hello all,
i have 3 ques for garf, john33, quantum knot, tigre, and other big shots here:-
1. which codec do you use
2. what bitrate
3. which encoder
thanx

Ooops...ignore response.

Happy Holidays

I'm not sure if he consciously posted the thread in the Ogg Vorbis section, but i'll leave it here for the time being.

I seem to spend a lot more time coding than encoding!!

But:
1) GT3b1
2) 6
3) My new one - oggdropXPd v1.7.6S

1.) MPC 1.14
2.) --quality 6
3.) mppenc.exe

1. Ogg Vorbis GT3b1
2. q 5
3. oggenc (CDex with GT3b1 dlls for ripping)

1.) MPC v1.14
2.) --quality 5 --xlevel
3.) mppenc.exe w/ EAC

I am NOT a big shot around here, but since you are curious:

Ripper-EAC

encode rips with flac or monkeys audio lossless.

encode lossless stored files with Lame 3.90.3 and Foobar 2000 for portable,

using either --alt-preset standard or --alt-preset 140

thanx ya'll. feel free to indicate your preference. open to all
btw i use vorbis:- gt3b1 for q5-q6 and 1.0.1 for q2-q4 , encoder is oggdropXPd

how is "dbpoweramp audio cd input " for ripping cds. thats what i've been using. its pretty simple to use, but how does it compare in quality wih eac or nero for instance?

Rip with EAC (.WAV + .CUE)
mount with daemon-tools 3.43
rip/tag/etc with iTunes 4.2 / QuickTime 6.5 - AAC @ 192kbps

or

Rip/tag/etc with EAC w/NEncode and Nero AAC 2.6.0.6 @ VBR/Stereo - Transparent (and Extreme in some cases, depends on the music).

I'm mostly using the iTunes/QT AAC solution though, until the AAC listening test that's supposed to be conducted in February 2004 is done, and hopefully shows better results for Nero's AAC codec.

Always rip in secure mode, ofcourse

Dont use OGG Vorbis, so I cant comment on this one.
I prefer FLAC, with transcoding to MP3 for my iPod!

I'm waiting for WavPack 4.0 (hybrid)

1) gt3b1
2) q6
3) cdex 1.51 with dll's

gt3b1
q6
grip

I'm no big shot but....

LAME 3.90.3

--alt-preset standard

EAC (Secure mode)

Personnal Music Rip:
(EAC Secure, NO C2, Accurate Stream, Disable Cache)
Metal: Flac Q8 V1.1 (Splitted Files, No Cue Sheet)
Other Music: Ogg Vorbis V1.01 Q5 (160NKbps)

Downloaded Music Rip: (Not copyrighted indeed ...)
Any lossless (Flac/Ape Mainly) (Then transcoded to Flac Q8 or Ogg Q5) or
Any Ogg Vorbis V1.00 or V1.01 between Q4 to Q8 (128 to 256NKbps)
(Halved settings included)
(I don't use neither Garf tuned version nor previous than 1.00 versions)
The lowest the better (Q5 160NKbps favored)

Q4 (128NKbps) is my starting download bitrate as it is the point of "visual transparency" in cool audio edit's frequency loss analysis tool, but I favor Q5 (160NKbps) for my own rips as it is the point of "generally accepted audio transparency"
Q8 (256NKbps) is my max download bitrate as it is twice my minimum download bitrate & as it is the last Quality Setting that have a +16Kbps increase step, after Q8 it's absolute bitrate overkill IMHO

I may use some MP4 implentation in the future at the same bitrates I use Ogg Vorbis depending on how widely MP4 will spread ...
(actually MP4 is not spreaded at all compared to Ogg, so wait & see)

Personnal Movie Rip: (BeSweet Surround2)
(1CD) Ogg V1.01 Q1 (80NKbps)
or (2CD) AC3

Downloaded Movie Rip: (Not copyrighted indeed ...)
(1CD) Any Ogg Vorbis between Q0 to Q4 (64 to 128NKbps)
The lowest the better (Q1 80NKbps favored)
or (2CD) AC3
The bitrates I use for Movies are the bitrates I use for Music divided by 2.

