Thanks so far in helping me understand more about soundcheck and replaygain. Here's a follow-up question:

If I add replaygain information to my .mp3 files in fb2k, and don't have soundcheck scanning activated in iTunes, that (rg) information should remain untouched, and still play properly on my iPod (when soundcheck is "on"), correct? Does adding additional information via iTunes, like playcount or rating info change this?

Nope. iTunes will overwrite the soundcheck field in the iTunesDB when it creates the file. If it doesn't have volume information from scanning the file, it writes zeros. iTunes doesn't actually change a pre-existing file, it simply rewrites the entire iTunesDB file the way it thinks it should be.

In manual mode, iTunes will only modify the information for files that you manually mess with. However in manual mode, playcount and last played and so forth don't get updated.

Basically stick to one or the other. Soundcheck is almost as good as ReplayGain is, really. In terms of how it sounds on the iPod, the two are usually indistinguishable, in most all cases. The normal difference is minimal. Out of 6000 songs, I've only had to manually adjust 3 or 4 with SoundCheck.

First off, I must say that I love this plugin. If iPods were more widely distributed, I would reccomend this plugin come with Foobar in the Special edition pack.

Second off, I was wondering if you have managed to (even notice) fix the "Various Artists" problem when you have a "various=1" tag added. One fix for this may be having foo_pod autocreate a playlist for these albums. (not going to explain interface problems, I'm sure you can find those out for your self.)

Thanks!

The last I heard, there were more than 10 million iPod sold. I'm willing to bet that number is at least 1000 times the number of Foobar2000 users...


I'm not quite sure what you are asking here or what the "problem" is. ..

foo_pod doesn't do anything with a "various" tag (that sounds very non-standard to me - correct me if I'm wrong). What foo_pod does do is if the artist is "Various Artists" or there is a COMPILATION metadata tag (also non-standard...), it sets the compilation flag in the database. This allows you to create smart playlists rules that use this information. Maybe that is what you are looking for - if not, please reply with more details on what you want to happen.

well, here's the gist of the "various artists" thing from the Foobar2000 formatting: Readme so it's a fairly common tag, should I change the tag to get it to work properly?

edit: the ipod thing was less of an ipod thing, and more of a "foobar + ipod" thing

edit2: I got it, but there's still a bunch of extra steps involved.

1) Components -> Foo_Pod -> Playlist editor
2) Create new smart playlist
3) Album - Is - (Name)

but can I force the ipod to ignore those songs when browsing through the artist directory?

FYI, with a fresh install of foobar and foo_pod 0.9.8 this issue went away for me.

Thanks!

No, but you could force the songs to have a different "artist" on the iPod or what have you. In the foo_pod options, change the Alternate Metadata prefix to "POD_". Then add metadata to your various artists songs of "POD_ARTIST = Various" or something like that. You can use the Masstagger to do this more easily.

Anyway, foo_pod will use the POD_ARTIST if it's there or the normal ARTIST if it's not. That's what the alternate metadata prefix is for, to provide different metadata to be used on the iPod on a per song basis. Just add "POD_", or whatever you put in the config screen, to the front of the metadata field you want to override.

edit: hi

I'm trying to catch on to the full functionality of foo_pod, but 48 pages is a lot to scan through, so I'll just present my problem outright.

I would love to be able to have synchronous playcounts, ratings, and playdates, but I'm not sure how to do that. I think it has something to do with syncing the iPod, but I don't know what that entails. I thought syncing meant that the libraries are also synchronized, and I don't want that. I don't want any file transfers to take place unless I copy files manually, but I would like a quick way for playcounts, ratings and playdates to be uploaded from my iPod to my foobar lib.

So first of all, is this possible? How do I do it? How does it work? How does it recognize songs in my foobar lib for a match? If I've moved some files on my HD since putting them on my iPod, will it be able to find them to update the playcount, etc. data?

Thanks.

I liked the one where you offered to have my children better. Good thing Google never forgets!

This was recently discussed (check the on the previous page).


