For a long time we have been streaming Real audio and MP3.
But OGG seems to do better at a lower bitrate.
The results are quite good but not excelent.
It's not true that ogg does the same as MP3 at half the bandwith.

Judge for yourself:

http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteen.pls (mono mp3 at 56k)

http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteenogg.pls (mono ogg at 45k)

I don't know anyone who claims this to be true. Only Fraunhofer and MS claim this for mp3pro and wma. Certainly no vorbis guys!

We are not Microsoft - I don't think anyone has ever made the claim you are refuting.

Ok,

I have to say that OGG is very good at low bandwith.
And it makes the station sound very LOUD!!

You guys did a great job,


Thanks,

Noone closely involved with Vorbis would claim that.

There is however, the following on the Vorbis website:



-q4.99 is VBR approaching 128kbps. LAME with APS should average around 192kbps.

I don't believe this claim, and AFAIK, the only tests that have done so far have indicated this is false.

Of course, there is nothing on that page that even remotely substantiates the claim.

--
GCP

Those claims are often made to ensure that people believe in the new codec.
So they are more willing to use it.
But these claims are not based on good research, it's more of a selling talk.

The question is:

Is ogg better than MP3?

If so,

In what way?

[b]Yes!

(In random order)


Open source. Anybody can download the sourcecode and make their own alterations for their own personal needs

Free for everybody. Gratis, no fees.

No patents. No sudden patent suprises

Relatively better sounding than MP3 at most bitrates if not all.

Better tagging.

Catchier name of container-format

Great logo

Idealistic development

Downsides:

Not videly supported



(Did I forget anything?)

Indeed opensource is a great way of creating software.

But is it possible to make a Java OGG player that is using standard java plugins?
Because if that is possible you have the best compression combined with playability to the largest audience ever. (everyone with a browser that supports standard Java)

I tried some OGG java players but all the players need a special JAva Runtime installed.

Is it possible to make a Java file like with a webcam that is executed from a webserver?
And so you can open player html with a standard browser, and the browser opens the player from de OGG.css on the webserver.

Is that possible?

Thanks,


Herman

From http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/ :

I think he wants an Applet, rather than a Java program.

--
GCP

Exactly,

I want an applet, no normal user is using the Java JRE.
So 98 % of the website users will get an error.
I want a Java Applet that does not need any extra JRE installed.

Like with a webcam applet, thats an applet which runs on every pc.

Is an ogg player applet possible?

Thanks,

Huuu, I think the latest Mozilla installs it for use with all Java stuff.

--
GCP

No normal user uses Mozilla.

Not every normal human beeing is using the latest mozilla.
So thats not an option.

Is it possible to make an applet?
An applet that will work on 99% of ALL THE BROWSERS.


Thanks,

It was the same in all previous versions as well.

But rjamorim was right, not many people use Mozilla

--
GCP

Is it possible to make an applet?
An applet that will work on 99% of ALL THE BROWSERS.


Thanks,

Look at the page JonI posted, I think it includes _exactly_ what you ask for. (Works in IE5.5 by just clicking the link)

(Live Streams in Ogg Vorbis section)

--
GCP

Try this:

http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/player/JOrbis...0/zeilsteen.ogg

--
GCP

Many users will end up with a required plugin install.

Is a more compatible applet possible?

Like this?

http://javaboutique.internet.com/AudioCentric/


Thanks,


Found it allready:

http://www.freedomaudio.com/

Look at my lovely player inside a web popup:

http://www.zeilsteen.nl

WITHOUT THE JAVA RUNTIME shit!!!!

Thanks again

The Ogg stream is now mono at 45k.

http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteenogg.pls

(ogg)

compare it with:

http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteen.pls

(mp3)

Herman

<pedantic>
You're still using a JVM, whether it's the MS one bundled into IE, or the one bundled with Sun's JRE. No way around that.

WinXP users don't get any kind of JVM preinstalled, so they MUST get some kind of runtime/plugin, whether it's Microsoft's or Sun's.
</pedantic>

The ogg java player I use at the moment also works without the runtime installed.
(the java player is not for unix at the moment)

Perhaps this applet needs some "features" included in Microsofts Java VM. Thats Microsofts way to make sure Java is not "too platform-independent" (and to force users to use Windows XYZ).

Does this applet work e.g. with Netscape 4.7x (without Sun's Java Plugin) on Windows?

Could you please check if someone uses a non-Windows-OS and redirect him to a JOrbis applet (those users most likely have a "proper" JRE installed anyway)?

I'm having a problem with playing streams in Winamp 2.80.

After I click on http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteenogg.pls, Winamp opens, my net connection is active for about 30 seconds, and then it all stops :-(

Here's a screen:

[img]6445bd0b4e[/img]

plazz, you using MAD decoder? I've had trouble with this and Ogg streams before..

Yep, I am.

I wouldn't have thought MAD would have anything to do with an OGG stream. I'll try uninstalling it.

Thanks.

It seems it tries to steal every internet stream.

And even if that's not the case, MAD is really bad at playing MP3 streaming. (and since it's quality isn't as much better than nullsoft/FhG decoder as people used to think... )

MAD was the problem alright. I've now changed back to the Nullsoft decoder

Yeah, imagine how long it took before I found out! I was trying to set up an ogg stream of my own, and I kept thinking "Icecast you be damned"
All is forgiven now though

OK...

Installed the new ODDcast RC5 DSP.
In stereo!!! sounds very F##@#@# good!!
Tune in and compare it with the Winamp (mono stream at 56k)

MP3:
http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteen.pls

OGG:
http://zeilsteen.myftp.org/zeilsteenogg.pls




Still that login disconnect problem ?