I have a software request, I would like a combined EAC & Plextools test & copy.
My idea is for someone to create a front end that would:
-Rip with EAC secure (NO C2)
-Rip with Plextools (C2)
-Execute a wav compare
Then create a detailed log with EAC track quality & track CRC's, Plextools number of error encountered & corrected (maybe try to create a formula similar to EAC's track quality for comparison) which could all be gathered from the Plextools error log & track CRC's.
This would mean we could have the security of EAC's well tested, highly accurate non C2 algorithms & Plextools modern highly accurate C2 algorithms.
This would also be interesting for evaluating EAC & Plextools error detection
Ideas:
-Restricted EAC/Plextools options could be inputted
-Could have an option check & submit to the Accurate rip database
-All artist/album info could be inputted via this program
-Compression & tagging
Full Version: Software Request - EAC+Plextools error detection
Can you explain to me why EAC and Plextools differ in their rips, given that the rips are perfect?
QUOTE(DrDoogie @ Dec 28 2003, 11:28 AM)
Can you explain to me why EAC and Plextools differ in their rips, given that the rips are perfect?
How can you be sure the rips are perfect? using 2 different error detection algorithms is safer.
Edit:
Which drive are you using in Plextools? (older drivers are inaccurate)
Which settings are you using in Plextools?
Are you using offset correction in EAC?
Are you using C2 in EAC?
What *I* want to see is for EAC to have new C2 error correction technology like Plextools 
Then I can just rip all my albums at burst speed and my tin ears won't tell the difference 
Then I can just rip all my albums at burst speed and my tin ears won't tell the difference
Actually I don't think that's quite right 
There's nothing any program can do to modify the resultant wave file when ripping in burst mode right?
Then I guess my request would be this:
When ripping in secure mode, have an option for EAC to do software interpolation instead of re-reading the disc whenever it encounters C2 errors. This would help with those drives with poor hardware error concealment, right?
There's nothing any program can do to modify the resultant wave file when ripping in burst mode right? Then I guess my request would be this:
When ripping in secure mode, have an option for EAC to do software interpolation instead of re-reading the disc whenever it encounters C2 errors. This would help with those drives with poor hardware error concealment, right?
QUOTE(Joe Bloggs @ Jan 1 2004, 05:08 PM)
What *I* want to see is for EAC to have new C2 error correction technology like Plextools Then I can just rip all my albums at burst speed and my tin ears won't tell the difference
Then I can just rip all my albums at burst speed and my tin ears won't tell the difference Plextools and EAC (secure with C2) actually work very similar ... in EAC terminology, C2 errors are CU errors (uncorrectable C2 - slight misunderstanding here)
What happens when Plextools and EAC (secure with C2) encounter CU errors ?
Both slow down and re-read (EAC does this 80 times whereas Plextools can be set to 99 retries)
What's the difference ?
EAC strictly re-reads whereas Plextools use their algorithms to evaluate the C2 error info - try to recover as many CU errors as possible.
EAC once had a similar option ... "use C2 info for error correction" which has been removed (actually, the code is still there) in the 0.95 pre-beta-versions due to Andre Wiethoff believing that this algorithm failed on many drives (ask PIO for reasons *g*). Personally, I still use EAC 0.9B4 so I can benefit from that option when "normal" secure mode leads to audible problems on read errors (whereas "Use C2" often is able to retrieve non-accurate but still good-sounding rips)
Oh, I thought that option is dependent on the CD-ROM drive's internal algorithm for results?
QUOTE(Joe Bloggs @ Jan 2 2004, 10:12 AM)
Oh, I thought that option is dependent on the CD-ROM drive's internal algorithm for results?
Nope, to do that you would have to put EAC in Burst Mode or Plextools in "Report Errors only", lower the read speed to the lowest and let the drive do the error corrections.
This way of work actually works better on the latest batch of Plextor drives then software error correction. Whereas EAC sometimes rips a scratched CD of mine with an audible glitch in it (in Secure Mode), the Plextor drive himselve corrects those errors flawlessly.
Here's a log of one of those CD's (a very old CD Single I recovered on a flea market) on which EAC choked to death and the Plextor ripped it without glitches when letting the drive perform its HW correction.
CODE
PlexTools Professional V2.09 Digital Audio Extraction
Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Plextor SA/NV
25 december 2003
---------------------------------------------------------------
Software information
--------------------
Windows XP V5.01.2600 Service Pack 1
ASPI Manager: n/a
Description : n/a
Source
------
ID:0 PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4824A V1.05 (#904602), Read Speed: 4X CLV
Disc Type : AudioCD , 1 sessions, 2 Tracks, 06:12.58
-
Digital Audio Extraction Error Information log
----------------------------------------------
Start of extraction
Extracting track 1 (01 - De Vedetten - Aan De Noordzeekusten!.ape - 03:20)
7 CU errors in sector 1076(LBA), 00:14.26(MSF), 00:13.68(MSF track)
... (EDIT: tons of errors here) ...