Many people have expressed a desire to have the playcount & ratings synchronized between Foobar and the iPod. Currently, I have no idea how to make this work, as there really isn't a good way to associate a file on your computer (which may or may not be currently in a playlist, thus unknown to foo_pod) with a file on the iPod. I do have a way to match up files in a playlist with files on the iPod, but the problem is that components that set the rating, played date, or play count modify the original file by adding/updating metadata. This completely breaks the file matching algorithm, so it turns out that this is a terribly complex problem to solve.

Foobar does have a database feature, which (I'm told) can be configured to save metadata without modifying the file. So it is theoretically possible that this can be made to work, but I have much higher priority tasks on my plate, such as iPod Shuffle support (almost ready, just adding the "Otto"Fill feature).

oh snap, google got me busted. and yes, if you could make a txt file that lists
a) features
b) a how-to for morons
I would be eternally grateful.

the how-to is for my sister who got all frustrated when she couldn't send files fast enough.

edit: I've got a friend with foobar ratings, not sure how he gets it done but I might be able to help you figure out how to sync the two if he can figure out how the ratings he uses works. because it does rating and play count, not sure if it edits metadata or holds it's own database though.

Hi, when I send files to the iPod and the foo_pod playlist does an automatic update, the files in the playlist are displayed partially out of order. Is there something I'm doing wrong? There doesn't seem to be any problems on the iPod itself, but it would be much easier to tell what I've put on the iPod if the playlist appeared in order on foobar. Thanks!

When you use the "Load iPod Songs To Foobar2000 Playlist" feature, foo_pod automatically (and unalterably) sorts the songs by artist/album/tracknumber/title. If you use the "Load iPod Playlists As Tabs" feature, foo_pod will show the default hidden playlist, which contains all of the files on the iPod. This is more or less in the order you added them, although if you delete songs, foo_pod will reuse their positions.

If you want a true chronologic order of songs added to your iPod, I suggest creating a Smart Playlist like this: create a new smart playlist, don't change the artist/contains defaults, but check the Limit To checkbox, set the limit count to 9999 songs, then Selected By Least Recently Added(*). Then you can open the smart playlists as tabs, and you will see all of your songs, in the order they were added. This is also nice to have on the iPod, since you can see all of your songs in one list, and remember the latest songs you have added.


(*) Most Recently Added will also work, except it will sort from newest to oldest songs. This is actually more useful on the iPod, so you could either use this, or create 2 smart playlists.

Gidday Aero.

Just wondering how foo_pod support for the shuffle is going?

iPod Shuffle Update

I picked up an iPod Shuffle today (and I didn't even ask for any donations... ). I have been working with Otto, along with the author of GNUPod and others to reverse engineer the new database formats, and I already had the code in place to create the necessary database file. So the development version of foo_pod was able to load songs onto the Shuffle right out of the box, on the first try.

Edit: Fixed awkwordly worded sentence to make it clear that Otto is not only Perl illiterate, but also not the author of GNUPod.

There are still a few unknowns, but more than basic support is already in place. I am hoping to get the "Otto"Fill feature implemented soon, but I might release foo_pod 0.9.9 before it is complete.


Some notes on the Shuffle:

* It does not appear to play any non-iTunes encoded AAC files. Both FAAC 1.24 and Nero's AAC encoder (as of Nero 6.3) create files that play fine in iTunes and other iPods, but don't play at all on the Shuffle. I haven't really investigated this yet, but it is somewhat discouraging since I often transcode to .m4b format, since that is the only format which uses bookmarking.
Edit: This may be, in part, due to the way Foobar tags M4A files. I had a working iTunes encoded file which I then applied the ReplayGain in Foobar, and from then on, it wouldn't play on the Shuffle. However, a plain FAAC encoded M4A file didn't work either...


* iTunes doesn't seem to play well at all with other applications and the Shuffle. I have been unable to get it configured so that it doesn't wipe out the non-iTunes uploaded content every time iTunes is started. Again, I have only used it for a few hours so there might be a solution, but it isn't as easy as with normal iPods.

