I am in the progress of changing too foobar2000 (or at least trying it out), as you probably know, foobar only supports id3v1 as default (and i have heard it's id3v2-support is buggy and could potenially harm the id3v2-tag), I also am planning to add ape-tags to get replay-gain-info.

What I'm looking for is a tagger/command line, that runs through files, adds a ape-tag to the ones without, then copies id3v2-info in fields not already in use, and preferably copies the id3v2-tracknumber to id3v1 in the same swoop, as many of my files only have id3v2 traknumber.

Any help or suggestion is helpful, even if it only partially solves the problem.

AtW

foobar does this automattically. when you edit a file, foobar will convert all id3v2 to apev2 by default. ape tags arent neccecary for replaygain info by the way. id3v2 can hold this infoo too.

Where did you hear that? In my experience the id3v2 support of foobar is much better than that of most/many of the existing mp3 (tagging) software! Most people having problems with id3v2 tags in foobar don't understand that the problem was/is the software which was used to tag the files IMHO!

Regards,
The Link

Hmm, first of all, my foobar doesn't support id3v2 I think, as I said, I have heard that it's support is bugged, and been advised that I shold not use it.

Second, most of my files doesn't have APE-tags, and thus i have to create them first.

Third: Edit each and every song i foobar is just to inconvinient, i have a lot of songs, it need to be some automated process.

Please let me know if I'm mistaken in any of theese asumptions.

But thanks for the info

AtW

download foo_id3v2.dll I bet you know where to find it, otherwise, google.
download foo_infobox.dll I bet you know where to find it, otherwise, google.

you dont have to edit each file seperately. Select all and do "Show File Info (special) Multiple Items"
then make, edit or delete a bogus tag (like VENUE, or another tag you dont care about) click okay, click update and ALL files will be in apev2 (be aware that this can take quite a while if you have lots of mp3's, removing id3v2 tags takes as long as making them)

This is how I would do it:

1. Download and install foobar2000 + foo_id3v2

2. Set Playback -> Input -> Standard inputs -> MP3 Tag Writing to your personal preference.

3. Load all the songs you want to retag into fb2k.

4. Select them all, enter the context menu and execute Database -> Rewrite File tags from database. This will probably take some time, but you'll end up with perfectly retagged files.

In my personal experience foo_id3v2 is one of the most solid id3v2 implementations around and I'd really like to know who told you that it is buggy or unreliable.

heh, that would be the official way i suppose

Ok, thanks a lot guys, a final question:

If i select a file and choose propertes, i see the metadata, but which metadata is this? what if id3v1, v2 and ape-tags have different info? And how do i know which type of tags are present? I assume if I want to add additional fields as lameversion and qualitysetting, I just select the songs and add:

QUALITY = APX
LAMEV = 3.90.2
RIPPER = ExactAudioCopy v0.9b4 (Secure Mode)

Or is there some way to automaticly detect thees things (stored in some header by lame or something to that effect)

There was a few friends of mine who complained about the id3v2-support (people who are concerned with quality, and should know what they talk about, but they might have talked about a older version or something).

AtW

What your friends complained about was probably that foobar has add ape2+id3v1 (strip id3v2) as default. By following dev0's advices point 1 & 2 above you can set the tagging to anything you like, e.g. id3v1+id3v2 if that's what you want. Id3v2 support on foobar (with kode54's plug) are as solid and reliable as possible with the id3v2 format. You can use it as safely as any other tageditor. Personally I would recommend default ape2+id3v1, but that's me...

You can edit tags in foobar many ways; via Properties, Masstagger, or as .zolder recommended, foo_infobox.

EDIT: Typo.

Ok, this doesn't work properly, because I can only choose ape+id3v1 or 1d3v2 and id3v1.

I want to keep all three tags, but if I choose ape+id3v1 it deletes the v2 tag.

AtW

If you need all three tags, it might be easy to tag your files with ID3V2 using foobar2000, then use Tag from the command line to copy the ID3V2 tags to ID3V1 and APEV2. I haven't used Tag in ages (since getting foobar2000 ) but it's powerful and relatively easy to use. I'm sure someone here could do the command line pretty easily.

foo_id3v2 retains all text metadata, so there is no reason to use both ID3v2 and APEv2.

