This article is a fantastic example of why ABX testing is necessary to avoid placebo.
Here
I'm pretty sure the author (and maybe even the designers) truely believes he heard an effect. So sad!
Full Version: "Symphony Power Line Conditioner"
While that Coherent Electron Producing Box of Quantum Resonance Technology certainly looks more than suspicious, line conditioners can and sometimes do improve performance of various componens.
And it's not sad. Shiny pretty things of dubious design have always been the mainstay of high-end audio :)
And it's not sad. Shiny pretty things of dubious design have always been the mainstay of high-end audio :)
Either this is utter nonsense (the part about quatums tells absolutely nothing about anything !), either it was translated several times, and reformulated in such a way that the original meaning is completely lost.
...but being an audiophile and having studied quantum theory, I can't let this one through :
The semiconductor property of silicium is a purely quantic phenomenon. Any transistor, any chip, is a quantic device
!
...but being an audiophile and having studied quantum theory, I can't let this one through :
QUOTE
If one of you out there reading this happens to be a quantum physicist and audiophile, please write a book about how quantum physics and audio relate (or don’t relate).
The semiconductor property of silicium is a purely quantic phenomenon. Any transistor, any chip, is a quantic device
!
QUOTE(atherean @ Apr 18 2004, 02:09 PM)
And it's not sad. Shiny pretty things of dubious design have always been the mainstay of high-end audio
You don't think it's sad that people spend so much time and money on developing useless shit, simply because they fail to understand basic scientific process?
I like the part saying that once you have the device connected, the electrons in all wires of your house will become "coherent". But I doubt that the electrons/wires know where the wire net of the house stops/starts. So I'd assume, since everything is connected, one device should be enough to conver a whole country or even continent with coherent electrons - bad for business. 
I wonder when someone comes up with some big magnet to harmonize the spin of all atomic nuclei of hydrogen in a listening room.
I wonder when someone comes up with some big magnet to harmonize the spin of all atomic nuclei of hydrogen in a listening room.
QUOTE(Jebus @ Apr 19 2004, 12:50 AM)
QUOTE(atherean @ Apr 18 2004, 02:09 PM)
And it's not sad. Shiny pretty things of dubious design have always been the mainstay of high-end audio
You don't think it's sad that people spend so much time and money on developing useless shit, simply because they fail to understand basic scientific process?
If it gives their lifes more meaning in their perception, why not? Other people need to kill others to find a meaning. That's sad.
QUOTE(Jebus @ Apr 18 2004, 05:50 PM)
You don't think it's sad that people spend so much time and money on developing useless shit, simply because they fail to understand basic scientific process?
You must mean because their customers fail to do so? In that case, not at all, it's the natural way of things.
if this device is actually patented, then it shouldn't be.
for a device to recieve a patent it must do something definable, and there must be some kind of schematic that _completely_ describes what the machine is intended to do. this line rings alarm bells for me:
this says to me that the effect is not at all reproducable, and therefore not worthy of a patent. in my opinion if something is not patentable, then it is certainly not worth buying. it is placebo in a box.
it is a box of components. it is a waste of mains power that otherwise could be running some kind of marital aid, which no doubt gives far more pleasure.
for a device to recieve a patent it must do something definable, and there must be some kind of schematic that _completely_ describes what the machine is intended to do. this line rings alarm bells for me:
QUOTE
The components inside the Symphony box would not produce the QRT effect without being "treated" by Quantum Products
this says to me that the effect is not at all reproducable, and therefore not worthy of a patent. in my opinion if something is not patentable, then it is certainly not worth buying. it is placebo in a box.
it is a box of components. it is a waste of mains power that otherwise could be running some kind of marital aid, which no doubt gives far more pleasure.
Richard Feynman must turn in his grave when people use Quantum Electro Dynamics to justify bullsh*t like this. However, I know a lot a comedy writers who would give their left feet to write something this funny.
I think it's time we started selling official Hydrogenaudio Audiophile Ear Conditioning Pills which use "Psychoacoustic Discrete Cosine Transform Analysis" to modify your ear for better listening resolution (up to 48 bits!). Active ingredient: C12H22O11.
QUOTE
it is placebo in a box.
I think it's time we started selling official Hydrogenaudio Audiophile Ear Conditioning Pills which use "Psychoacoustic Discrete Cosine Transform Analysis" to modify your ear for better listening resolution (up to 48 bits!). Active ingredient: C12H22O11.
QUOTE(Jebus @ Apr 18 2004, 01:37 PM)
This article is a fantastic example of why ABX testing is necessary to avoid placebo.
I'm pretty sure the author (and maybe even the designers) truely believes he heard an effect. So sad!
