Hi I've got a 3g 40gb iPod and i've uploaded a bunch of albums to my iPod using foo_pod. I've uploaded 1 folder containing 30 albums, no problems. Then i uploaded another folder containing somewhat like 100 albums. Those albums now take up space, but the iPod doesnt seem to know that the files are there. They're not written in the DB file properly i suppose...
Is anyone familiar with this, and maybe got an idea on how this can be fixed, or is it a bug?

Thanx in advance

This may or may not be the thread to ask this, is anyone working on support Apples Lossless Encoder for foobar?

Scott

No, you are correct. The catch is that the "just be a matter of adding that into the "comment" field" part is the unknown piece here.

Actually now that I think of it, I think Otto42 determined that the first series of alphanumeric characters (00001020) is just the Sound Check value from the database. But the rest of the groups are apparently unknown, unless someone can point me to more recent information.

I would suggest asking in the Foobar 2000 General forum, or maybe one of the other Hydrogen Audio forums, such as AAC - General.

Since Foobar's MP4/AAC support is based off of FAAD, I would guess that FAAD would have to support ALAC before support could be added to Foobar/foo_pod. ALAC was discussed here, and one of the FAAD developers posted several times, so they are definitely aware of ALAC.

Yeah, that sounds like a bug, but without more detailed information or steps to reproduce the problem, I'm not sure how to help. At least for the past few versions, I haven't experienced any missing song problems like you describe, so I am interested in trying to find out what happened.

You could use the Components->foo_pod->Export iTunesDB as XML feature to save the database to a XML file, then search through it to see if your missing albums are there.

hmm more detailed specs: p3, W2k, Foobar 8.1, latest foo_pod, LAME --aps encoded files, Unicode ID3v2 tagged files. I hope this is enough. I dont see why there should be anything wrong with this setup... maybe foobar8.2?
I've had the problem with foo_pod 0.5 too, back when foobar 8.1 was the latest release (i think??)

edit: i've tried to upload one single album from that previously mentioned folder. It still doesnt work. the albumname is nothing fancy (D:\MP3's\ambient\liquid morphine - grijsgebied)

There is nothing wrong with your setup, but I was looking more for detailed steps to reproduce the problem. For example, how are you transferring files to the iPod - are you using Send Selected, Send Playlist, Sync Playlist, Send All Playlist, or Sync All Playlists? Can you delete all songs and playlists, then reproduce the problem? Do you get any warnings or errors in the Foobar console?

If you want, export your iTunesDB file as XML, zip it up, and email it to me (foopod (at) argz.com) and I'll see if there is anything pecular with it.

haha okay, i misread!

- I removed ALL my music files + all manually made playlists (not the dynamic ones: top 25, recently played, blabla)
- I enqueued one single album containing 11 files
- I selected all and rightclicked > foo_pod: Send selected files to iPod
- I see the Transferring files... window, transferring complete, no error msgs
- I browse the iPod using explorer (diskmode?): the files are there
- I start iTunes: no files
- I unplug the iPod and browse it: no files

how do i export that DB file?

Thanks, that looks like a very concise test case.

To export the database XML file, go to the Components menu, then foo_pod, then "Export iTunesDB Database as XML". foo_pod will then ask you where you want to save the file, save it as something like problem.xml. Then email me the problem.xml file and I'll see if there is anything in there that would point to the problem.

One potential problem that isn't related to foo_pod is how your cleaned your iPod. If you deleted the songs in iTunes, then that should be ok. If you just deleted songs off of the iPod using Windows Explorer, then the database was not updated and I would expect that there would be problems, since the iPod does not react well to songs that are in the database, but not on the iPod.

One last question - if you load the iPod playlist in Foobar (Component menu, foo_pod, Load iPod Songs to 'iPod (foo_pod)'), so you see the album you just transferred?

Edit: One other source of a potential problem - if you have iTunes set up to automatically sync when you start iTunes or connect your iPod, then it is likely removing the songs you transferred with foo_pod. The problem is that iTunes sees songs on the iPod that don't exist in its library, and deletes them from the iPod. So you might want to test that you can transfer files via foo_pod and verify that they are on the iPod before starting up iTunes.

That's correct, the first value in that big ugly comment string is the value that iTunes puts into the iTunesDB as the SoundCheck field. foo_pod is now putting a ReplayGain value in that field, since we worked out the conversion equation.