* File transfers to the Shuffle are much slower than with regular iPods. Using USB 2.0 High Speed, with a regular iPod I typically see transfer rates around 10MB/s. But with the Shuffle, typical transfer speeds are more like 1.5MB/s. If you go into the Windows Device Manager and set the "Optimize for performance" write caching policy, transfer rates go up to around 3.5MB/s. But this might require one to use "Safely Remove Hardware" to avoid corrupting the disk. Also, on one computer, the Shuffle didn't show up at all on the front panel USB ports, but worked fine on a hub attached to the rear ports.

* Overall, it seems like a nice little player, at least for the types of situations that you would want to use it. Audio quality is very good - it sounds similar to a regular iPod with the Latin EQ setting enabled (i.e. a little extra bass and treble). The controls are dirt simple, and I actually like have a real on-off switch, which hopefully will prevent the Shuffle from drawing down its battery when off (unlike regular iPods). And no, I don't miss having a screen at all... If you accept that this is player that you turn on and forget about while you workout or whatever, the lack of the screen isn't a big deal. A lot of otherwise smart people seem to completely miss this point.


So now the big question in my mind is how extendable the Shuffle will be. One interesting thing is that it uses/requires the same iTunesDB file as regular iPods, along with a bare bones iTunesSD file. I'm not sure why Apple designed it that way - it seems like they could/should have stuck everything necessary into the simple iTunesSD format... One thing that I have already extended is adding ReplayGain/SoundCheck support for the Shuffle. It doesn't appear that iTunes does anything with SoundCheck and the Shuffle, but foo_pod sets it just like regular iPods, which is really nice for a player that one would want to turn on and forget - and not mess around with the volume on every song.


As for the next foo_pod release, I'll post 0.9.9 either tomorrow without the OttoFill feature, or sometime this week. There are a few bug fixes for everyone, a new dialog that lets you easily choose between multiple iPods, and a repair feature that fixes skipped songs on iPod Photo players due to long filenames.

Just to clarify for everybody else, the author of GNUPod is the very talented Adrian Ulrich, not me. Didn't want anybody to get that confused and think that I actually know Perl or anything.

Just wondering if this has been resolved yet... I'm getting the same issue, but with a majority of my music (filename is normally "artist - album - # - trackname"). Strange thing is, it's mostly just track 2 that's been dissappearing.

If not, is there a place I can download the previous version without the photo ipod change?

This will be fixed in the next version (which I'll probably post later tonight).

Thanks, that helped quite a bit! I actually didn't have 'recently added' in mind, I just wanted songs in the same album to be grouped together. Using "Load iPod Songs To Foobar2000 Playlist" created a bit of a jumbled mess in the playlist. Didn't know about "Load iPod Playlists As Tabs" until you mentioned it, but that seems to keep them all together properly. However, now that you've brought the "Least Recently Added" capability to my attention, I've set up the Smart Playlist with your instructions. The only tiny quirk is that some tracks within the album are appearing out of order in the smart playlist.

Can this component support iPod Shuffle ?

Look up..

Version 0.9.9RC is now available.

This is the first foo_pod version that supports the iPod Shuffle, including some extras like ReplayGain/SoundCheck support (AFAIK, not directly supported by iTunes) and writing a track and shuffle text file to the Shuffle's root directory, to help compensate for the lack of a screen.

There are also a number of other features and bug fixes that apply to all iPods. There is an iPod Chooser dialog, which makes it easy to select between 2 or more iPods.

The one bug that I wasn't able to fix (yet) is the one described by Nexus6 (long filenames causing problems). The fix I had developed causes a huge performance decrease, so I need to find a better way of fixing this problem. One workaround for now is that if you know are you going to sending files with very long, nearly identical filenames, send them one at a time rather than all at once. This should avoid the problem until I get the problem fixed for the full 0.9.9 version.


From the Readme:

I keep getting an error:

Error: Unable to find iPod

But i see the iPod Shuffle in the Windows Explorer and its properly installed.

Do i need to do something else ?

I installed this component, then i go to the music i want to upload and select SEND FILE TO iPOD...then the error appears....

Damn, i hate iTunes.

