I know, I was hoping that Apple would have release a firmware upgrade for the 3G iPods to give them some (if not all) of the new software features of the 4G

Yes; most of the 4G improvements are firmware based. I wonder if the iPod Updater can be hacked and forced to install version 3.0 on 3G iPods... will be interesting.
I'm not much of a hacker/cracker, but I'll see what I can discover about how the updater makes the decision of which version to install on the mounted iPod. Maybe you, Otto, may have a better chance at figuring this one out.

The iPod's filesystem supports deleting them just fine, as proven by the iPod Linux Project, so it's just Apple's annoying marketing scheme. Maybe someone will hack the firmware patch, or someone will emulate the iPod's menu/player system on iPod Linux.

Just like ye ol' battle between Windows and Linux, though without the firmware bit.

Getting it on there is easy. Filling it with illegal drugs and sending it across the border is not.

Err.. I mean, that getting the firmware onto the device is not difficult to do, it's whether it'll run or not that's the big question. It may simply not be compatible. However, I'm betting that they will incorporate some of these new features into the older 3G iPod's. I'd say to give them some time. Some of the features added into 3rd gen iPod's made it down into 1st/2nd gen iPods too, as they released new firmwares for both simultaneously. The only time they've shown not to add new features is when the older hardware was not capable of supporting it, like in the case of the auto-updating smart playlists (older iPods are simply not fast enough to do this in a reasonable amount of time given the current DB format and such, and they may lack the memory to do it well also).

It is my understanding that the 4G iPods use the same CPU(s) as the iPod Mini (PortalPlayer 5020), while all previous iPods use a variant of the PP5002 (same CPUs as the 5020, but different support hardware), so forcing the 4G firmware onto a 3G iPod likely will not work.

I'm sure Apple could have made dynamic smart playlists work on 1G/2G iPod, but like OTG playlists, it was a defining feature that set the 3G iPods apart. That's also why multiple OTG playlists, the new menu structure, and the shuffle songs feature will likely never be available on 3G iPods, even though it istechnically possible.

Well, it seems that to trick the iPod Updater all it takes is some really simple ResHack-ing, swaping some resources and editing some strings. I didn't try it though in fear of permanent damage to the iPod. Later, I was over at iPodlounge and someone, on OSX, decided to dare and try it and he says it just brings up a disk scanner error message on the iPod so he regressed back to 2.2... too bad, I guess. Maybe some hexing of the actual firmware and not just the updater can make it work on the 3G? Hmmm... I wonder if it's actually worth the bother... maybe the improved battery life is.

Ipod g4 owner here. Just wanted to report that foo_pod seems to be working fine.

This is my first iPod, so I'm not experienced enough with either the iPod or foo_pod to be able to tell if everything is working 100% correctly, but so far so good.

Thanks for this great plug-in!

I use ml_iPod and foo_pod too with my 3g 15gig iPod and I've found that while the smart playlists in foo_pod work, they mysteriously stop working after i edit the itunesdb with ml_iPod. Is there a particular reason for this? I like both plugins and would like to continue using both.

ml_iPod does not support true smart playlists. I've been working with the developer to help him add that support. Well, basically I told him how it works then I just let him actually do it.

Anyway, yes, ml_iPod currently knows nothing about the special mhod types for smart playlists, and so it will not write them out when it updates the iPod's database file. Only solution is not to use ml_iPod at the moment, because it will destroy a true smart playlist.

Edit: Also, and I admit I'm not 100% sure on this, foo_pod doesn't actually populate smart playlists except in some special cases (1st or 2nd gen iPod or SPL uses Playlist or Grouping rules). If this is true, as I think it probably is (for speed reasons), then if you have a 3rd gen or higher, and the SPL in question does not contain a grouping or playlist rule, then all that's really being written to the iPod is the rules itself. The iPod then figures out what's supposed to be in the playlist. In this case, programs like ml_iPod may not show the playlist correctly in their display of what's on the iPod. It'll appear to be empty. This is because it actually is empty, it just contains the necessary rules. iTunes actually fills in all the songs for all the smart playlists, but foo_pod only does it in certain cases because a) it's faster and b) you don't notice any real difference in normal usage anyway.

ml_iPod also lacks support for a lot of other things in there as well. One thing he did add, like last week or something, was reading and writing of all the extra track data in the mhit structures, so stuff like the ReplayGain info that foo_pod will put in there should be preserved if you use the latest ml_iPod. It would be erased if you are using an older ml_ipod version. I recommend keeping up to date on it as he changes it.