However, the rest of the stuff in that comment baffles me. I don't know what any of it means, and I can't find any obvious correspondence to anything anywhere. But if you figure it out, let us know.

Aero,
I don't know if you do file extension checking in foo_pod or not, but be sure to add "M4B" as an acceptable file extension, if you haven't already. This is a bookmarkable AAC file, meaning that the iPod will remember where it left off when you stop and restart playing it. Handy for audio books. Yes, it works with unencrypted files as well, just rename m4a to m4b and voila.

I don't explicitly do anything with file extensions, but it looks like Foobar's MP4 decoder does:


So you might want to contact zZzZzZzZzZzZz and ask him to add *.M4B to that list.

You can temporarily add it to the Nero Decoding Plugin's list, although it woud be better to add it to foobar itself.

Version 0.6.2 is now available.


This version adds the ability to copy files from the iPod to your hard drive, formatted according to a user-configurable standard Foobar TAGZ string.

In simpler terms, it means that you can select files on the iPods, select "Save iPod File to disk", and it will copy them to your local hard drive and arrange them according to the format you provide.

For example, the default format string is basically equivalent to %artist%\%album%\%tracknumber% - %title%, so after you provide the base directory, foo_pod will build the artist and album directories, and copy the iPod files to the correct locations. So the song The Thing That Should Not Let It Be (track number 05) by the group Beatallica off of the A Garage Dayz Nite album would be copied to Beatallica\A Garage Dayz Nite\05 - The Thing That Should Not Let It Be.mp3

I intend on making the preference for this a drop down box, so multiple formats can be chosen from. If you have a good TAGZ format string that you think others could use, email or PM it to me and I'll consider including it in the next foo_pod release.

In 0.6.2, I also fixed the context menu/iPod mount problem reported by Fickle.


From the Readme:

Hi Aero,

You mentioned something about auto-updating. I let iTunes auto-update the playlists only, not the music files themselves. I thought this couldn't be the problem, but i tested whether this could be causing the problem anyway. Uploaded a random album with foo_tunes, undocked the iPod and the album was there. Then I deleted the album with iTunes, closed iTunes, uploaded it yet again with foo_tunes and started iTunes. The files were gone!

Problem solved

thanx

Cool! I really do like the freshly added option!

This new feature rules Thanks Aero !

Great feature! Good to know for if I ever lose my music on my hard drive.

Thanks.

Not possible. If you have "auto-update" enabled in iTunes, then what it's doing is auto-updating the entire iPod from whatever parameters you have selected.

So if you have it set to "auto-update" from a playlist called "bob", for example, then what will happen when iTunes auto-updates is that every song in bob will get copied to the iPod, and every song on the iPod not in bob will be removed. Also, the playlist bob will be copied over to the iPod.

If you have it set for more than one playlist, then it works the same way.. Any songs in the playlist will get copied to the iPod, anything on the iPod not in any of those playlists gets blown away.

The only way to stop iTunes from blowing away music on the iPod is to put it into full manual mode. There is no other way to do it.

What currently happens when the iPod is out of space? I have tried to fill my 40GB 3G iPod with my 80GB library, and foo_pod did not say anything.

Theoretically, foo_pod should continue to try to copy files, display a warning on the Foobar console for each file that can't be copied, and everything should be ok.

However, I have noticed that sometimes there are problems related to running out of disk space, including problems writing the database. I have been meaning to try to reproduce and fix the problem(s), but I haven't gotten around to it. Besides, if I don't hear about a bug/problem on the forum or through email, I am less motivated to fix it!

Actually, I'm glad you mentioned this, Aero. I've been having problems with loading songs onto my 10GB iPod the last few days, but haven't had any time to examine the problem closely. I get an error message similar to "no space on device" and "restoring db" at the end of the errors.

I do know my iPod is not out of space, as I've removed all songs and playlists from it, both from foo_pod, and from iTunes (but not when both are running simultaneously, of course).

I can load songs/playlists from iTunes without problems, and have even gone as far as restoring the iPod with Apple's updater. Even after that, foo_pod reported there was no free space on my iPod.

I won't be able to do any testing until Saturday or Sunday, but I'm open to suggestions on how to acquire more data on this issue.

I hope this helps the motivation factor, becasue I'm going into replagain withdrawl!

