There are other dedicated forums out there for video, just as this one was dedicated for audio. I don't like the idea of video posts polluting the recent topics list.

Hydrogen Audio should really remain solely about audio. As it's name implies. I prefered it that way.

Well, it's not an idea anymore. We can't do anything at doom9, I want forums which can be modified according to our ideas, and possibly in the same time get more people familiar with video coding, which in order brings more people to doom9 also.

If you don't want to read HA video sections and only read doom9, that's ok. Nobody is forcing anybody. Infact I'm encouraging people to get information from various sources as much as possible. Doom9 is excellent source of information, but imo there's no reason why we should restrict ourselves totally because of it.

Anyway, there's no point complaining about this, since the decicion has been made. If you don't like it, you don't have to access the video section. It's that simple. And video topics are not polluting recent topic lists. Audio and Video topics are separated from each others.

I've only read a couple of posts, but I agree with the idea of subdomains being your friend. If all the forums are kept under one roof, it would be nice to have two completely separate entry points, audio.ha.org & video.ha.org - each with it's respective portal. That way there is no contamination so to speak.

Vee vill crush doom9! HydrogenAudio über alles!

Seriously though, I'm a fan of the change. Just because you can't do an ABX test on video doesn't mean you can't try to bring the scientific, objective HA flava to the topic of video.

I still think somebody ought to register hydrogenvideo.org.

Heh, I realize this was a joke, but I still want to say this: on the contrary I wish that we can help and complete each others on this field.

Ahahah

I don't know why it's so hard to believe. Doom9 has tons of guides and years of message archives. Even the idea of trying to directly compete with that is totally unrealistic, given that the HA's video section has been up about 24 hours. Thus, the idea is to try to add something of our own, spread information (which often links to doom9), and to have another place to discuss things and maybe get somewhat different perspective due to the fact that the audience is probably more audio oriented.

Ok, I'll confess that I'm in the camp that sees adding video to HA as diluting its value. But JohnV, I really have no problem with you doing whatever floats your boat.

That said, if you're in an explanatory mood, I was really hoping you might elaborate on some of the specifics of what you would like to see accomplished with HA video forums that cannot be done at D9. Is it that you don't know but want to play around with it? Or are the specific things that have nagged at you and you can't find a remedy for on D9?

Answer if you like. Tell me to pound sand if you like. Both are your prerogative.

Cheers,
TB

Well, there are many reasons, but one is this:

I've practically administrated HA sometime now by myself, because Dibrom simply doesn't have time anymore. During the offline period Dibrom and I agreed that after going online I'm "calling the shots" mostly, because he doesn't have time for HA. I need something to keep my motivation up, so that HA doesn't start to float without leadership, and stall. Now, I'm increasingly interested in video. Of course I'm still very much interested in audio also, but to continue administrating audio only forum does not keep my motivation up anymore. So, in order to guarantee my personal motivation to continue as HA admin, this is something which is needed.
Is this good enough reason for you, I don't know. I know some people strongly disagree and think that the video section is a big mistake by me. But I see it as a guarantee of the continuation of HA audio discussion as well. The other option is that I quit, but since it's uncertain what will happen to HA in that case, imo that's not so good option.

Bah, heads up JohnV.
I'm sure it will be a good section of HA.

The questions and the material will surely be limited, atleast for starters, and those who seek more could always goto d9 in case they need to. Why a video section would work on HA?; most certainly the nature of discussions will turn out differently here that on d9, naturally so rather.

Leave it arest, it's here - instead try to make the best out of it and we'll see where we end up in a few months.

cheers:

Thanks for the support MTRH (and others who have been supportive), I appreciate it.

I support the effort too. I like how much work's been done on the forums as of late. I've really noticed it.