Thanks for the report!

As Otto noted, this is almost certainly due to ml_ipod not understanding the smart playlist section in the iPod database, and instead of just copying and ignoring it, they are simply omitting it.

Out of curiousity, why do you want to use ml_ipod? By that, I mean is there any special feature or function that isn't available in foo_pod (other than the fact that it runs in Winamp)?

Hi Aero, could you consider adding a "minimize" button to the transfer-in-progress window? (like the button in the "processing files" window that shows up when adding a lot of tracks to foobar's queue) If i add a couple of thousand songs to the iPod, i can't use my pc for about an hour, cause foobar can't be minimized during the proces.

tia

(i hope this hasnt been implemented in another way i havent noticed yet can't use foobar's native minimize button, that's for sure)

Actually in version 0.9.2, there is an option to hide the Foobar window during transfers. That should take care of most of your problem.

As far the minimize button on the progress windows, there actually is supposed to one there. I'm using the same progress windows as Windows Explorer, and I have the minimize button option enabled, but it doesn't seem to work. I'll have to look into it further, but untili that is working, you might be able to minimize the window by pressing Windows Key + D, or right click on the Windows task bar and select Show Desktop.

Geez, i still was on 0.9.1a, i must have missed your 9.2 post

got 9.2 now, it does exactly what i want it to do! thanx!

btw: Windows Key + D won't work when it's not minimized. everything will minimize except for foobar, which will just stay as it is. But heck, it minimizes itself automatically

I am still having problems with playlists ignored in foobar2000 appearing as empty playlists on the iPod.

Perhaps the problem is that during a Sync All Playlists, playlists that are ignored but exist on the iPod are not deleted?

Hi all! New to this board! I would like to start off by thanking the author of this component. IT ROCKS! Without it, I can't imagine having to put up with ITunes in order to sync my music!! Thanks a lot!

Anyways, I'm having a problem with ignored playlists, still showing up on my iPod, when using the sync and send all. I'm using the latest plugin (0.92 i think).

I think this began happening after I installed the latest foobar, but this is not definate.

I've tried toggling the ignore and not ignored states to see if it would remedy the problem, but to no avail. So.. just asking if there's any solutions to this problem! (or if anyone has experienced it themselves!)

In the Smart Playlist Editor, could you make the "Limit" clickable, as well as the check button? Like <label> in XHTML, if you've come across them... It's a good overall principle to make forms work this way.

Thanks!



This problem has been reported a few times (includes DocUK's post right before yours), but I have never been able to narrow down the problem. I just picked up a 2nd iPod for development use, but I don't have a lot of free time at the moment to work on foo_pod. I'll try to reproduce and fix the ignored playlist problem in the next release.

This has been asked before (the foo_pod preferences work in the same fashion).

Basically, I can do this, but I like the way it is now, so changing it is a very low priority.

Okay... I would like to see it changed soon anyways. What is high priority right now?

BTW, the new iPod I bought is a 4G iPod. It just arrived today, so I haven't had much time to play with it, but here are my initial impressions:

Good:

• It came with an USB cable, and it is just an USB cable, not the ungainly Firewire/USB cable that Apple previously sold. And the iPod actually charges via the USB cable now. I have it hooked up to an unpowered USB2 hub, and I haven't had any power problems yet.
• The multiple On The Go playlist feature, which actually makes OTG useful. How this works is after you create the OTG playlist, as usual, you can go to Playlists->On-The-Go and there is a Save Playlist option as well as the 3G's Clear Playlist option. After you click Save Playlist, the previous OTG playlist shows up as a regular playlist, except it is named "New Playlist n" (you apparently can't rename these).
  Note for Otto - each saved OTG playlist is saved in the iTunes directory as "OTGPlaylistInfo_1", "OTGPlaylistInfo_2", etc. The unsaved OTG playlist is still OTGPlaylistInfo. I haven't tried parsing the saved OTG playlists yet, but it appears to be a standard MHPO. Shame on Apple if they don't back port this feature to 3G iPods...
• Speed - the new iPod is much faster at crunching data. For example, after adding a song, undocking, and selecting the Artist menu, the 4G iPod was maybe 2x as fast at getting to the menu as my 3G iPod.
• No incompatibilities with foo_pod...