I'm pretty close to posting the next foo_pod version, which reserves 10MB of disk space to prevent weird problems due to filling up all of the free disk space. I believe iTunes actually reserves 20MB, and I don't think anyone will be too put out over losing 2-3 songs worth of space.

As for your problem, I don't know why foo_pod would be reporting that the iPod is out of space if it actually isn't. I know I've never experienced a problem similar to that. If you can reproduce the problem, post or email the exact Foobar console output. Also try the upcoming 0.6.3 version to see if it is any better.

Version 0.6.3 is now available.

This adds a combo box for the "Save iPod Files To Disk" feature, so you can easily switch between different formats. It also has the 10MB reserve space feature that I mentioned above, to hopefully take care of out-of-disk space problems.


From the Readme:

hey there!

thank you for that wonderful plugin! i love it!
the only thing i need now is a playcount withwhat you can create smart-playlists so u can replace itunes completely.

I figured it out. I've been forcing foo_pod to use a specific drive letter, and for some reason another firewire device is not being detected by my machine (I may have accidentally ejected it). So foo_pod was looking for my iPod as drive K:, when it was actually drive J:


All is well now. Thanks for all the great work you've done on foo_pod.

Thanks!

I actually was playing around with Play Counts this afternoon, and I finally I understand how it is used by the iPod.

I was wondering why the Play Counts files contained not only the play counts for each song, but also the last played time and the stars rating (and one unknown field). Then it dawned on me: the iTunesDB file is never modified by the iPod - all of the dynamic information is stored in the Play Counts file. I surmise that right after iTunes reads the database file, it also reads the data in Play Counts. Then it updates the database with the play count, last played time, and stars rating, deletes Play Counts, and writes iTunesDB back to the iPod.

Maybe this isn't earthshattering news to many people, but at least now that I really understand what needs to be done, I can add it to foo_pod. So I am going to duplicate those actions in foo_pod, and make the rating and play count available as Foobar metadata. Since all of the data is stored in the iTunesDB file, there is no need to modify the songs on the iPod or use the Foobar database.

What this all means is that as soon as I finish the work on Play Counts, not only will the play counts and star ratings be compatible with iTunes/Smart Playlists, but also compatible with the various Foobar components that use play counts/ratings, such as Play Counter and Quick Tag.



Edit: Not really foo_pod related (yet...), but while I was searching around for information on Play Counts, I found a whole site devoted to smart playlists.

I should probably put some warning into foo_pod for when you are forcing the drive letter, but foo_pod still can't find an iPod...

I'm glad you were able to figure it out so quickly!

OK... Got my iPod, loaded some songs inside, and I encountered this problem.

I add songs into a playlist, and I sync the iPod, but whenever I sync it the 2nd time, I get a 2nd playlist of the exact songs.

ie, I sync for the first time, I get Foo_Pod, but when I sync for the 2nd time,I get this playlist called "rnd_Foo_Pod". The song listings are the same though.

Anyone knows what's happening?

Version 0.6.4 is now available.

This version adds the initial support for the Play Count, Star rating, and Last Played metadata. When needed, foo_pod reads the Play Counts file from the iPod, adds the data to the iTunesDB database file, and displays the metadata in Foobar (see below). I haven't tested it, but I believe that writing this data to the database will allow smart playlists that use play count or ratings to work correctly when syncing with foo_pod.

The metadata is not saved to the iPod files themselves, so if you reload the metadata from the file, the play count/rating/last played data is lost. To recover it, reload the foo_pod playlist.



From the Readme:

foo_pod has an option to create a randomized playlist - uncheck "Send Randomize Playlist" in the foo_pod Preferences if you don't want it.

Gee, thanks for the tip!
Another problem that I face:

I have 2 playlists, and that I am trying to add these 2 playlists in.

But the problem is that I can't seem to add the 2 playlists in, even though all the songs are in there.

I can only add the songs in, but I can't add another playlist in...
And sometimes when I add the songs from another playlist in, it seems to delete all the songs from my 1st playlist.

Is this a bug, or is it me?
I think someone should start writing a guide for n00bs like me though!!

Great work...

You need to understand the difference between Send and Sync.

Send means, add this playlist to the iPod, as well as whatever is in it (As long as it is not already there).

Sync means, remove everything from the iPod except this playlist and what is in it.

I get the feeling that you're always pressing sync.

I could have told you that. I think I tried to, actually. Sorry, I'm just not good at explaining abstract type things, as I don't often try to do so.

