I'm getting an hp2215 iPAQ PDA in the next few days. I'm not new to audio compression in general, but I'm looking for a way to get the solution in the topic: the best audio quality while having the smallest (or small) files.

Is anyone able to tell me if Ogg might be the solution? I haven't actually done any comparisons just yet (I'll be doing some rips tonight from CD to encode) and I'm just curious.

As far as a space to quality consideration is concerned, dealing with the limited amounts of SD/CF memory I'll be using (most likely 256MB cards) I'd like to be able to carry a good selection of songs with me. Changing them out and swapping the songs out every time I put the PDA into it's base isn't really an issue due to it's very nature (portable and interchangeable).

Just looking for suggestions. This PDA supports MP3/WMA natively and supports Ogg Vorbis using a specific application for PocketPC powered PDAs called PocketMusic.

Thanks for anyone's time,
br0adband

Wow... 36 views and no replies...

Geez, I take it Ogg isn't on anyones priority list as a "must have" thing.

br0adband

It is on mine!...and yes, it's a damned good solution.

It's been commented on a billion times, though. Hit the Search in the upper right corner (Portal - Forums - ... - Search - ...), put in a good search string and you'll get more info than you can handle.

xenno

Here is my opinion on this, (based on past readings of the forum).

mp3 is really only worth using when using LAME and one of the alt-preset parameters. For portable player use --alt-preset standard -Y would be good. The bitrates will be high though, probably too much to fit a lot of songs on a 256MB card. --alt-preset 128 doesn't sound as good as Vorbis.

WMA is good for the low bitrates <128 compared to mp3 and as good as Vorbis at 128kbps. On the ff123.net website @ 64kbps WMA 8 didn't do as good as Vorbis. I haven't kept up with WMA 9 though. You should research that and see if your player supports it (AFAIK it's backward compatible so it should perform at least as good). WMA 9 Pro is slightly better than Vorbis @ 128kbps (according to rjamorim listening test).

Vorbis is better than WMA 8 (and probably 9) at low bitrates and as good at low-medium bitrates of 128kbps compared to WMA 9 Pro. -q3 or -q4 sound better than mp3 at 128kbps. You also have more control of Vorbis than WMA. Things like tagging and gain control.

So for your limited 256 MB card, I think Vorbis would be a good choice.

how small is the smallest?
64 kbps?
32 kbps?


if its 128 kbps I think OGG ~= WMA, QT AAC is better!

anything lower than 128, both WMA pro and OGG is OK
but if its WMA8 avoid it!, use OGG

HE AAC won the 64k test if you have a player that supports it.

Since your PDA only supports WMA, MP3, and Ogg Vorbis, then I'd suggest using Vorbis. At 64 kbps, try listening to an mp3 compared to a Vorbis file and you can easily make your decision.

As for WMA, an informal listening test between Vorbis and WMA would be helpful. If Vorbis sounds decent to you, then by all means, go for it.

I suggest you to go for Vorbis 32 kHz / 64 kBps: excellent sound and small space.

Actually, in Roberto's 128kbps Listening Test (Extension), QT-AAC, MPC, Vorbis and WMA-Pro all tied for first place considering the error margin overlaps. Meaning these formats would give very close or identical performance for most people with the tested music types.

So, considering that WMA-Standard is, from what I understand, generally not as good as WMA-Pro in terms of sound quality in this bitrate range, I'm not so sure WMA-Standard would be a fair equivalent to Vorbis.

If this is the case, and considering that MP3 was a step down in sound quality at 128kbps (a common bitrate for portable use), I'd recommend Vorbis out of the formats that are supported.

I have a pocketpc powered IPAQ 3630 and sometimes use it to play mp4 files. I find mp4 files to be the best for portable use. However, the player is not very good

[edit - sorry, forgot to mension the player "platform4", and it is rubbish for audio playback, but is good for video playback!]

You'll help yourself a lot if you let the answers filter in over a period of 24 hours, not 60 minutes, and bump the thread only after that.

It's a learning process, ya know.

Thanks for the great information. I'll be doing some testing tonight and I'll let everyone know what I decide on.

Have a Happy Halloween folks...

br0adband

Ok.... I'll bite....

Listening to my iPAQ 2215 right now, OGG encoded to 96Kbps, all songs on SD card.

First off, take a peek at Pocket Player from Conduits (disclaimer: I do not work for them) Best player around for palmtops. WMA, WAV, MP3, OGG.... No AAC (but they're really responsive with new features), and you can actually use the damned thing (default skins anyway) without having to pull out the stylus to get to the small controls.

I have a couple of 512Mb SD cards that I keep music on (I tend to rotate music between my desktop and the cards as the mood strikes), and I average between 12 and 13 full CD's worth of songs on a card @96KBPS.

I'm actually trying to decide what bitrate I should be using..... 96Kbps sounds good.... but can I still go lower and get good enough quality??? I tend to listen to the same files on both my Desktop and my Palmtop, so I'd like a good bitrate suggestion for size/quality...... but I'll search the boards for that.

Cheers.

Cool, a fellow hp2215 owner. Excellent information there, thanks.

I've been scouring around for media playing software for this iPAQ and PocketPlayer keeps getting recommended above all others.

I just completed several hours of my own ripping and testing and I'm choosing Ogg q0 to do my encoding from now on (for music to be played on the iPAQ). There seems to be a noticeable difference between Ogg with a q0 quality setting and just making it 64Kbps CBR. I read some reviews and testing at that bitrate here at:

Results of 64 kbit/s listening test

and based on those results as well as my own that's what I will use. Ogg with a quality setting of q0. I'd never touch mp3Pro so that's an easy one.



Sounds fine to me, it's not CD quality of course but for portable applications I don't think I'm going to have any problems at all.

Thanks for the advice people,
br0adband

Well, if U still like to make any hearing tests, ;=)
try once this 'strange' settings below:

oggenc.exe -q 1 --resample 35280


It will make OGGs around 75kbps. With only '-q 0' or -q 1'
without any down-resampling i often have had the impression,
that there would be simply to less space to write all the data
of sound-rich tracks.

Maybe it helps...
384kbps


N.B: Please make sure that your portable player supports
alternative sampling frequencies.

I'm almost always very satisfied with the quality of Ogg Vorbis at -q 0. Is it good enough to satisfy some of the demanding audiophiles that frequent these forums? Not always. Will it allow you to cram a whole bunch of pretty-good-sounding music into a small space? Yep. I hope and think you'll be pleased with your choice.

I too have a PDA with pocketpc to play music on. I like Vorbis -q0 much better than wma (yes, you have to use wma std for portable playback). Only drawback is that my oggs still feel very bright. Wasn't that bug supposed to be fixed now?

Still, I would like to use aacplus or mp3pro as they were my favourite in the 65 kbit listening test. Has anyone succeded to compile faad2 for pocketpc?