw. you are already able to store mp3 in mp4, but menno already wrote about the drawbacks in this thread...
of course simple mp3->mp4/aac reencoding doesnt make any sense in 99% of the cases