http://www.accuraterip.com/offline-db/dMC-AccurateRip-db.exe

Looks like he still hasn't clarified the licensing terms, though.

No changes, clarification, or update as to who owns the data that gets submitted. Or detailed specs of how the DLL works or the format of the data, etc. etc.

Until he does, there's no point in contributing to a database that may end up being the next commercial / proprietary / closed "cddb".

Although he has claimed it'll always be open etc., it would take so little effort to guarantee that (such as officially making all data submitted public domain, and publishing the specs of the database, etc.), that the lack of that guarantee really makes you wonder.

I have said the data will be open and never commercialized, what more would you like? me to sign a piece of paper? not worth the paper...put the data as GPL? you cannot GPL data, just as you couldn't GPL telephone numbers.

I am willing to work those who want to add it into their programs, that excludes non-Windows programs (for the moment), because the integrity of the database is paramount. General specs of how to work the DLL are not published, because it is a very complex area (it took about 2 months of work to put it into EAC), it is not a simple matter of just sending CRCs along, the ripping engine has to be modified.

Regarding database you could adopt the Musicbrainz license mixed with some GPL and offer that the database always will be available (upon request?/general download) plus some way to convert it into cleartext or somesuch.

I think that would cover it.

Edit: forgot to think about the issue with algorithm values are computed/used. This have to be public too of course.

To Cey:

In my opinion, it is possible for you to have your own preference and opinion without dumping on the product.

If you choose not to use the product, then don't. I have used it and like what it offers with the drive offsets and such.

I hate to see something good shot down with unfounded criticisms. Perhaps your criticism could be toned down so less experienced people are not scared off.

I am not familiar with every little nuance of the GPL, but I didn't suggest using the GPL. I'm not a fan of the GPL, that's why I said Public Domain, along with a notice during data submission that the data is being placed into the public domain.

As for putting licenses onto data, well, yes you can. Data *can* be copyrighted and controlled, just like anything else. Even if somebody else can generate the exact same data, your copy is your copy and still under control.

(That's the very reason why nobody simply copies the CDDB database and makes their own. And even books with things as simple as trigonometry tables can be and are copyrighted. You can't copy that data even if you can generate the exact same values yourself. You can re-create it and get the same results, but you can't copy it.)

And because of that, it's always possible for you to change your mind in the future.

That's why open licensing is important. It prevents that.

The AccurateRip database isn't (and never will be) as important as cddb or freedb, but I think it's better to get these kinds of licensing issues dealt with now before it becomes more important than what it is now.


As for opening up the specs, etc.... Well, in that case, even if you make the database open, as long as you completely control the data specs and how to access & generate it, then it's still no better than if you control the database and pick and choose which programs you allow to access your data.

I didn't "dump" on the product.

A no point did I say the product was useless or crappy, etc.

My comments were clearly about the licensing issues. Until they get straighted out, I don't think it's wise for people to contribute.

And frankly, my concerns about the licensing issues should have clearly said my opinion of it was not that the product was useless or crappy etc.

I'm not quite sure how you manage to mis-read a conversation about licensing terms as "dumping on the product", but congratulations, you managed.

Why my NEC 5700B dvd drive is'nt listed in known drives offset list? I regonized the offset with Accurate rip database feature. Do I have to extract disks with it or what? I use my other drive (Liteon 24102B) for ripping CD's and I haven't used NEC yet exept for just detecting the offset.

@Cay - good idea I can put some text that says the data is submitted into the public domain.

@askoff - your drive will not appear in the database until someone does offset detection with it (3 CDs) then submits and I update the database.

I know very little about licensing and even less specific to data, but I did notice that the AudioScrobbler data is licensed under a Creative Commons Licence and also they state in their FAQ they intend to create an automated monthly data dump so that anybody who wants can have read access to the data.

As somebody who submits data to AudioScrobbler, I find such a licence and statement reassuring. Perhaps this might be suitable for the AccurateRip data also?

That would indeed be acceptable, provided people can also understand the database format.

Keeping the data open is indeed a very good thing, but it also helps if other people can actually look at the data and use it. If the data is in a proprietary format and the only way to access it is through your DLL, then you are still in control because you control the DLL. It'd be about as useful as having an encrypted file without the password.

Somebody mentioned the possibility of providing it in plain text. That would be okay. And your official one could be encrypted or such to try and prevent false submissions or such. (Although that might encourage 'forking' of the data, with somebody else doing their own version of the database.)

