Hi!

We need quality feedback for the compaact! 1.2 beta.
There were many changes in the VBR Modi and there is a complete new PNS module. Both could be tweaked a little more, and I would appreciate your feedback (problem samples etc.). There are also still some issues we are working on, like too high VBR bitrates for problem samples.


The changelog looks like this:

• new PNS
• new VBR modi (roughly: new quality qx equals old quality
  q(x+1) bitratewise, i.e. q5 should give now something around 130kbps)
• minor preset file format update (backward compatible)
• new feature "Two-click encoding": encoding in the explorer
  via right mouse click (optional)
• improved startup speed for command line/shell encodings
• MP4 file extension selectable between .mp4 and .m4a

I am mainly interested in quality feedback, especially what you think
compared to compaact! 1.1. Please post your impressions either here, or -prefered- via email to support [at] compaact.com. I would also appreciate if you could make preset files available, since I plan to include some presets with version 1.2.

The beta is available here:
beta4

Please understand that I did not remove the trial restrictions for this public beta.

Looking forward to your feedback,
Alexander

Edit: updated link to beta2
Edit2: updated link to beta3, several fixes, only minor quality changes
Edit3: and the next beta...

Thanks for this Alexander. Will download it and give it a whirl! I appreciate the use selectable .m4a option by the way

Alexander,

There is one initial problem I found so far:

The files Compaact now creates (tried several different 44.1kHz WAVS both mono and stereo) are all causing a program fault when trying to play back in WinAmp 5.02. Files created in Compaact 1.1.1 did NOT cause any faults or problems for playback in WinAmp 5.02. No extra WinAmp plugins installed, factory default in_mp4.dll (not Menno's). Tried with various bitrates and in both VBR and CBR encoding.

Error generated by WinAmp:

Miscrosoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
Run Time Error! Program: C:\Program Files\Winamp\winamp.exe
abnormal program termination

Hope this helps track down the problem. Will continue testing. Sorry my E-mail provider is down currently or I would have sent this via E-mail.

Adam

Are you encoding in Main?

I got this error trying to feed MP4s in Main profile to Winamp. It only supports LC.

No I am using Compaact default showing under "Expert Settings" as "AAC PROFILE LC" and not Main. Encodes are taking an awfully long time though (almost a minute on a 7 minute song). Much longer than with Compaact 1.1.1.

Perhaps it is doing Main encoding by mistake and not honoring my "LC" check box. Any clues Alexander? Reproduceable by anyone else?

In fact, it seems to be the PNS. If you deselect PNS in encoding, the file decodes. Hm. I tried PNS with faad, faad2, quicktime, philips, and our decoder. No problem so far.
Where can I found more information about winamp's decoder? The crash would be understandable if it would be only an MPEG-2 decoder capable of parsing the mp4-container, but of course it can be also a bug in compaact!. I will see if I can make a few more tests and get some information about this winamp decoder.

Alexander

At Dolby, probably. And maybe inside Nullsoft as well.

Nope, it shouldn't be understandable if PNS signalling is implemented correctly in encoder - PNS is signalled as PNS_HCB and it should be ignored by the AAC decoder if the decoder is not capable of decoding it.

PNS scalefactors are coded with huffman codebook for normal scale factors, so decoder could parse codewords without problems.

Could someone try Winamp with Nero AAC files with PNS enabled? If it also crashes - it is a buggy decoder.

Yes, removing the PNS option fixed this and now it plays fine in WinAmp 5.02. I also just checked and Nero does not allow the PNS option in CBR encoding mode for anything above 96kbps (i.e. 128k CBR does nto allow PNS). Wonder why?

I just tried encoding the same track via the Adobe Audition plug-in using Nero 6 and I get the same error when trying to play the file back in WinAmp 5.02. So WinAmp does not like PNS at all it would seem. Maybe you should not have PNS enabled by default in Compaact! (no other encoders I know of have this option turned on by default). What is PNS anyway?

Does anyone know how to get this fixed by WinAmp developers?

It's 100% sure a MPEG-2 AAC only decoder. Still no need for it to crash of course.

Menno

PNS is a parametric tool - i.e. used to artificially generate some part of the spectrum - In my opinion, this kind of tool is not needed at 128 kb/s where LC AAC is already capable of encoding spectrum properly.

Of course, that's only my opinion - other implementations could have different approaches.



I can't help them because I haven't seen the code Anyway it is a decoder licensed from Dolby Labs, and Dolby staff should fix that somehow

Well, if it's an MPEG-2 LC, than Winamp won't be able to decode it. Are they planning to add PNS decoding then?
I was perhaps a bit unclear: I don't expect a decoder to crash if something comes that it does not understand, but it's somehow understandable. But I also prefer non-crashing programs.

Alexander

Nullsoft only has a MPEG-2 AAC license, whether they will change to a MPEG-4 AAC license, I don't know. I already discussed this with them before, but it was completely out of their hands (and in AOL's hands) IIRC.