But yes, you're right. The iPod only modifies the Play Counts file and the OTGPlaylist file, AFAICT.

Question: If you add this metadata to foobar, won't that change the files themselves when the metadata is written to those files? Might throw a problem into syncing, I think.

Yeah, looking back you did do a good job of explaining it. I just wasn't paying attention...


As for the metadata, Foobar has the a "hint" concept when creating/displaying metadata. What that means is that a component can supply metadata to Foobar that is independant of the actual file's metadata. I use this in foo_pod to extract data from the iTunesDB (such as Title, Artist, song length - and now star rating and play count) and create a hint (think virtual metadata). As long as you don't forcibly reload the real metadata from the file, this virtual metadata is displayed and used by Foobar.

So to answer your question, I don't currently change music files on the iPod. I actually do have some (disabled) code in foo_pod to change the iPod music files, but it turns out that the virtual metadata is almost as good, and it is a lot faster since it doesn't have to write tags to the files.

Hey,

I'm sorry if this derails from the metadata conversation (feel free to split this to a new topic if you like) but i was wondering what the best option would be to get .shn files playing on an ipod. I realise I'll have to convert them, just wondering whats the best way to do it to ensure good quality files. ps: thanks for foo_pod, working perfectly over here!

I would recommend waiting a day or two...

I'm currently working on adding transcoding support to foo_pod. When it, is finished, you will be able to transfer any Foobar-supported file format to the iPod, and foo_pod will automatically convert it to an MP3 so that it can be played on the iPod.

Until that is ready, what you want to do is use the DiskWriter / Convert feature in Foobar to convert the Shorten files to either MP3 or AAC format, then transfer those files to the iPod using foo_pod.


BTW, in case people haven't seen it, the latest listening test at 128kbps is out, and Lame 3.96 encoded 128kbps files did very well compared to more modern formats (basically equal in quality to iTunes AAC).

Transcoding on the fly? That's pretty cool. Could take a while to transfer all your collection over though.

On my middle-of-the-road 2GHz Athlon system, LAME 3.96 with ABR encoding (pure VBR is slower) can encode at about 10x speed. My test file is a 3:34 minute WMA file, and it transcodes in about 22 seconds, which also includes the time to write the resulting MP3 file to the iPod.

So it isn't blindingly fast, but depending on your computer, it is probably fast enough that uploading an album or two isn't going to be too painful. For more files or a slower system, you would want to let it run overnight. But once you have transcoded the files, you shouldn't have to do it again unless you delete them from the iPod.

Just a quick transcoding update: except for some code cleanup and implementing a preference dialog, transcoding is just about done. Hopefully I'll have some thing ready for you to test later today...

Here is some sample output from transcoding the two Beatallica albums (340MB of FLAC encoded audio):

Version 0.7 is now available.

Well, here it is! The first version of foo_pod with transcoding support. Now, any file type that Foobar can play is now able to be transferred and played by the iPod. Other than the extra time it takes to transcode the files, the process should be fairly transparent. You use foo_pod just like before, except now, you don't have to worry that the input files are in the right format. Even ReplayGain/SoundCheck settings, if present, will be transferred to the transcoded files.

I included Lame 3.96 to encode the files to MP3 format, and provide two settings (along with a setting to disable transcoding) that are appropriate for a mobile player - ff123's recommended 128kbps ABR setting and --preset fast standard. Both should produce good quality output, but if space is not a concern, --preset fast standard is the one you should use for the best quality (128kbps is the default, however).

To use transcoding, you need 2 additional DLLs along with lame.exe. Copy foo_podtranscoder.dll and foo_podclienc.dll to the Components directory along with foo_pod.dll, and put a copy of lame.exe in the main Foobar2000 directory.


I'd like to thank Peter and the authors of foo_clienc. They did most of the hard work for adding transcoding support - I just had to modify their components slightly for use with foo_pod.


From the Readme:

I don't even own an iPod, but it would be fun if you could transcode with FAAC too So I'd like to ask if you have plans on that...Since AAC is more of less the "native" format for iPods, AFAIK.

Does this make sense?

Now it just needs to be merged into a single library It's a bit silly having 3 files for one component.

me again...
would it be possible just to use every diskwriter component that i can use to transcode with foobar with foo_pod e.g. nero mp4 codec?