It won't dilute the essence of HA; JohnV's worked it out so that dilution will be the last thing that happens. Audio and video are rather linked. For an elaboration, check out all the video posts that happened before there was a video section. Sure, the focus was still audio, but there's plenty of audio that's required to make a good a/v stream. By broadening the focus, we can attract even more people that are interested in audio, as well as providing another forum for technical discussion of video.

Some people claim that we're going to "compete" with Doom9. I'd tend to disagree. From what I've heard (and I don't have much experience here, so I could be extremely off-base), Doom9 is very newbie intolerant. HA is somewhat more so, assuming they're asking cogently.

Same topic, different perspective. There is a lot of theoretical overlap between the areas of audio and video, especially mathematically.

Trust that the admins are watching the site closely. If the video section makes things go downhill, they can be trusted to notice and do something about it. Relax. It's gonna be cool.

JohnV,

I wasn't kidding. Telling me to pound sand would have been good enough for me. I was really just curious. So, thank you!

Regards,
TB

Doom9 is not that bad..
There are a couple of subforums which are very advanced by nature, and you will find yourself getting flamed if you post newbie stuff there.
Not different from the reaction you might raise here, posting newbie questions on the Scientific Forum, for example.

They just want you to do your homework before posting, like here.

I am a newbie as far as video is concerned and I have asked some basic stuff over there, but always trying to be polite and always after failing to figure out the solution to my question by reading the related topics, and nobody has ever gone hard on me.

So I think what it gets down --as always-- is in the way you ask things.



Good start on the video forum so far, good discussion.
I now thing it will actually work.
Good for JohnV and the HA staff.

Now, how about that cooking forum?

Since JohnV is really needed around here in order for HA to be up and running, I wouldn't mind even if he decided to create a "pizza" forum, cause that would interest him at the time.

You are doing a great job guys...keep it up. I'm sure that the video section will add even more vital information and will spice up the whole interest.

I agree completely. But, it seems it is already done...

Can't wait for the posts about ripping 200 DVD's and what format they should choose.

And how will you decide if claims are justified, or not?
I prefer --r3mix over --preset standard: sound. I could hear this.
I prefer CBR over VBR: VBR is destroying the sound. I can hear it. ABX? Why, if I can hear it
I prefer WMA8 over lame --preset VBR: much better.
etc...


Will similar claims be allowed on HA? Would you forbid some audio claims, and allow video claims - arbitrary?

Sorry, I don't like this.

What is this example supposed to show exactly? We have no problems on audio side.
If there's a problem on video side, we have to have a creative discussion how to solve these issues the best way possible.

Guys, why cant you see the video section here as what it actually is :

An extention to the excellent HA.org services. There are presumeably at least 100 video related boards in the internet ( i can list at least 40 and i dont know all for sure ), and none of them can be confronted with the argument '... we have Doom9, so why does your board exist at all ? ...' , this would be unfair.

Doom9 is a great place for video related stuff, there can be no doubt about that. Doom9 himself always made clear that he wnats to maintain a very high skill level for his board, so HA.org can do an excellent job in giving information to people like JohnV himself, i.e. audio compression fans who for the first time get more and more in touch with video and have a lot of questions about that .... not the typical Newbies, but people who know about compression already, and now want to extend their horizon.

Just my 2 cents ....

I'm just afraid the the video sections is going to drown the audio section.
but only time will tell.
But if audio sections stall/drowns i know that a lot of users will abandon the board.
and they got nowhere to get the same objective good info.

HA has done the most incredible job in the Audio Cummunity. i Wouldn't have it to get lost for others...

There's no problem, because HA was found on a rational basis. Proofs may be requested (and it's always the case when people made one of the claims I gave for exemple in my previous post) if needed.

Now, I'm interested about video, but:
- not sure that HA is the good place
- not sure that it will be helpful, if people made unfounded or badly founded claims about their favorites encoders (placebo effect is a reality, in video too).

I'm not 100% sure either how we should deal with video quality discussion's inevitable claims, but critisizing and complaining before it has even properly started is easy. Trying to find a solution and have constructive discussion, that's what is hard, and that's what I'd hope to see more.