5 CU errors in sector 14023(LBA), 03:06.73(MSF), 03:06.40(MSF track)
10 CU errors in sector 14110(LBA), 03:08.10(MSF), 03:07.52(MSF track)
1999 errors
Elapsed time: 00:50
Extracting track 2 (02 - De Vedetten - Reisje Langs De Rijn.ape - 02:51)
5 CU errors in sector 21538(LBA), 04:47.13(MSF), 01:26.05(MSF track)
5 CU errors in sector 22553(LBA), 05:00.53(MSF), 01:39.45(MSF track)
12 CU errors in sector 22583(LBA), 05:01.08(MSF), 01:40.00(MSF track)
5 CU errors in sector 23765(LBA), 05:16.65(MSF), 01:55.57(MSF track)
4 CU errors in sector 24348(LBA), 05:24.48(MSF), 02:03.40(MSF track)
9 CU errors in sector 24388(LBA), 05:25.13(MSF), 02:04.05(MSF track)
3 CU errors in sector 24424(LBA), 05:25.49(MSF), 02:04.41(MSF track)
6 CU errors in sector 24464(LBA), 05:26.14(MSF), 02:05.06(MSF track)
49 errors
Elapsed time: 00:46
2 track(s) successfully extracted
Total Elapsed Time : 01:37
Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Plextor SA/NV
25 december 2003
---------------------------------------------------------------
Software information
--------------------
Windows XP V5.01.2600 Service Pack 1
ASPI Manager: n/a
Description : n/a
Source
------
ID:0 PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4824A V1.05 (#904602), Read Speed: 4X CLV
Disc Type : AudioCD , 1 sessions, 2 Tracks, 06:12.58
-
Digital Audio Extraction Error Information log
----------------------------------------------
Start of extraction
Extracting track 1 (01 - De Vedetten - Aan De Noordzeekusten!.ape - 03:20)
7 CU errors in sector 1076(LBA), 00:14.26(MSF), 00:13.68(MSF track)
... (EDIT: tons of errors here) ...
5 CU errors in sector 14023(LBA), 03:06.73(MSF), 03:06.40(MSF track)
10 CU errors in sector 14110(LBA), 03:08.10(MSF), 03:07.52(MSF track)
1999 errors
Elapsed time: 00:50
Extracting track 2 (02 - De Vedetten - Reisje Langs De Rijn.ape - 02:51)
5 CU errors in sector 21538(LBA), 04:47.13(MSF), 01:26.05(MSF track)
5 CU errors in sector 22553(LBA), 05:00.53(MSF), 01:39.45(MSF track)
12 CU errors in sector 22583(LBA), 05:01.08(MSF), 01:40.00(MSF track)
5 CU errors in sector 23765(LBA), 05:16.65(MSF), 01:55.57(MSF track)
4 CU errors in sector 24348(LBA), 05:24.48(MSF), 02:03.40(MSF track)
9 CU errors in sector 24388(LBA), 05:25.13(MSF), 02:04.05(MSF track)
3 CU errors in sector 24424(LBA), 05:25.49(MSF), 02:04.41(MSF track)
6 CU errors in sector 24464(LBA), 05:26.14(MSF), 02:05.06(MSF track)
49 errors
Elapsed time: 00:46
2 track(s) successfully extracted
Total Elapsed Time : 01:37
1999 errors but no glitches, pops, clicks or whatever
.I think you can test this difference yourself by tripping to rip a badly scratched cd in the different modes with EAC since Plextools really doesn't offer the same flexibility with other then Plextor drives. E.g. I also have a Lite-On 165HTD DVD-Rom which also rips the track perfectly with EAC in Burst when the speed is manually limited to 4x. Higher speeds introduce pops & cracks.
QUOTE(deej_1977 @ Jan 2 2004, 09:19 AM)
This way of work actually works better on the latest batch of Plextor drives. Whereas EAC sometimes rips a scratched CD of mine with an audible glitch in it (in Secure Mode), the Plextor drive himselve corrects those errors flawlessly.
No glitches, pops, clicks or whatever. So really I don't trust software error correction too much anymore
.
No glitches, pops, clicks or whatever. So really I don't trust software error correction too much anymore
. Same counts for the Plexwriter Premium ... in conjunction with Plextools Pro (Recovery Level 5, Unlimited Errors, 99 Retries) it is sometimes (not always) possible to obtain rips where no CU errors are present whereas EAC refuses to retrieve accurate results (sync errors and read errors are being reported - with audible flaws sometimes).
From the log you've posted I see that there are CU errors in the rip ... didn't you use plextool's error correction ? If not, EAC would have retrieved the same results in buffered burst mode @ 4x CLV
I was editing my post while you were replying. Answers are in there now .
