I know the new RealPlayer announcement was posted a few days ago.. But here's a new story expunding on a previously unknown feature:

The new RealPlayer will PLAY Apple iTunes DRM Protected .M4P files via Quicktime.

The News.com story about this new RealPLayer and its extensive AAC support is at:
http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5136275.html?tag=nefd_top

Great News! Now maybe Apple, Nero, WinAmp and RealPlayer will all support standard .MP4 files

Now all we need is MusicMatch, Adobe Audition and a few others to natively support creating and playing MP4 audio files...

I think te affirmation that this will be an iTunes killer is over exaggerated.

People will still use iTunes to
- Buy tunes from the iTMS
- Move tunes to and from the iPod
- Rip CDs to AAC.


Blah. Somebody should change the thread title. Claiming such stuff is even irresponsible.

I meant to put a question marker after the thread title (?)

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes Killer?

MODS: Please add a question mark after the thread title...

At least RealNetworks thinks their new player will be competition for Apple iTunes. Otherwise why release their content in a competing Helix wrapper? But in an attempt to "wean" people off iTunes they are allowing people to play their already purchased M4P files via their RealPlayer software using Quicktime routines.

I personally think it will be a disaster (RealPlayer's Helix wrapped DRM files), but it is nice to see that Apple has gained so much momentum that competitiors have to support their format.

So to answer the question: No I don't believe it will be an iTunes killer, but that is why I posed it as a question so people can post their comments and opinions as to whether it will or will not be an iTunes killer app.

I can confirm: RealPlayer 10 does indeed play both my purchased .m4p iTunes files and my .m4a files encoded with foobar/Nero. Impressive...

But iTunes already does this nicely, so what is the point? As far as I know, the songs purchased from Real's new store will not be playable on my iPod, even though they are encoded with an AAC codec. Maybe it will turn out that the RealPlayer 10's iPod plug-in is smart enough to strip the DRM off and transfer a standard mp4 to the iPod... probably wishful thinking.

I did a quick test ripping "Diesel Power" by Prodigy:

Monkey's Audio (Normal): 32,771 KB
RealAudio 10 Lossless: 33,294 KB

Not too bad!

Probably.
For those who missed it in the article, Real is introducing their own DRM-protected AAC online music store, which could therefore more accurately justify the thread title (with the question mark)

Same price per song, same format with a different DRM scheme, only from the invasive masters of code at Real instead of Apple?
I'll take the Apple product any day of the week.

Ahh, I wasn't clear: I meant that I hoped that RealPlayer 10's iPod plug-in would strip the DRM off of Real's songs not Apple's. Real would be smart to make their songs playable on the world's most popular portable!

No I actually figured that part out
I just doubt Real will have the foresight to implement such a function, if their licensing deal with the media providers would even allow it

A new version of RealPlayer for PalmOS is also available, and it supports the AAC files as well!

As always...



If Uncle Sam ain't your uncle. they dont want to know.

For the rest of the world there are our good friends at allofmp3.com who do want our business.

CR

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68245

I wonder who wrote the HE AAC code that RealPlayer is using? Is it Nero Digital or Dolby code? Anyone know?

CodingTechnologies.

According to theinquirer (paraphrasing the Wall Street Journal), Real's AAC files are not capable of being played on an ipod.
This makes a certain amount of sense, since in order to transfer their protected AAC files to the ipod, Real would almost certainly have to strip the DRM protection off the file, meaning it could be transferred to another computer from the ipod with any copy protection completely removed.

As an iPod owner I have to wonder why Real bothered. Who would want to buy music if you can only listen to it on a computer?

I wonder if you can transfer the files to a Net MD with the Real minidisc plugin? I'd try it out, but Real doesn't want my Australian dollars

CR

Their hands were probably tied to some extent by the DRM that the media providers undoubtedly insisted they implement, especially since they're using 192kbps AAC instead of 128kbps.

Getting the record labels to agree to allow them to distribute even higher quality compressed files undoubtedly was part of the impetus for their "Helix" DRM system.

I can listen to the AAC files on my Palm Zire 71.

Can you listen to QuickTime or Nero AAC files with it?

i doubt that, cause why does realplayer than rip only into the .ra container even with aac?
they could have used .mp4, it would have been fully mpeg-4 compliant and it would work in already existing mp4/aac players without problems

note that i dont talk about drm here


best would be if someone could add a function to mpeg4ip that wraps the aac stream out of .ra and puts it into .mp4

Since I was talking only about DRM restrictions on copyrighted downloadable content Im unsure what your objection is.
Do you know anything about their "Helix" system that would lead you to believe it could be easily packaged in an .mp4 container yet still retain it's copy protection when transferred to an ipod and then to a third party computer, or do you believe it to be proprietary to the .ra container?

i answered to your answer to an ipod user asking why they didnt support the mp4 container (which is needed on ipod)
as you answered that the reason is drm i answered that this is not the reason cause they also rip non-drm files into .ra

i see the .ra container as an attempt to exclude other aac competitiors, but i guess this will hurt real more than the others


as i already stated in my previous post i didnt talk about reals drm and i dont know anything about it but i guess they could have placed their own, independant from apple, drm directly into mp4 from the beginning if there would have been to will to do so...