Bad:

• The click wheel is really going to take some getting used to. Not only are the buttons on the wheel now, but you have to physically press on the wheel and it indents. I'm sure it is sturdy and well tested, but I can't get the old Atari 2600 joystick out of my mind when I use it. For those who don't remember or are too young, the standard Atari joysticks had little metal domes for the left, right, up, and down direction contacts. After extended use (like a single event in Activision Decathalon...), the domes would flatten out and the joystick wouldn't work right until you unscrewed it and bent the domes back. On the 4G iPod, even the center button clicks and the button is physically separate from the wheel, so little bits of dirt and finger grease might get in there. I'm sure I'll learn to live it it, but the light touch/no touch buttons on the 3G iPods seem much more elegant.
• Size - I wasn't expecting a big difference, but you need a micrometer to detect any size difference between the 3G and 4G iPods.

There are a few other minor changes, like the Shuffle Songs menu item (I haven't tried it yet), and the wheel clicker noise can be configured to play through the speaker, the headphones, or both. So the 4G iPod is basically a faster 3G iPod with slightly better software (that should run on a 3G anyway) and a (maybe) worse user interface.

Starting a new job and learning C#

Oh, you mean as far as foo_pod is concerned. My biggest focus now is adding regular playlist support to the smart playlist editor (and hence making it just the Playlist Editor). Ideally, I want to make it so you can open up the PE, create a new playlist or edit an existing one, drag files from the Foobar window, and delete songs from the playlist.

Also now that I have the new iPod, adding something to deal with OTG playlists is suddenly a high(er) priority, along with potentially adding support for dealing with multiple iPods.

I think I'm sticking with my 3rd gen pod until Apple gets off their asses and make some REAL changes.

If they don't release the new firmware to 3rd gen users I will also hate them for an eternity.

Edit; I am happy to hear about the improved speed though.

C#? I haven't decided if that's a mayor EWW yet... given any thought to Java? I'm kinda interested in starting programming for real.

But you can edit playlists directly in foobar? ...can't you?

Of course this also means you'll be able to get a 3G Ipod cheap as well. I finally got to play with a Mini-Ipod the other day, and I think the move to the click wheel in the end is a good move for the 4G. Still wondering how the sound compares.

Scott

OT again...
Speaking of sound quality, it has been reported in iPodlounge that there are some complaints of the 4G iPod having some interference with the internal components of the iPod - static, and the likes.

//un-OT

Just to ask, is foo_pod able to directly edit the information in the iPod DB, and subsequently update the ID tags in the MP3s itself (in short, works like iTunes, where you can just edit the info in iTunes directly)?

Is it also possible to update the ratings in foo_pod itself?

I could remember that I once meddled with the DB entries, and I screwed it up...
To backup the DB, the playlists (both smart and dumb ), can I just copy the iPodDB file in the iPod Control folder?

Boy, that sure makes it easy, doesn't it? Look for the OTGPlaylistInfo_X files, parse them into iPod_mhpo's, convert them into new iPod_mhlp's to make them into real playlists which can be manipulated through whatever exists to manipulate them, delete the OTG files. Done and done.

Yeah, I've done Java development in the past, and it is good for what it does. But the future of Windows development is unquestionably .NET based, and with projects like Mono, it looks like C#/.NET could be a nice cross platform development environment. Sorta like Java could have been, but for various reasons, never really took off. But I digress...


You can edit Foobar playlists, but you can currently only create iPod playlists and/or add songs to them. My iPod playlist editor will let you add/remove playlists, rename them, and probably do some basic editing like add/remove songs.

I haven't noticed any difference in sound quality between the 3G and 4G. I have heard electronic interference related noise on my 3G in the past, though. Usually after undocking...


Not really. You can use Foobar to modify the ID3/APE tags of songs anywhere, including on the iPod. But there really isn't a good way to update the iPod database after a song is already on the iPod (you can delete and resend it).


If you have the RATING metadata set before you transfer the song (0 - 5), foo_pod will convert that and store it in the iPod database. But like I said, there isn't a good way to update songs that are already on the iPod.


Yes, backing up iTunesDB will backup regular and smart playlists.

Otto likes this because all of his work is done, and it is passed off on the application developer...

Speaking of new features that should be on the 3G (and earlier) iPods...the new Shuffle Songs menu option is an interesting feature, but one that Apple ultimately botched and implemented in the wrong way.