Briefly: on such scratched CD's (and copy-protected CDs), I never use software error correction anymore. HW ECC has proven itself much better to me many times now. Plextools only reports the errors, the drive itself corrects them. I do verify such tracks by listening very concentrated to them and have never "heard" it fail once
.
I do still use EAC in secure mode when I have CD's that are in "good shape", just for the speed benefits (rips at 12x->20x with Lite-On).
.Briefly: on such scratched CD's (and copy-protected CDs), I never use software error correction anymore. HW ECC has proven itself much better to me many times now. Plextools only reports the errors, the drive itself corrects them. I do verify such tracks by listening very concentrated to them and have never "heard" it fail once
.I do still use EAC in secure mode when I have CD's that are in "good shape", just for the speed benefits (rips at 12x->20x with Lite-On).
Plextools tip: Ripping at lowest possible speed greatly improves performance.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
QUOTE(westgroveg @ Jan 2 2004, 11:53 AM)
Plextools tip: Ripping at lowest possible speed greatly improves performance.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
Oh ok, how do I do that? I don't have any webspace currently so I couldn't link to it.
EDIT: For the temp solution I just cut out a large chunk of lines now.
QUOTE(deej_1977 @ Jan 2 2004, 02:00 PM)
QUOTE(westgroveg @ Jan 2 2004, 11:53 AM)
Plextools tip: Ripping at lowest possible speed greatly improves performance.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
deej_1977: You could have supplied an attachment of your Plextools log.
Oh ok, how do I do that? I don't have any webspace currently so I couldn't link to it.
http://www.uploadit.org/
Thanks for the link Tigre!
Let's put it to the test immedeatily: I just ripped a track with 29000 CU errors flawlessly :woot:. EAC gave a read & sync error. You can see the log right here. Have a look at track 16!!!
Let's put it to the test immedeatily: I just ripped a track with 29000 CU errors flawlessly :woot:. EAC gave a read & sync error. You can see the log right here. Have a look at track 16!!!
QUOTE(deej_1977 @ Jan 2 2004, 01:04 PM)
Let's put it to the test immedeatily: I just ripped a track with 29000 CU errors flawlessly :woot:. EAC gave a read & sync error. You can see the log right here. Have a look at track 16!!!
Rip the same track with EAC in Burst Mode @ 4x ... you'd be surprised.
BTW: A rip with 24009 CU errors in one single track cannot be called flawless
Well no hearable pops & cracks anymore is called flawless in my book .
And yes with EAC in burst mode at 4x it would have worked also because - again - you're letting the drive do the EC and not the software. I was talking about EAC in Secure Mode which is software correction.
Again: I'm not questioning EAC or Plextools, I'm merely pointing out that there can be a huge difference between HW and SW error correction, usualy in favour of the first option.
.And yes with EAC in burst mode at 4x it would have worked also because - again - you're letting the drive do the EC and not the software. I was talking about EAC in Secure Mode which is software correction.
Again: I'm not questioning EAC or Plextools, I'm merely pointing out that there can be a huge difference between HW and SW error correction, usualy in favour of the first option.
QUOTE(JeanLuc @ Jan 2 2004, 01:46 AM)
(ask PIO for reasons *g*). Personally, I still use EAC 0.9B4 so I can benefit from that option when "normal" secure mode leads to audible problems on read errors (whereas "Use C2" often is able to retrieve non-accurate but still good-sounding rips)
Is this the last version of EAC that had this feature? Where can I find it? Not on the EAC website
And what program do you use to limit the speed of the CD drive?
QUOTE(Joe Bloggs @ Jan 2 2004, 01:57 PM)
QUOTE(JeanLuc @ Jan 2 2004, 01:46 AM)
(ask PIO for reasons *g*). Personally, I still use EAC 0.9B4 so I can benefit from that option when "normal" secure mode leads to audible problems on read errors (whereas "Use C2" often is able to retrieve non-accurate but still good-sounding rips)
Is this the last version of EAC that had this feature? Where can I find it? Not on the EAC website
And what program do you use to limit the speed of the CD drive? I don't use any program since EAC allows to set the drive's read speed ...if not, you can always try the german program "CDBremse" for that job.
As for EAC 0.9B4, PM me about your email ...
JeanLuc-
I looked at the site for CDBremse. THe three programs on the sight all look useful. Do you know if there are english versions available?
I looked at the site for CDBremse. THe three programs on the sight all look useful. Do you know if there are english versions available?
QUOTE(dreamliner77 @ Jan 2 2004, 03:44 PM)
JeanLuc-
I looked at the site for CDBremse. THe three programs on the sight all look useful. Do you know if there are english versions available?
I looked at the site for CDBremse. THe three programs on the sight all look useful. Do you know if there are english versions available?
AFAIK, there are german versions only ... but the program itself should be very easy to understand since there are no freaky options to set.
If you google for an english tutorial, you might be successful, though ...
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