Understandable, I just dont know if you can say whether their DRM requires their own container in order to operate as intended.
Would an ipod be able to play the file even if it were in an MP4? Entirely Speculation

It's certainly possible that the container name itself is part of the "Helix" system. This is Real after all

no ipod will not play reals drm aac files (even if they were in mp4) until apple adds support for reals drm system

or the industry will be able to develop an own industry wide drm standard

I tried to transfer a .m4a file to my Zire 71, but it wouldn't do it. RP10 does not play Nero AAC files.

I am setting myself up as flamebait by at all commenting on this issue.. However, I just wanted to mention that we do know about the previously badly behaving RealPlayers, heck we've been using them ourselves. Naturally also from feedback from just about anyone having used them. Please see my "How to make RealPlayer 10 behave nicely thread" over on Doom9. As you can see, it has improved in the right direction, and it does not run +10 MB of always on background services. In any case, constructive feedback in the thread mentioned is welcome, and I will forward to the right people, or even file bug reports.

What I actually wanted to say is that even though we also use AAC in the RealNetworks Music Store, it is 192 kbps rather than 128 kbps, and even though I am more of a video than audio enthusiast, when I do buy a song, I would certainly prefer the highest possible quality.

well the bitrate alone tells us not everything about the quality

with the different quality levels different codecs can provide (wether its mp3 or aac) i can also imagine that a codec at 192kbps provides the same quality as a better codec at 128kbps on average

and apples aac codec was judged as the best in rjamorims listening tests

i guess the next aac listening test shouts for rjamorim

I'm not really eager to test the Real AAC codec.

First, because it seems to be just CodingTechnologies, which would make is somewhat similar to Winamp (I think).

Second, because it outputs broken streams (Real Container).

Third, because I'm admittedly a coward and have no courage to try to install ANY Real software on my PC. I'd better leave that task for a real hardcore guy that has no love for his computer.


(I'm sorry, Karl or any other RN guy reading this, but I have never had a painless experience with Real Player / One / Producer. My latest issue with your software is reported here).

That's true, but as Roberto says :

and with Apple == Dolby, Real's encoder, licensed from Coding Technologies, should be in pretty good company Also see my post in the "AAC test" thread about how these implementations are not entirely identical.

Apple is not really the same as Dolby. True, they started from the Dolby consumer sources, but did very heavy tuning inside Apple. The Apple's main AAC developer is actually a member of this board.

Anyway, I agree with Karl, unless Real is using reference sources (and they aren't), 192kbps ought to sound better than 128.

karl,
of course i didnt mean that reals aac codec sounds any worse than the one from apple

all i wanted to say is that the plain statement "192 is better than 128" doesnt have to be necessarily correct

Yes, agree. This will change for Gold. Most likely to ADTS .aac. I will find out why this is considered the current plan, and not MP4.


I have installed versions of RealPlayer and RealOne for many years, on 20+ computers at least, and have never had anything like that happen, ever, even with early pre-Alpha versions. For instance, you should not need to reboot. That's an indication something is not working right.


Your experience is most unfortunate, and I would like to make sure whatever the problem is, gets fixed. Did you try RealOne and RealPlayer 10, or did you just pre-determine RealPlaye 10 to be as bad?

Also, have you ever installed a Real "codec pack" on your system? Those will mess with the registry, and potentially confuse the installer. Still, the installer should still clearly work, and I would just like to know, so I can file a reproducible bug report. No matter, I will still file a bug report, because this needs to be investigated. Thanks for reporting this problem.

Sorry for the strong wording, but it was almost 5AM, I was tired of testing bitrates over and over again for my test and frustrated with restarting my computer time and time again.

I tried RealOne Enterprise Desktop, RealOne standard and Real Player 10 beta. In between each install I tried uninstalling the software. The uninstaller never worked (complained about missing files), so I deleted the folders and removed the RealNetworks registry keys from HKLM and HKCU.

Also, I installed them with the minimum amount of apps running in my system.

Installating went on peacefully and never output any error message.

In every case I installed, restarted and double-clicked the .exe. Nothing happened, and the program wasn't frozen because I checked the task manager and it wasn't there. It must have crashed for some reason. There were no error messages whatsoever.