Shuffle Songs is a new (optional) main menu item that activates a sort-of temporary shuffle mode. When you select it, the shuffle indicator (on the Now Playing screen) is displayed, and songs shuffle as usual, but the Shuffle menu item setting doesn't change. For example, if Shuffle is turned off, it stays off but the indicator appears and the songs shuffle. Also, it obeys the Shuffle setting, so if you have Shuffle set to albums, Shuffle Songs will shuffle by album (otherwise it shuffles by song).

Unfortunately, the only way to disable Shuffle Songs seems to be to change the current scope (changing to a different artist, for example). And the fact that songs shuffle and the indicator appears, while the Shuffle setting still says "Off" is simply a mistake. What Apple should have done is just make the Shuffle setting an optional Main Menu item - then you could control it without having to navigate to an extra menu and back, and the shuffle preference would be consistant.

(sorry for the OT)



I'm a student, and as such have done a lot of java in school, as well as more at work to automate various tasks on data files. I'm just starting on c# now (got the book yesterday!) and so far i really like it. The code is a lot like Java (actually its virtually identical), but without the horrors of Swing. As for the .net framework, I'm just getting started and do know much of anything about it yet. However from what i've read it looks really nice (and a LOT easier for windows centric things like registry access which is a horrible mess of native methiods to c libraries in java ).

If mono really does take off, it could be what Java was supposed to have been.

Well, if you'd pass along the code, then I might have a choice in the matter.

Zing!

Heh...

One very cool thing about the 4G iPods is that SoundCheck now works through the Line Out port on the dock connector!

This was one of my gripes about the 3G iPods, since SoundCheck only worked through the headphone jack, which made things like this much less useful. SoundCheck via Line Out also seems to be something that could be fixed in software on earlier iPods by simply scaling the decoded audio.

First, just checking in to mention that foo_pod is still hands down the best ipod software out there - it works flawlessly with my 4th gen 40 gig.

Second, when you 'load iPod songs to the '___' playlist' is foo_pod just reading the database file? If so, can that file be rewritten every time it is updated according to some sort of organization rule (preferably the same way music is organized on the iPod's display)? It is a minor annoyance that the most recently added tracks appear at the top of said playlist, so that I have to manually sort the playlist in order to know what is actually already on the ipod. It could just be me, but I'd prefer if that playlist generated from the iPod's tracks were already sorted...

Yes, Load essentially just reads the database and presents it as a Foobar playlist.

Since this is just a regular Foobar playlist, it can be sorted any way you wish, and as you see, it is just displayed in the same order that it appears in the Foobar database by default. I guess the best thing to do would be to add a preference item so the user can have a TAGZ format string to sort the iPod playlist by. Or maybe just sort by artist/album/title/tracknumber by default? Anyway, I'll do something for the next version - thanks for the suggestion!

Is it just presenting it in the same order that it's already in, in the iPodDB? Because you can just reorder that vector (or map.. whatever it is, I forget)in the mhyp and that'll be the order it gets displayed in on the iPod. At least, it should be. iTunes does it by renumbering the type 100 mhods in the mhyp, but iPodDB generates those on the write() call, so reordering the vector would reorder the playlist. I'll think about writing a function to make this simpler. Maybe we can pass it something to order by, perhaps... Hmm.

Yes, the first song in the MHLT is the first song that appears in the playlist. I'm sure that reordering the songs on the iPod is useful, but to fix this in Foobar just took one line of code to sort the playlist.

Version 0.9.3 is now available

0.9.3 adds quite a few minor features, including some recently requested items.

Highlights include the Advanced Limiter is now applied to transcoded songs, when using Foobar 0.8.3 or higher. Also, foo_pod now automatically sets default artist and/or album metadata items if they are not present, so you can always navigate to your songs on the iPod without having to go to the "All" view. Also, the foo_pod playlist is automatically sorted when loaded, and if the playlist name is empty in the preferences, foo_pod will use either the iPodService device name or the Windows drive name.

One big fix for some people is how foo_pod detects an iPod when iPodService is not available. Previously, with certain kinds of flash card readers, foo_pod would cause message boxes to appear unless you forced the iPod drive. This should now work as expected. And the special bonus feature - you can now click on the checkbox text in the Smart Playlist Editor and control the checkbox (it doesn't work in the Preferences, because the controls don't line up correctly)...


From the Readme:

Can someone please explain to me why the last two times I have updated foo_pod, when I try to update the information from a CUE file that it does not save it to the actual CUE file? When I reload the database, all my changes are gone! This is twice! What's going on here?