PS
I have lots of services disabled, do i need some special service in order to make it work ?

Try selecting the iPod first (normally you shouldn't have to, but maybe it is a bug). Go to the Components menu in Foobar, then to foo_pod, and select "Select iPod To Use". Then select the drive letter of your Shuffle and click OK. See if that helps.


Me too!
Edit: Actually, it isn't that bad. Other than the ultra-cheesy brushed metal look, the GUI is rather nice. If it could be just a front-end to foo_pod + Foobar2000, that would be the ultimate!


No, foo_pod doesn't require any external libraries or services, other than Foobar2000.

AWESOME !!!
Thx for this GREAT component, that has free me from the sh!t iTunes.
And thx for your fast replies.

Version 0.9.9a is now available.

The major fix compared to 0.9.9RC is that I was able fix Nexus6's problem with long filenames. And in the process of fixing it, I spend up the "Preparing Database" portion of sending files to the iPod.

I also fixed a problem where if you cancelled during "Preparing Database", it wouldn't copy files, but it would create the database entries, leading to skipped songs on the iPod. Also, I added additional information in "Delete All Songs and Playlists" to help prevent you from wiping the wrong iPod.

0.9.9a Update: After playing around with transcoding and my iPod Shuffle tonight, I noticed that transcoding was horribly slow. It turns out that the encoder (LAME in this case) was writing out the output file in lots of little chunks, and that it is much faster (5x or more) to write the transcoded file to the local hard drive, then move it in one transfer to the Shuffle. It is also faster for regular iPods, although the improvement is more like 10%. Also, I wasn't very happy with the default LAME "Good" setting, so I did some experimenting and found a set of command line arguments that result in ~128kbps, but still sound really good.


From the Readme:

So I just installed foo_pod and I'm absolutely delighted to be able to use fb2k instead of iTunes with my iPod. I've hit a snag though. After installing foo_pod I used the "Load iPod Songs To Foobar2000 Playlist" command but when playing songs in the list, the tags disappear. Foobar cleans them out. If I just right-click on them without playing I can view the tags through Properties, but if I double-click to play them, the tags get wiped. Works fine if I press Play button. Have I done something wrong here?

Hi Aero, thank you for the new release

I have a feature request. I have far more mp3's on my pc than there can fit on my ipod, so i came up with a nifty tag-system. I have all my mp3's tagged with an IPOD tag. In there i write whether i want the files on my iPod.. YES or NO. I made a column string for it to show up in my playlist like this:



I now make a new playlist ONLY containing files that have the tag IPOD=YES and then sync my iPod with that playlist, but it would be so much nicer if this step would not have to be neccecary and foo_pod could just pick out all the files with the tag IPOD=YES out of my main playlist containing ALL my musicfiles with either the tag IPOD=YES or IPOD=NO when syncing with (or sending to) my iPod.

I really hope you will implement this!

Oh dear lord thank you! iTunes is now uninstalled. Keep up the great work!

That is annoying, but not really a foo_pod bug. The disappearing metadata is caused by Foobar reading in the real metadata from the file, rather than the metadata that foo_pod provides from the database on the iPod.

You can see this by selecting Properties on a song in the iPod playlist, then clicking the "Reload info from file". Sometimes you'll just see the metadata get rearranged, but if there is additional metadata in the iPod database that isn't in the file, it the foo_pod generated data will disappear.

I don't know of any workaround for this problem, unfortunately.

Yeah, I can add this feature. I guess the only question I have is if "IPOD" is the best name for the flag. I was thinking something generic, along the lines of "SEND_TO_PORTABLE_PLAYER", but much more concisely worded.

ON_PORTABLE=1/0

Great!!! I think Lyx has a good call

Version 0.9.9b is now available.

Another quick release, but I found a bug introduced in 0.9.9a that could cause files that fail during transcoding to still be written to the database.

Also, I added .zolder's suggestion to check for either the "IPOD" or "COPY_TO_PORTABLE" metadata items, and if they are set to "FALSE", "NO", or "0" (zero), do not send or sync the file to the iPod.