Nope, I never installed.



I thank-you for your help

I appreciate your commentary very much karl, and I have seen the thread over at Doom9. Real's video compression in the last year or two has become extremely impressive relative to what I recall from some time ago, especially with animation.
However, "badly behaving" is probably the nicest thing I would have to say about Realplayer's installation and uninstall procedure over the years, and I shall leave it at that.



This is a good point, and I would agree if it were not for the total incompatibility of the Real Music Stores files with any extant AAC compatible portable. I realize that your companies hands are almost certainly tied on this issue by the content providers themselves, but without the ability to transfer and play my downloaded music files on a portable or another computer, the additional bits do nothing for me, even more so when I must use Real's own player to play the content on the computer I downloaded it to.

I would like to try Real Player 10, but both RP One and 10 crash before they allow me into the program. No error messages, no crash log, they just dont open . Both would show me the little flash screen, then they just died....oh well, back to Real Player Alternative .

That is exactly what is happening here. Same versions, same symptoms. Only I don't even get to see the flash screen.

BTW: My system is Win2000 Pro SP4 ptbr, Athlon XP 1500+, 384Mb RAM

Yes, that's perfectly understandable. All music stores encrypt their content, thus restricting it from being freely playable on all computers. With the Real Music Store you can designate 3 computers to play your downloaded songs. You can switch this around too, just delete one computer from your list, then add another. Store bought content can already be played on some Palm devices and Creative Jukeboxes, full support for others on the way.

We have a lot in common: Windows 2000 SP4, AMD XP2400, 512mb ram, Shuttle AK31 v3.1 MB - System is 100% stable too, and i'm completely sure of it

Looking into this problem myself.. since bug reports need to be reproducible to be easier to fix.

1. Un-installed RealOne V2 from my secondary computer.
2. Set System Restore point
3. Installed RealAlternative 1.04
4. Ran installer for RealPlayer 10 Beta. No errors, no need to re-boot
5. Try to start RP10. Flash screen. then nothing!
6. Restored system to earlier restore point.

So, in your case, ViPER1313, I am pretty sure the codec pack is to blame. I will add this to the bug report, so we can make our installer work even in the face of this. It should. rjamorim, who never installed a codec pack, must have a different problem.
In either case, I will test the un-installer/cleaner that comes with R1P, r1pclean.exe, but it may not work on the codec pack.

This post attempts to answer the original posters question 'New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes Killer?'.

Having used release 10 for about a week now, for my purposes the answer is a conditional no. I use iTunes to manage the music files on my iPod and obviously RealPlayer won't do that.

I have been using release 10 to manage the music files on my minidiscs and much to my surprise I've discovered that RealPlayer 10 is a really nice piece of software and a big improvement on previous versions.

RealPlayer 10 hasn't tried to take over my computer, it installed gracefully and it was easy enough to de-select installation options that I didn't want -- no hidden options or sneaky marketing tricks.

The interface has been subtilely improved and seems to be very robust. RealPlayer imported my 20GB of mp3's quickly and efficiently. It hasn't edited or moved my files and the autoplaylists and library hierarchy are logical and simple to use.

I've never liked previous releases of RealPlayer, and in particular I didn't like the intrusive nature of Real's marketing built into the software. However with this release Real seem to have reached a nice compromise between marketing necessity and user friendliness

I am extremely grateful that Real has given me a much nicer and less intrusive option to Sony's terrible SonicStage application for moving files onto my minidiscs.

Sadly I won't be able to buy music from Real's new music store when it's available outside of the USA because I won't be able to play those files on my iPod. So for me RealPlayer is not a competitor to iTunes, but while I still use minidiscs or listen to streaming audio from the BBC or ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) RealPlayer is a very welcome and useful addition on my PC and is highly recommended if you have a Net-MD minidisc player.

CR

@CarbonRods:

Considering past realplayers, what we hear every day about these, and my own experiences, I am very glad to hear this.

Karl wrote:
So even though r1pclean reports 'Cannot load setu3260.dll' it does appear to clean out the registry enough so that now RealPlayer 10 Beta runs fine, after installing it.

I will post this also in Doom9, where I am sure there are many RealAlternative users as well.

Which currently availible Creative jukeboxes support the .ra AAC files?

Yeah, RP Alternative was the problem. I went out on a limb and uninstalled it, installed RP 10 beta, and it started up first try w/ no reboots. Seems to be a pretty nice player, although a little to big and bloated for my tastes. It would be great if you could make Real One / RP 10 work with RP Alternative installed though. Thanks for all your help.

You don't need Real Alternative if you have RealPlayer installed. Every program, which work using Real Alternative, should work if you have the plain Real Player installed.