All:

I am realizing with my new setup that I have tons of recordings that are just TOO LOUD. It really sucks, and I have started using the "Normalization" option on EAC when I rip them. It doesn't really help that much.

I am using a Lynx L22 for playback at +4db. Even at -10db, it still clips on these loud discs. It's very irritating, and seems to take away any dynamics that might have been there. I started using "Soft Clipping" on Foobar2K, and it's okay, but doesn't solve the problem.

I am running this into a nice 2 channel rig, and I can hear it clipping, and compressing a lot on a lot of discs. This wasn't a problem with my old tube DAC/transport combo, but it wasn't nearly as revealing, and had much lower output.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

B

Replay Gain.

To learn about ReplayGain read about it here.

You use Foobar 2000 so you can apply ReplayGain using it.

Don't use Foobar 2000 and want to use ReplayGain:
* For MP3's download MP3Gain.
* For OGG's search for VorbisGain to find a suitable download site.
* For MPC's download ReplayGain.

ReplayGain solves the clipping and the volume differences, but what is destroyed (dynamics) it cannot restore...

Thanks guys. . .

I read all through the ReplayGain FAQ, and the rest of the site. Looks like it's pretty good, and I know Foo2K is compatible. But. . . How is it used? If I have a CD, and I want to use ReplayGain, do I need to rip it again? Do I put it through some sort of program to tag it?

Thanks again, and please pardon my noobness.

B

No offence to the foobar guys, but the foobar2000
GUI is terrible. To tag your files with replaygain values
you need to right-click on them. You should see a
replaygain menu.

What replaygain does then is scan the file to calculate how
"loud" it is, and adds the tag to the file. Wav files can't be
tagged IIRC (although it's technically feasible using RIFF metadata).

I'm on linux now so I don't follow foobar developments.

EDIT: fixed some typos

I think Foobar's GUI is quite good actually. Sure it doesn't have all the bells and whistles like Winamp's GUI but who cares? What matters is the functionality in the program and Foobar has a rediculous amount of functionality. Almost everything you would want to do with digital audio files is included in Foobar (just a 2MB download with the special installer so it's also rediculously small). And highlighting all files in a playlist, right-clicking, going to ReplayGain, and clicking on Scan as multiple albums isn't that hard to do is it?

I would recommend using Foobar's replaygain on MP3 files compared to using MP3Gain. MP3Gain will guarantee that all players will playback the MP3 at the replaygained volume as MP3Gain modifies the actual audio data of the MP3. However, Foobar just writes the replaygain info to the MP3's ID3v2/APEv2 tag. I primarily use Foobar and Winamp as players and both provide support for replaygain in tags for MP3. You just need this plugin for Winamp.

As far as I know Replay Gain isn't supported on portables, so there's a good reason for MP3Gain

what i do is use mp3gain to apply max no clip gain. And then use FB2K to take it down to 89 db. The reason I use max no clip gain in mp3gain is so if i go back and make a compilation cd.

Yes for portables MP3Gain has its purpose I guess. I just like the metadata form of replaygain rather than modifying the actual audio data. Use whichever works for you

Well that doesn't work at all for me. Everything I have on my disk is wav.

>>What do you all do with LOUD discs?<<

I delete everything that makes my ears hurt... Hopefully the industry will come to their senses in some 5-10 years and rerelease properly mastered versions.

You could use FLAC which will losslessly compress your WAV files and give you tag and replaygain support.

MP3Gain doesn't modify the mp3 by default anymore. It now by default stores the changes in an APEv2 tag. To modify the mp3 as it was done in older versions the undo feature (storing of a tag) has to be disabled.

You can always use wavegain for wav-files.

It will alter the actual audio though, so the resulting wav will be at a somewhat lower resolution, noise has been added.
It is questionable if it hearable.
But most soundcards are 16-bit anyway, so it doesn't really matter to them if the music is altered before playback or during playback.

But it's a definetly better alternative to use FLAC for storing files losslessly and for replaygain.
You will not loose any audiodata, and if you get a 24-bit soundcard it 'can' sound better when playing replaygained FLACs than wavegained waves.