Menno

I just tried Dolby's command line AAC decoder (MPEG-2 version)

It reports "Invalid Huffman Codebook" when PNS is used.

So the problem in Winamp probably lies in the decoder - but it shouldn't >crash< - it should report this kind of message.

I just tested it with AAC ADTS files generated by Imagine Technology's Adobe Audition plug-in and Compaact! 1.20 beta and neither would play back in WinAmp 5.02 (with or without PNS selected). But at least the PNS AAC ADTS files didn't crash WinAmp, they just refused to play.

This is a sad state indeed... With all the people out there (average users) using WinAmp I can see this as a potential tech support nightmare with the encoders being blamed (my file wouldn't play right in WinAmp, etc.)

Maybe the users will have some clue and conclude Winamp might also be to blame.

I think you are giving the users too much credit rjamorim. After doing years of phone tech support for an ISP, I can tell you that you have to plan for the lowest common denominator when dealing with user's knowledge...

They usually are uninformed about technical matters or else blame the file or program that gave them the file they are trying to play from my experience. Regardless, this crashing during playback of PNS files is a very bad bug IMO.

The more I learn about WinAmp's decoder they less pleased I am getting with it...

I will probably disable PNS in compaact! 1.2 by default, but not for the beta, since this is one of the topics why I made the beta available.

Is winamp not capable of ADTS parsing or is this again a probable bug in compaact!?

Alexander

P.S.: The amount of PNS of course scales with the bitrate. But it might be right that it's a bit too much by default, hence my poll for feedback.

Edit: reformulation

Sounds like a good workaround Alexander (to have it off by default in the release version). Maybe a note in the Compaact! program help/documentation would be nice to warn people about potential crashes when using the PNS option for files to be played back in Winamp 5.02.

I am not sure why WinAmp is having problems playback back ADTS AAC files generated by Compaact! unless it is happening to other encoders besides its own built in Dolby encoder. Has anyone found any other encoders that generate AAC ADTS files that WinAmp refuses to play back?

Winamp only reads ADTS files when they have their ID set to MPEG-2.

Menno

I see, thanks for clarification. After a bit thinking on my side, this sounds quite logical, since they have an MPEG-2 decoder.

Alexander

Alexander,

Perhaps you might want to have a checkbox for users to make the encoding output "Winamp compatible" (i.e. that will set MPEG 2 output without PNS)? Do you think that is a good idea or not?

Well, I think compaact! has already quite a few checkboxes, perhaps already too many. If you select MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-4, PNS will deactivated automatically. However, I can add a note to the manual.

Alexander

Sounds good, I just sent you an E-mail with my preset suggestions you asked for also.

Any chance of seeing this for OS X?

Well, yeah, basically. In the beginning we planned to release the port for OSX in the first quarter of the year, but then decided to invest our time in the PC version more. So we have no timeline for the OSX-Version, although it should not be so much work, since all components are known to work on OSX (Codec, Audio-Engine, GUI, etc.).

Sorry for that somewhat fuzzy answer.

Alexander

Hehe... I come home from work and find this... downloading now to test. BTW 1.1.1 and 1.2 and co-exist on the same system right?

Regards

AgentMil

Yes, but the start menu links will be updated during the install of a new version. Otherwise, the .exe in the compaact-directory is not registry dependent in any way (and would run also without installer).

Alexander

Hi all,

unfortunately there had to be several bugfixes for the first
beta. Please find the new version beta2 under:
http://www.compaact.com/Downloads/setupcom...publicbeta2.exe
The first beta will be deleted.

The changelog:

• fixed major bug when loading CBR presets
• fixed bug for multichannel encoding of different files with
  different lengths (here I am not completely sure though)
• fixed registry entry for "Two-Click Encoding"-Feature in the
  case that other applications have messed around in the registry
• fixed minor file extension issues
• very subtle changes in the VBR-Modi

Thank you for your input. Still can't wait for your quality feedback.

Cheers,
Alexander

Thanks for the updated beta. Fixes the problems I was having with CBR presets.

Oopsie! Nein.

VU meters are OK now, but encoding still hangs at 19%.

Hmm, cannot confirm this here with your files, could you post me your settings (perhaps as preset file)?

Alexander

Weird, it works now.

Well, dunno. Thank-you for the fast bug fix

Hi,

a new beta is available at:

http://www.compaact.com/Downloads/setupcom...publicbeta4.exe

This is not a quality upgrade, but a functionality upgrade.
The main addition is that compaact! now comes with an
additional batch-processing GUI, because of the many requests
for it.

The beta can be found here:
http://www.compaact.com/Downloads/setupcom...publicbeta4.exe

The changelog is:

• added batch processing application
• added preset directory with some default presets
• added support for wildcard '*' in the command line for input
  file (e.g. compaact -i *.wav)
• several intern code clean-ups

I look forward to your feedback.

Cheers,
Alexander