I saw Lyx's suggestion for ON_PORTABLE, but that indicates (to me, at least) more of a state situation than a directive not to send the file to the iPod. ON_PORTABLE could be interpreted to mean that a file is already on the iPod. So I setted on COPY_TO_PORTABLE, although if that is too wordy, you can simply use IPOD.


From the Readme:

That's great...the use of this tag can also serve the purpose of displaying a track's iPod status in the trackinfo panel. Thanks Aero.

Wow that's fast! Thank you so much! I'm gonna play with it and consider myself to be the happiest man alive for a while

Thanks alot. But could you please change the "standard" to only check for "0" (zero)?

Checking 12 conditions with TAGZ in formatting-strings is messy.

Also, please consider that enforcing a clear standard like COPY_TO_PORTABLE may offer a higher benefit than the disadvantage of having to retag one's files one single time with the masstagger (which is just a matter of a few seconds).

- Lyx

I would assume that the IPOD/COPY_TO_PORTABLE metadata would be created solely for the use of each individual user, so you can decide and enforce whichever standard you wish. foo_pod is simply able to handle several different variations.

*sigh* not another "play_date"-desaster...

- Lyx

Um...whatever.

This is essentially a boolean value, unlike something that is widely open to interpretation like a timestame. Having foo_pod able to accept "FALSE", "NO", or "0" does not impose any sort of standard on anyone, nor do I think foo_pod should since foo_pod is on the receiving side of the metadata.

If you choose to use Masstagger and set your COPY_TO_PORTABLE to "0", then that is your standard. If someone writes foo_copy_to_portable_setter.dll and it uses "NO", then you either switch your metadata and TAGZ strings to use "NO" or you don't use that component. Either way, foo_pod is able to handle the variation.

If it really bugs you that much, get a binary editor, open up foo_pod.dll, search for "COPY_TO_PORTABLE", and set "NO\0" to "0\0\0" and "FALSE\0" to "0\0\0\0\0\0"...



"In general, an implementation must be conservative in its sending behavior, and liberal in its receiving behavior." - Jon Postel

Well, i'm sure you're aware that not every fb2k-user is skilled in the magicks of writing formatting-strings with TAGZ, right? But thats no problem because there are people like me who take out hundreds of hours out of their free time to write formatting-strings not just for personal use, but to make fb2k more usable for everyone.

However, the goodwill and flexibility of those people is limited - especially in cases like play_date where the only way to write a public formatting-style usable for everyone and doing advanced stuff with play_date is only possible by writing a truckload of code to GUESS what date-format the user may have set - just because the author of that plugin was ignorant to not just not use a standardized ISO-date and instead make it configurable - he even made the default the european-dateformat, just to make absolutely sure that the majority of users WILL change it to something unknown to the formatting-string author. And so he has to drop support for that plugin, because the author was too short-sighted and egocentric to get the big-picture.

For the same reasons, it's not viable to waste 2 IFs, 2 ORs, 12 STRCMPs and 12 tag-lookups, just to plain simply check if an integer is set.

But okay, its your plugin and your decision.

*removes half-implemented foo_pod support from his to-be-released Navigator FCS*

- Lyx

I can understand where you are coming from, but having foo_pod able accept multiple formats is not a problem. There was no standard before I added this feature; there still is no standard. If you distribute your TAGZ strings or whatever, maybe you can create a groundswell of support and you will own the COPY_TO_PORTABLE metadata standard. Either way, foo_pod is ready.


Heh!

Based on your "take my toys and go home" attitude over this extremely minor issue, I'm overjoyed that foo_pod won't be associated with "Navigator FCS"...

Gotta agree with Aero on this one. If you're making a program that is accepting unknown data that you know is a boolean, then you had best check for everything you know about. T/F, TRUE/FALSE, Y/N, YES/NO, 1/0, E/D, ENABLED/DISABLE(D), etc.

Frankly, checking for multiple items isn't all that damned difficult. Yes, it might be a PITA using "tagz", but if that's the case then why not extend tagz by creating a function called "check_bool()" or something that will convert all of the above to a simple 1/0, and thus allow everybody to simply use that? This sort of thing is why man invented subroutines.