I'm not criticizing. I'm worry.
When Dibrom found HA with a complete, coherent & strict TOS, in order to avoid some of the r3mix issues, was it "easy"? No, it was prevention.

Now, if you want a solution, just change TOS for the video section. And allow some things still and fortunately forbid in audio section.

I know, I was writing that ToS too, and it wasn't ready from the beginning of HA, like you claim. HA was not found on ready made ToS text, only some concepts and principles were in our heads. HA wasn't born because of r3mix forum's lack of ABX. People were doing blind testing at that time as well.

Anyway, now, we need to figure out some standard handling with video. Since there are no ABX tools for video yet, it's gonna take some time to figure out what are the best procedures, since this hasn't been thought anywhere (even doom9) much yet.

Worrying/complaining/critisizing doesn't help here, thinking does. And if you have something constructive to say, please do, I'd be very happy. If not, don't bother posting. I'm busy enough anyway without wasting time for non-constructive messages.

everwicked has made a very nice, fully automatic video ABX tool. Ask him, he is hanging around in #foobar2000 all the time .....

Never said that TOS were there. At the beginning, there were less people on HA - and r3mix were still active, and was the reference for most people. Less people + other reputed board = less problems on HA (and no need for a complete and detailed expression of what Dibrom and you had in mind).

Feel free to not comment this post.
If you want a video section, just create one. You're the administrator.

hehehhehehheheheh, nicely done guruboolez. I'm next to you there. Hey if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem, i say. I also think it's bad to just be some stupid sheep, so I'll try n help out or goto HA video forums when I can. Cheers JohnV

Video Coverage is a good thing to add. If it adds value then people will use it and it will be great. If it doesn't then people won't use it and it will go away. Low downside risk and high upside potential - sounds like a reasonable thing to try.

Video usually has audio to go with it, so it is a little difficult to not cover to some degree. So if we want to cover video as a topic, let's try to do it right and have a go at it. With processing power and storage capacity / speed entering a sweet spot, video codecs are an increasingly important technology. Who knows what it will evolve to - years from now it could be Hydrogenvideo...

My $ 0.02, no change.

Personally, I welcome this addition. I like having one forum containing the discussion I'm interested in - and seperating audio and video is getting ever more difficult to seperate. MPEG-4, anyone?

I'd say that basing video discussion on fact is much easier than it is with an audio discussion. After all, you can take a snapshot of a video sequence and show it to other people and it will give a very good impression of the artifacts you're talking about.

The only thing I could ask for is a larger portal. It seems that too few of the recently posted threads are shown; especially given the new stuff

IMO, it would've been better to make some sort of agreement with Doom9 or similar, to not do the same job twice... I know Doom9 has accepted cross linking a long time ago, when I was on Flexion only, doubt he would neglected this one. As I doubt that anyone has asked him...

The same would count if Doom9 decides to make a broad audio section, HA is the leader with most of the relevant people on it...

As for HA being more newbie friendly as Doom9:

HA: "Where's your ABX proof?" "Read the forum rules!" BAAN! etc.
D9: "Make a search! This has been answered!" "Read the forum rules!" STRRIKE! etc.



IMO, both are very newbie friendly, but not "I want everything on a plate and I'm too lazy to give anything in return" friendly. It's much easier to be "newbie" friendly, liberal and not having rules if the forum consits of a few enthusiast with the same/similar goals. Add a few thousand P2P users etc...

I know I got nice replies to my dumb questions here, and no one ever flamed me.

But, since the decision has been made, I wish you luck and, more importantly, loads of fun. I now I had it when I was active...

Cheers,

Mijo.

This move is great!. I think Video section will attract more people.

I say, HA should have included a section on the new HDTV standard being implemented in the US.. In my opinion, this is going to be the NEXT BIG thing in the world of AV.