Speech: (I don't use speech codec)
Speex (I may favor Ogg 40NKbps over Speex depending on future Ogg Versions)

I have no MP3/MPC at all on my HD thou I tested these codecs much ...

Depends on goal, state of CD.

Either lossless (APE), MPC 1.15r -insane or latest VBR Nero (HE)AAC.

I don't actually use Vorbis any more. (I have a lot of -q6 GT3b1 material though)

Coming from a Vorbis developer, that says volumes.

MPC 1.15r insane for usage in PC environment,
lame 3.90.3 aps for mp3 CD player in my car
Wavpack for archiving high resolution audio from DVDs
Ogg -q -1 for creating previews (whatever encoder latest fb2k foo_oggpreview.dll uses).

Other formats only for testing until I have a supporting hardware player.

1) GT3B1
2) Q6
3) CDex 1.51 with dll's

For archiving purposes (when I'm not owning the original CD):

mpc q9 (above braindead) - I don't hear any difference to lossless even with high end equipment!

For releasing:

ogg q 8,3 (encoder version oggenc 2.3)

Copies for my portables or car stereo

mp3 lame --alt-preset standard (lame 3.90.3)

but I want to switch to ogg because of the mp3 gap problem).

why is that? and do you think that HE-AAC is the future of lower bit rate?

if the developer of MPC used his tricks on vorbis, do you think it (vorbis) would be better?

not a big shot either...

Q1. MPC 1.15r
Q2. Q7 XLevel
Q3. EAC for ripping, UniversalFront for encoding

There's nothing 'tricky' about this, just a meticulously refined psychoacoustic model.



I use MPC 1.14, -standard -xlevel, EAC in secure mode, no C2 detection.

The "trick" is to convince the vorbis developers to incorporate the mpc psy model into vorbis II.

At the moment I am experimenting with a wide range of codecs:
EAC with MPC 1.15r q7
EAC with flac
EAC with oggenc Garf tuned q6
EAC with lame 390.3 alt preset fast standard

EAC/nencode, Foobar 2000, or db poweramp with nero AAC "transparent" preset

various ways of transcoding from flac to AAC or MP3

Obviously, I have not decided how I want to encode my present/future music collection. At the moment I feel AAC is the future as it is under relatively rapid development and has the momentum of the iPod to drive it.

if the whole reason that MPC does so well is just a great psymodel, the dev's of vorbis II really should incorporate it so that vorbis can gain the entire user base of MPC.

GT3b1
-q5
EAC w/ oggencd

I use EAC for all my ripping. Secure mode with C2 error detection.

I use FLAC quality 4 for archiving my CD's with the standard FLAC frontend. I rip to a single .wav with .cue and then compress the .wav to .flac.

For use on my PC I prefer Vorbis. If I were ripping new material now for PC use I would use Vorbis q0. I pretty much can't ABX anything (I can only ABX LAME at 96kbit and I can tell if older mp3 encoders are used, like blade).

Getting a new Power Book G4 soon so I may have to go back to --alt-preset standard because I really want to use iTunes for library management but don't quite trust iTunes secure ripping abilities and don't see any point in QT AAC until it's gapless. (hint, hint Apple)

So to answer in short;

1) GT3B1
2) q0
3) EAC ripping, oggdropXPd v1.7.6S for encoding

OMG, are you using Garf tuned version with -q 0?

My bad. No. I am using the standard encoder. I was tooling around with GT3B1 with q6 earlier. Again my bad.

Does it mean there will not exist GT3 Final?