I seriously considered using AAC encoding instead of LAME/MP3, but I did some research and found that there are several good reasons to use MP3.

1. LAME 3.96 has been tested to be just as good as iTunes' AAC encoder (at 128kbps). Since iTunes' encoder has been tested to be as good or better than any of the other tested encoders (including Nero, again at 128kbps), quality-wise, there wouldn't seem to be much reason to use AAC. AAC might be the native format for iTunes/iTunes Music Store, but MP3 is just as "native" for the iPod.

2. I have read various posts that claim that some non-iTunes encoded AAC files can crash the iPod. I'm sure that this has been addressed already, but combined with my lack of experience with AAC encoding, I didn't want to risk it.

3. LAME Just Works and it is fast. Just the fact that there is a special guide telling people how to encode iTunes compatible AAC files worries me. Also, the clienc based encoder is just a temporary stop-gap solution - I plan on replacing it with the LAME_enc.dll library at some point to avoid having to go through the command line interface.

4. The built-in transcoder is supposed to be simple and foolproof. That means limiting the options, somewhat. By making this design decision, I knew that I would hear from AAC and "I only encode at '--preset extreme insane ludicious', you insensitive clod!" people.

5. While the patent issues remains, LAME (and I guess FAAD, for that matter) is open source and freely available to eveyone, while something like Nero's AAC encoder might be freely available, but it is commercial software. So it would require the user to do a separate download, which would violate point #4 above.


Unless someone can convince me that AAC is better (remember Hydrogen Audio's famous Rule #8) and faster than LAME, I believe that LAME and the MP3 format is the right choice for foo_pod's built-in transcoder. As you can probably tell, I'm running out of room with the current Preference dialog. If I go to a tabbed view and open up more space, I will consider adding support for alternate encoders.

You still only need foo_pod.dll, unless you want transcoding support.. And if you are keeping score, you need 4 files for one component - foo_pod.dll, foo_podtranscoder.dll, foo_podclienc.dll, AND lame.exe.

But since you offered, perhaps you could write a simple NSIS based installer for foo_pod, so all of this would be invisible to the end user...

Regardless of the results of recent listening tests, it should be up to the user on which format they wish to use. NeroAAC files now work fine on the new ipod firmware as do they in new newer versions of iTunes. The special guide was written before these changes were made.

I'm fine with using LAME for transcoding, and I already have a copy of the encoder on my system which can be chosen among others with foo_clienc. Couldn't foobar's transcoder be used? foo_pod's is not very flexible being that it only supports one codec and two command options. There are several AAC codecs that could be used which rival or surpass LAME in their quality, and it should be up to the user to decide which they wish to use. Of course you can always transcode then transfer to the ipod, but that's what this feature is trying to make easier. The transcoder is a very nice feature, but I think you should take adding more flexibility as an option, or simply use foobars clienc. Thank you for all your work on this plugin

You are assuming that I want it to be flexible...

I want the transcoder to be foolproof . By limiting the options, I can (hopefully) control the rather complicated transcoding process, so if there are problems, they are easier to reproduce and fix. Since Foobar already has an excellent DiskWriter, anyone who wants to use their own encoder or settings can do so - they just have to do a two step process of encoding then transferring to the iPod (as you mentioned later on in your post).

That said, as soon as there is room in the Preference dialog, I will add the ability to specify a user defined encoder setting just like can be done with foo_clienc right now.

Just wanted to give a big thanks to you Aero. I got my iPod last week and unlike my girlfriend have never had to deal with iTunes thanks to your plugin. The transcoder is a fantastic addition and will allow me to use my 30 GB MPC collection on my iPod. My only complaint is that the transcoding really seemed to lock up foobar during the process, not a big deal just an observation. I think having the ability to make ecnoder choices in the future will be great but the two settings you chose are the two best I believe.

Once again thanks a ton Aero.

Thanks for your kind words - I really appreciate them!


The lockup situation happens for regular file transfers as well. foo_pod locks the Foobar song database/playlists when it is processing files to prevent other components or the user from changing things while the transfer is taking place.

Probably the best workaround is to copy your whole Foobar directory to a new directory (say "Foo_podbar2000"), and use that copy when you will be doing lengthy iPod related operations. You can run multiple copies of Foobar, as long as they are in separate directories, so you can keep your normal Foobar for regular use.

i could'nt have said it better! thx.