well, iriver has a beta2 of their ogg firmware

http://www.iriver.com/support/download_vie...=&p_name=&word=

why is the bitrate range a paltry 96-160 kbs? That is, quite frankly, a ludicrous limitation. Will the final ogg firmware retain this? could it be solved if they removed WMA support?

That is why they call it beta2 - i guess the final won't have this issue.

I guess iMP400's CPU sucks.

Actually, I think it's more a problem with Vorbis. It seems to be somewhat CPU intensive to decode.

AFAIK it's a memory problem - and it's one reason why they were thinking about throwing things out in Vorbis II.

A ludicrous limitation of Vorbis, quite frankly.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=ST&f=9&t=6975

A ludicrous limitation of hardware IMO. 60 kB of RAM isn´t that expensive these days (although it is raising costs of course).

Maik

Don't count on it, iRiver promised Ogg Vorbis support across it's range (if possible) but now seems to be struggling to fulfill that. What you see may be what you get.

But all other formats can cope with 48k of ram just fine

That`s true. However, more ram could make implementation easier (saving money at R&D). And: You can use ram for other things too (user interface, buffering for gapless playback etc.)

It seems the iPod has even enough memory for a proper OS... Apple wouldn´t "waste" money on ram without reason.

Edit: typo and horrible grammer (now slightly less aaaaaarhg!)

iRiver supports the entire range on their HD based players. The problem of limited range support only exists on some of their flash and CD players. Could be a engineering wetware problem more than a hardware limitation.

jmho

rs

Their CD-based portables use CL EP7309 or 7312 CPUs.

iOmega HipZips used a lower end EP7209 and they could play beta 4 Vorbis files without any trouble, so I suppose memory or CPU horsepower isn't of significant importance.

Could it be because of the UI and the DSP system?

it's amazing, iriver ifp 5xx with new 1.32 firmware perfectly plays OGG up to q8.69 (~320). So, where is the limitations ~225?.. cool wadda you say?

I have an iRiver iMP-400, and i have been waiting nearly forever for a firmware that would play back Ogg Vorbis at quality 7, and support gapless playback. Now i don't think i will ever get that on this player. I regret i ever bought it.

My Rio Karma gaplessly plays Vorbis files from q-1 to q10.

Huzzah!

iRiver iHP-1xx too since a long time (iHP120 arrival)...
And now iriver new H3xx and iAudio M3 by Cowon...

Ummm, the iRiver H140 (ihp140) does not play ANYTHING gapless at this time.

iRiver has a firmware update that is due out any day (actually was due out in May and the second half of the update was due in June) that addresses the gapless issue in their HD players.

Due to engineering wetware problems, overextended new product introductions and management priorities this firmware is late.

AFAIK no other player on the market has gapless support yet (i could be wrong) but you could always take your laptop with you and get gapless via foobar.

rs

Oh sorry i've mistaken and didn't read "gaplessly"...
Yes indeed actually only Karma has gapless ability both for OGG and mp3...
iRiver has promised gapless playback (maybe for ogg and mp3, but mybe only for ogg) We're still waiting unfrotunately...
Recently i've heard some rumous that the iAudio M3 will in *near* future offer gapless playback via a firmware update...
Wait and see...

I echo Garathor's sentiments about greater bitrate support for the IMP series. If memory is the problem, I wouldn't at all be hurt if they offered a crippled firmware (read, one that excludes wma support) for the IMP-350. q0 support would be splendid.