EAC with Secure Mode and C2 error correction.
FLAC - quality 5
LAME -alt-preset standard
QT/AAC 160 depends on type. Sometimes 192

de Mon:
"visual transparency" first plz notice the " "

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim Vorbis to be transparent at Q4 at all, I just say that if you compare the frequency loss of the various codecs in cooledit, at 128Kbps & above vorbis (& aac) don't have the sudden frequency falldown of mp3 (& mpc) ... at 128 & above Vorbis (& aac) globally look like the original wav with some small distortion ... this is only an information among others, but this info combined with the fact that Q4 is the last +16Kbps step & first +32Kbps step is what made me choice Q4 as my minimum bitrate for my music use.

In fact I understand less & less why people are trying to find the "absolute perfect single bitrate", I prefer selecting range of bitrates for my different uses & these ranges are clearly:

128-->256Kbps Music Audio (The Full Range of Bitrates with a +32Kbps Increase Step) (with 160Kbps favored as 1: It's transparent for me, & it's stupid but it's a golden number: 8KbpsX20)
64 -->128Kbps Movie Audio (The Full Range of Bitrates with a +16Kbps Increase Step) (with 80Kbps favored as 1: It's 160Kbps divided by 2, & it's stupid but it's a golden number: 8KbpsX10)
(... so as you see my range for movie audio is also my range for music audio divided by 2)

I care less & less about my personnal preferences (40/80/160NKbps) as long as it's in the good range of bitrates for the use I make of it ... I'm quite happy with it ...

... but again for the weird expression "visual transparency" don't trust an image, trust your brain & hears ...

Edit: If it's still not clear: "visual transparency"="no visible frequency cut off" in cooledit ... this tells nothing about quality but can be usefull to guess if a bad vorbis rip is due to MP3toOGG transcoding ...

I'm very sure there won't be a GT3 final. Garf seems to be working on other projects now that make it impossible for him to work on Vorbis.

OggZealot what do you mean by 'visual transparency'. If I understand you right I advise you not to bother with images you get in CoolEdit. Trust only your own ears.

Edit:
P.S. Not only your own. Guruboolez ears are always welcome

For those still in doubt about the possibility of GT3 final: Check Garf's profile. (Seems to be no longer a secret)

Why did he lose his Super-Moderator status? He was a mod and a Vorbis Dev before, why is he only an Ahead! MP4 AAC dev now?

Now that you mention that, what happened to your own Rarewares/developer status?

Garf didn't lose his super-moderator status. He decided himself that it's better if he's not a super-mod.

Nice. Well, I want to thank Garf for his past contributions to Vorbis development and I wish him well as AAC developer.

Seconded.

EAC Secure + Mppenc 1.14 @ --quality 6 --xlevel


Got some albums encoded with OGG GT3b1 q6

To stay on topic...

1) Vorbis 1.01
2) -q 8
3) EAC R/E

To deviate...

Eagle > Coming from a Vorbis developer, that says volumes

It does?..not to me. His (Garf's) falling out with xiph/vorbis resulted from what he perceived as a slow development cycle from Xiph, not because of any "real" (read intractable) problems with the format...but don't let me put words in his mouth.

xen-uno

When I use Vorbis I encode with official 1.01 @ -q 5

mpc 1.15 --insane with EAC ripping.

I rip with EAC Secure Mode, Accurate Stream enabled, no C2 or cache.

I "Detect Gaps", make a cue sheet, and rip (using "Test & Copy Selected Tracks") to individual APE (High Compression) files. CRC should always match.

After I've ripped to APE, I transcode it to MPC using Foobar, using MPPENC 1.14 @ --extreme --xlevel, and put it in my MPC directory.

--

If Vorbis II will be using the Musepack psymodel, then I will probably become a Vorbis zealot too!

Rips with EAC
1. MPC 1.14
2. Encodes using Speek's frontend :
--quality 5 --xlevel --displayupdatetime 300 --stderr MPC_Log.log
3. Tagging APE v2 using Case's Tag.exe + Speek's frontend

I thought this was a question about OggVorbis encoders?????

Hehe - no.

But thanks anyway - I'll move to general forum