And if it's a sheer matter of processing time, then perhaps your time would be better spent in improving the speed of the scripting language itself. This sort of input data processing is built into a lot of scripting languages, so extending the language in obvious directions would be a good thing, I'd think.

Would "etc." include translations of these words into several dozen non-english languages and abbreviations thereof? For programming languages, offering several ways to do the same thing is often considered an undesirable feature. Not only are you suggesting to allow a plethora of keywords, but checking multiple tags includes the possibility that these contain incompatible values. Btw. it takes longer for a human to recognize the meaning of a single-letter abbreviation than that of a whole word.

It seems like you are trying to apply some general principle (good) without reflecting upon the situation at hand (bad). foobar2000's titleformatting language is limited which makes the test at hand cumbersome to implement in it. Sure, it can be changed, but: you can't do it, Lyx can't do it, and Peter won't do it unless asked to. If he agreed to add that, I doubt he would roll out 0.8.4 just for that, so users would have to wait several month until 0.9 is released.
Now perhaps you or Areo have already inquired Peter about that, I don't know. All I've seen is that Aero laughed at Lyx's frustration. I would like to believe it was a friendly "relax, man" kind of laughter, but the next sentence suggests otherwise.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the titleformat interpreter is implemented in the core, and the core is closed source. Suggesting Lyx that he should improve this interpreter is a bit odd.

What would in your opinion be wrong about simply checking for the existence of a tag called COPY_TO_PORTABLE or DONT_COPY_TO_PORTABLE (depending upon which you decide to be the default)? It would be easy to check manually and programmatically (even in tagz), and would be easy to change by the user as well.

I know absolutely zero about how foobar works. I've looked at the code in the SDK, but couldn't make heads or tails of it (admittedly I did not try very hard). I was basically just expounding on general principles.

To be honest, I have no idea WTF "tagz" is. I do not use foobar nor foo_pod, as neither one is capable enough to fit my day to day needs at this point. I like the concept and the idea, and so I'd like to see it improved to where it's useful enough for me to use it. That's why I contributed code in the hope that somebody would create an iPod plugin in the first place. In other words, I try to offer help when and where I can, sort of thing, in the hope that foobar will eventually progress to where I can use it for the sort of things I do. At the moment I'm forced to use iTunes, and I'm not happy about that either. But it's the only program capable of playing my songs in the way I like them to be played, and keeping the metadata in the way that I like it to be kept. Too bad it's a resource hog with a crappy interface.

Yes.

I agree that ignoring the tag value may seem like wasting the capabilites of the tagging system, but I'm wondering if using the mere presence of the tag isn't enough here. People have already used a VA tag as a flag on various artists albums, so it is not an entirely uncommon solution.

An unneeded option is a bad one. Not only does it take up space in the preferences and adds to the confusion of new users, if you change it, you have to change it in every place it is used. This is something I had to learn myself: to keep the amount of options to a minimum, and to resist the temptation to abuse titleformat scripts in options. In the end, this has made my components easier to use for myself (hopefully for others as well), though that process is not yet finished.

I saw that you edited your post while I was replying, but I felt the need to clear up those points.

Using the logic in your first quote, we would have to localize the tag names as well...


Actually, it was more of a "we were having a civilized, technical discussion (even if you were being unnecessarily dramatic), then you threw in that last little bit and completely destroyed your credibility" kind of laughter. Take it however you wish...

Anyway, this matter is closed for now. foo_pod implements the "IPOD"/"COPY_TO_PORTABLE" metadata as described in the Readme file. If there is ever a good reason to consider revising the support in the future, I will update foo_pod accordingly.

My logic? I did not suggest to allow translated tag values, I even gave a reason why i would consider it undesirable in the next sentence (which you did not quote). Another good reason against localizing tag names is that neither APEv2 nor Vorbis Comments allow non-ASCII characters in tag names.

Users will always be the ones who have to pay for ambigious and unclear standards, no matter in which topic. You call it userfriendly, but it's the opposite in the long run because it results in incompatibility.