It's also possible to transfer replaygained FLAC -> aac (mp4) in 24-bit res. using dBPowerAmp.
This is good, cause there isn't any Replaygain foraac/mp4.

Unless you use foobar .

Using 24-bit has no advantages really. It may theoretically "sound" better but I doubt you can hear the difference between a 24-bit sound file to a 16-bit file.

Jepp you are rigth, but only foobar is able to use this replaygain info at playback, at the moment...It will not be replaygained in t.ex. iPod. For most players one need to adjust volume before encoding mp4.



Yeah, but knowing that my FLACs are totally lossless even when replaygained, and knowing that my mp4 are encoded from a replaygained 24bits signal, rather than 16bit, makes me sleep better at night.
But you are right...I can't hear the difference.

(Perhaps it might just be that a 128kbit/s mp4 encoded from a replaygained 16-bit source is of higher quality, than one of 24-bit source, because the encoder will have less information to encode when there is only 16bit (replaygained without dither), and therefore have extra bits to encode the information that is left)

By golly, you're right. Right clicking sure is hard. It makes so much more sense that you use the main menu bar to scan the selection. The disk writer should also be in a menu. No, wait, even better, let's make the disk writer an output device!

First I replaygain, then I listen several times with headphones. If I get fatigued too often then CD will end up in the used bin or the files sent to recycle bin - It doesn't even matter how good the music is.

True.

Hmh, there actually would be a sollution for your replaygain problem.

I am not sure wether you want all your actual cd's to be normalized, or just normalization for playback within a pc player.

In case you want the second using either FLAC or Monkey's Audio as Loke already said is probably the best sollution.

In case you don't want to do that, you could scan your wav files with FB2K and make sure the database is enabled. If I am not entirely wrong, FB2K will then write the replaygain values to its database. Otherwise there is also an experimental feature to write tags to wav files. In case you keep those files on your pc for long term storage that would be the sensible way to go anyway. It will simply save a lot of diskspace and offer some other advabtages.

You could then after you did that, burn a copy of the cd with Foobars cd writer component (note that this needs Nero to be installed) and make sure Use ReplayGain is enabled in its preferences (The CD wrtier component preferences not the FB2K preferences . Probably best to keep them both in the same cover then and only use the copy for playback. Off course you can always do this with lossless files (FLAC, Monkeys) as well.

I know that this is quite a lengthy procedure, but the only workaround I can think off if what you want to achieve is the first case.

what do i do with my loud CDs?

http://clans.customer.netspace.net.au/ack/loud_cd.jpg

ok, question:

i am NOT using the inmpg123 winamp input plugin (or whatever it's called) but i replaygained a couple of tracks via mp3gain and they sounded quieter in winamp. then i undid the gain adjustment and they went back to the way they were before.

now, if the ability to undo track gain in mp3gain relies on the storing of the gain adjustment value in an apev2 tag, how come winamp played the file back quietly if i'm using an mp3 input plugin that is not apev2 compatible?

Even the latetest version of mp3gain still actually changes the volume of the mp3. The ape tags only store the gain change information so that you can undo the changes if you needed to. There is also an option to not write these ape tags.

ok, well what worries me about all this is whether those tags are available to other programs. believe it or not, i actually strip my tags completely from time to time (export tags, reformat, restore files from cdr, strip existing tags, and then reimport the tags i saved); does that mean that the replaygain information will go out the window along with genre/comment/etc?

i use 1d3v2 for now, but i'd hate to think that i might lose all my replaygain info if i switch to ape and then pull that. is replaygain stored in a proprietary or secure part of the file, or will tag strippers manage to screw with it as well?

i don't believe this will be possible. the reason? a lot of projects nowadays are too loud by the time they reach mastering. the clipping and squashing are already there. musicians will simply need to re-record everything in order for their music to sound better than it is today (as far as new releases). older recordings that were recorded well can always be made to sound great. new recordings that were recorded like shit can never be made to sound great, not even in 24-bit audio.

as for me, i don't listen to excessively loud CDs. it's just doesn't sound pleasant on my hi-fi, and in worst cases my ears get fatigued quickly.