CUE sheet don't really work in foo_pod. The reason is that to the Foobar SDK, they appear as a single file (someone correct me if I'm missing something).

On my long term list of things to do is adding real CUE sheet support. It can be done, since the iPod allows you to set the starting and ending points in a song, so I can just transfer the audio once, and create n number of songs in the database with the correct start/stop times. However, there is no functionality in the Foobar SDK to get the start/stop times for CUE sheet songs, so I would have to parse the CUE sheet myself.

Aero,

I can definitely confirm 0.9.3 solves the problems I saw when I wasn't forcing a drive letter for my iPod. Thanks for fixing that.

Now I'm trying to use the smart playlist editor with my 1st gen iPod, and fb2k 0.8.3, and I don't understand how it works. Do I have to sync (and not send) playlists to my iPod for this to work? Is it possible I'm missing something because I use the columns UI? Any tips are appreciated.

Cool!


Short answer: just the act of creating a smart playlist in the SPL Editor and clicking Apply is all you need to do.


Long answer:
As soon as you click Apply in the Smart Playlist Editor, foo_pod creates the smart playlist(s) on the iPod. Also, Smart Playlists aren't related to the regular playlists that get created when you send/sync a Foobar playlist.

If you have an iPod that doesn't support dynamic smart playlists (i.e. a 1st or 2nd generation iPod), a smart playlist is emulated by applying the smart playlist rules to the songs on your iPod, and creating a regular playlist. This is done automatically whenever needed (i.e. you add or remove songs), so you don't have to do anything special to make it work.

In theory, smart playlists should work almost the same on a 1st or 2nd gen iPod as they do on later models, but I don't have an earlier iPod to test this on. I believe that it works in general, although there are bound to be some bugs in how the smart playlist rules are emulated.

Is there a plugin for rating songs in foobar? I can't find anything in the context menu... I want my smartlists to be based on the ratings, and if I understand correctly I should be able to sort of make smartlists directly in foobar too, with the Extended Playlist Editor?

Ah, I found Quick Tag, solved this problem swiftly.

Does "Delete All iPod Music And Playlists" format the whole iPod, or only remove the database and the music files in it? I ask because I use the iPod for disk storage, so I don't want it all to be gone. What I want is to clear the database. I have already removed all music files from I:\Ipod_control\Music\*.

Delete All deletes all music (the iPod_Control\Music directories) as well as the database file and other associated files from iPod_Control\iTunes. Otherwise, nothing else is deleted, so as long as your data isn't in the music directories, you're safe.

Hey Aero,

Nice going with foo_pod. I like the way it's coming ! My question is: Is there a way to send a playlist to the iPod without sending the music that's in the playlist? Like, I have a playlist that I made in foobar. I'd like to put that playlist on my iPod and the music is already on there. Is there a way, and if so, how do I put it on my iPod?

Thanks!

-Tristan

Thanks!

foo_pod won't transfer duplicate songs, so if they are already on the iPod, sending them again won't hurt. What this means is you can have Song A in Foobar Playlists 1 and 2, and if you send both playlists to the iPod, Song A will be copied once, but still appear in both playlists on the iPod.

So if you want to create an iPod playlist, just create a Foobar playlist and fill it up with the songs you want, then select Send Current Playlist To iPod. foo_pod will create an iPod playlist of the same name and copy files as needed.


I admit that this is somewhat confusing, but it is the best that I can do with the Foobar interface. Once the playlist editor is complete, creating and manipulating playlists will be much simplier.

I've just got an 4G ipod and foo_pod is just the sort of software i love, nice and simple, especially since i stopped using itunes. I have a couple of questions though:


1.Is it possible to rename the smart playlists that you can create using foo_pod

2. Will it be possible to delete playlists that have been created on the ipod, as i have a couple on there i would like to get rid of and i really dont want to load up itunes.

3. If i transfer files on to the ipod does it also transfer the play_count data from my pc?

Yes, just select the smart playlist you wish to rename with the left mouse button, wait about a second, and click it again. It works the same as renaming files in Windows Explorer.


It isn't currently possible to delete regular playlists, but as soon as I complete the general Playlist Editor, you will be able to create, rename, and delete regular and smart playlists.


No, foo_pod does not currently support transferring play counts from the PC to the iPod (it does transfer from the iPod to the PC, though).