Whatever...

But yeah, an official statement saying that the database and submissions are public domain are quite acceptable for that part.

To Cey,

I didn't realize you would feel it necessary to attack me personally.



Perhaps there are many who are not as paranoid as you. I personally believe Spoon has made a good effort to provide proof that he is not an evil corporation out to benifit off of you personally. Heaven forbid one ounce of your efforts be exploited. This just sounds like a witch hunt to me.

Edit: Formatting

lol. You are good at finding all kinds of crazy connotations in his posts. I don't see him attacking you at that post. He's actually congratulating you for your special habilities.

Quoting you:


It wasn't shot down. Nor it was criticized. Cey just raised a concern about his fears of it going the same way CDdb went.



Oh, sorry. I guess people got a little burned out after a similar initiative went awry.



What proof? Written words on a message board? Quite some proof you have there.



Quite the opposite, it sounds like you are obsessed with defending it, claiming things other people didn't say.

Anyway, apart from the licensing stuff, I just dropped by to say thanks for updating the DB. I sent a bunch of results over the last week and also my other cd unit was added to the drive offset list... "me happy now" hehehe

Yep, thanks for updating this. Using this with EAC is something I've quickly grown to enjoy!

Thank you for continuing your pattern of charming behavior rjamorim. I am not surprised someone with your record of forum abuse would post such a reply.

If you use the search function, you will see this topic is not new. Spoon has already responded a couple of times to this sort of accusation of possible foul play.

LOOOL. Dude, you are hopless. Now I'm abusing you?

Why don't you get some clue before coming accusing me? I wonder how much you helped this community, to believe you have the right to come accusing me of abusing it.

Grow up, man.

....And did nothing official to remedy the situation.

That was kind of my point in my first post in this thread.

I brought up the licensing issue when AccurateRip was added to the latest EAC, because it is a good idea and there was no clear definition of who owned the data or who could access it. Since then, nothing had changed. There had been no official licensing details announced. No open license to guarantee that it would always remain open. Etc.

Just another CDdb waiting to happen. And trust me... if some company came along and said "Hey, good idea. We'll buy it for us$100,000" I think it's fairly likely that most people would say "Okay!!" And hey, for all we know, there might even be some patentable ideas in his stuff. (The US patent system is screwed up.) That could prevent anybody else from doing a similar database.

Forum posts in the AccurateRip forum, private messages to developers, etc. etc. just simply are not binding or official.

And the main AccurateRip page still only gives a somewhat promise that in the future it will be opened. It doesn't say for free. And it very clearly explictly disallows one program from using AR, which clearly shows he's quite willing to disallow at least one person / program from using his stuff.

Regardless of your or my opinion of his reasons for disallowing Pokisoft from using AR, it does show he's willing to enforce his control of ownership of the AR database & DLL.

That's why an official open license is needed.

In this thread, even Spoon himself first points out that you (apparently) can't put the GPL onto data, and so he can't make it open.

When I point out the possibility of it being public domain and notices to users when they submit data that is being placed into the public domain, he liked the idea.

That clearly shows the issue had not previously been resolved, but is now on the way to being resolved.

To rjamorim:

Posted by rjamorim,



I believe self examination would be a good place for you to begin before telling someone else to grow up.

To Cey, my previous comment about being paranoid was unnecessary. I apologize. I believe the concerns you and rjamorim have stated are well founded and I would like to see spoon resolve them as well. I am perhaps a bit overly trusting since I think so highly of the author of EAC. My thinking is, if he trusts Accuraterip enough to spend the time putting in support for it, I trust it too.

Edit: spelling

Oh, quit your whining. You were obviously on the wrong here, stop trying to act like I'm in fault for not replying to your crazy accusation throwing with delicate words.

I started using AccurateRip when it was first added to a beta release of dbPowerAMP last year. I'll give it another try now that there are updates to its database.

Great information here (aside from ddrawley's need for Midol at the moment ).

I remember having a problem uploading a CD to the AR offsets db when I had used it before. I believe spoon fixed that back then, though. The license issues were something I was not aware of though.

lol. You are good at finding all kinds of crazy connotations in his posts. I don't see him saying you abuse him in that post. He's actually thanking you for your charming behaviour.



Well, this thread of discussion should actually be moved to the dust bin, so I better report my own post to the moderators...