I'm pretty sure the author (and maybe even the designers) truely believes he heard an effect. So sad!
pff, psychologist would have a loong field day here..
Sad is that author most probably indeed heard it, along with believeing. Its a classical example of expectations affecting results of experiment.
And designers, they must be trying out just how stupid people can get. They didn't even bother to wrap it into shiny boxes.. oh well.
QUOTE(cabbagerat @ Apr 19 2004, 02:00 AM)
Richard Feynman must turn in his grave when people use Quantum Electro Dynamics to justify bullsh*t like this. However, I know a lot a comedy writers who would give their left feet to write something this funny.
I think it's time we started selling official Hydrogenaudio Audiophile Ear Conditioning Pills which use "Psychoacoustic Discrete Cosine Transform Analysis" to modify your ear for better listening resolution (up to 48 bits!). Active ingredient: C12H22O11.
QUOTE
it is placebo in a box.
I think it's time we started selling official Hydrogenaudio Audiophile Ear Conditioning Pills which use "Psychoacoustic Discrete Cosine Transform Analysis" to modify your ear for better listening resolution (up to 48 bits!). Active ingredient: C12H22O11.
Cool, we can all take pills when we have an HA convention!
QUOTE
We employ principles of physics and quantum theory to approach the problem of electromagnetic noise. The [QRT] technology utilizes an electromagnetic material processing method to influence the conductive behavior of electrons within electrical conductors. This process neutralizes a fundamental disorder in material structures at the subatomic level by exposing them to a "sustained resonance" of a high degree of order. "Sustained resonance" means that structures vibrate at a frequency natural to them. As a result, the efficiency and performance of the material structures increase and thereby alleviate negative side effects.
In the case of electricity, this "proprietary" technology makes coherent the random, chaotic motion of the electrons. Once made coherent, the electrons remain that way. As a result they do not become subject to random field effects such as radiated or induced EMFs, and can also sustain the flow of information at the quantum level.
In the case of electricity, this "proprietary" technology makes coherent the random, chaotic motion of the electrons. Once made coherent, the electrons remain that way. As a result they do not become subject to random field effects such as radiated or induced EMFs, and can also sustain the flow of information at the quantum level.
Unbelievable! Somebody get these people a copy of McQuarrie immediately.
QUOTE
This should lead to fewer inelastic scattering events for the electrons and thus less emission of helical electromagnetic photons and greater fidelity of the information carried by the electron current.
As opposed to the non electromagnetic photons from (a different spectrum in) Dimension X which invade your house and along with the Martians and the Power Goblins.
Next time I'm in Santa Monica I think I'll pay the manufacturer a visit and give them a basic lesson in physics.
hmm... maybe this isn't the best place to mention that i get cleaner recordings on my sound card if my TV is turned on?
this is repeatable too - i could post a graph that shows this... so let's all go and buy several german TVs and turn them all on... if you can handle the 15625Hz screech.
this is repeatable too - i could post a graph that shows this
... so let's all go and buy several german TVs and turn them all on... if you can handle the 15625Hz screech.
QUOTE(MugFunky @ Apr 20 2004, 08:31 PM)
hmm... maybe this isn't the best place to mention that i get cleaner recordings on my sound card if my TV is turned on?
this is repeatable too - i could post a graph that shows this
this is repeatable too - i could post a graph that shows this
My guess is that this could be psychoacoustic thing (the recording sounds more "open" or something since there's stuff at 15kHz) or the 15kHz interference may linearize your ADC. A similar effect as the bias oscillator on tapes.
QUOTE(MugFunky @ Apr 20 2004, 08:31 PM)
hmm... maybe this isn't the best place to mention that i get cleaner recordings on my sound card if my TV is turned on?
dither
QUOTE
this is repeatable too - i could post a graph that shows this
Please do - it would be interesting to see what effect the TV has. Do yu have one of those newfangled aluminium/plastic computer cases?
Maybe you should try a real (non Super Duper Quantum) line conditioner and see if that helps things when the TV is not on.
QUOTE
or the 15kHz interference may linearize your ADC
this sounds most likely. AFAIK my card has no brickwall filter, and so i get interesting aliasing from the various things happening in my box/house. not sure where it comes from, but it disappears as the TV warms up. instead of a kind of wavey-chirpy ~17k centric flutter, i get a straight TV tone (actually, now i've stopped running my teev through my amp i don't get that anymore either.).
will post a graph in a few mins... it's a real obvious effect, and quite measurable.
[edit]
here we go...
graph
ape file (1.7mb)
what we're seeing here is first few sec without TV, then a small wibbly noise as i turn it on, then there's almost no noise at all until i turn the TV off again.
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