Do you really need both ID3v2 and APEv2 tags? I am currently using Foobar 2000 with ID3v1 and ID3v2, and i have no problems at all (i might switch to APEv2 tags later though).

In Foobar 2000 v0.7.7 the ID3v2 component didn't work correctly on some special characters. I am from Norway, and i think you are too .
In version 0.7.7 the ID3v2 component couldn't write our national characters Æ, Ø and Å. "Dødheimsgard", would become "D?dheimsgard". Could this be the problem you are referring to? Anyway, it is not a problem anymore. Download the special version of Foobar v0.8.2. Then the ID3v2 component is already installed, and it is working fine.

ape2 will take æøåÆØÅ with no problem. I think id3v2 should work fine too....

Skål! (Cheers!)

Yes, I really need both id3v2 and APE (don't ask me why), yes I am from norway, how did you know?

Gowerpolis: using tag could an option, but i haven't figured out how to copy from other tagtypes in that prog, and if there is an "foobar-solution" that would work, it would be easier, as I can easily see from my playlists which files that needs fixing, and just marking the and fixing them would be much easier.

AtW

i would really propose you to explain why you need id3v2 AND apev2.
I cannot think of a single reason why one would need both with foobar.

Using apev2 instead of id3v2 mostly makes sense because the id3v2 patchwork-standard is problematic and slow. So, its not about "using apev2" - its about "getting rid of id3v2". Using both archieves nothing, because you still have to deal with id3v2.
However, maybe i'm missing something and there is an advantage when using both - but i really cannot think of any benefit.

- Lyx

id3v2 isn't hurting me, or the playback, the reasons for using both are because of other people playing the files, not because i need to personally, therefore I need all three, as having all three has no drawbacks, dealing with id3v2 is not problematic as an end-user.

Not to be rude, but you guys can't change my mind on this, so It's no use trying to convince me, so any tips on a good tool to manipulate all three are welcome.

AtW

uh, i don't know of any application which does support apev2 mp3-tags but not id3v2 mp3-tags. So if id3v2 is no problem for you, then i dont understand the need for apev2. But thats your choice *shrugs*

- Lyx

edit: oh, btw: if you find a way to write all three, then you cannot use those files with foobar afterwards, because whenever you do something to the tags with foobar, even if its just adding replaygain info, then foobar will remove the third tag-type completely again. So, using these "3-tag"-files with foobar has a high risk of foobar automatically removing one of them again.
Why does foobar do this? Because it doesn't make any sence to have id3v2 AND apev2.

Yeah I have noticed that, that really is the problem, as all the id3v2-tags usually have all the correct info, I personally thinks it pretty stupid that you can't turn this option off (at least not to my knowlengde)

AtW

actually, foobar doesn't let you do it, because its stupid thing to write all three.

So, in this case, the point is: foobar doesn't let you do something stupid and automatically "corrects" it.

You, see this as a disadvantage - others may see it as a "feature".

- Lyx

Why do you want Apev2 tags, if it's not about loosing ID3v2 tags?

Not to get in to a huge discussion over this, but I frankly can't see any disadvantages of having all three (exept a very small speed decrease while writing, and a few bytes added space).

My excact point is that someone sees it as an disadvantage, and other as a feuture, somthing that can be viewed both ways usually is an option the user can choose, but for some reason it is not in this case.

AtW

I want them, so i can add replaygain-info.

AtW

like i said in my very first reply: ape tags arent neccecary for replaygain info. id3v2 can hold this info too.

okay, simple summary:

everything you can do with apev2 in foobar, you can also do with id3v2. So you do NOT gain any nice features in foobar by using ape-tags.

The only reason to use ape-tags is because id3v2 charset-standards are a mess and can lead to problems with international characters when sharing the same file with different people worldwide. The other thing is that id3v2 tags are written at the beginning of the file, so large tag-additions can mean that the entire file has to be rewritten just to add some tags.
To "replace" id3v2 with a different tag-system which has the same features as id3v2 but not its downsides, one can use ape-tags to get rid of id3v2.

Thus, there are two routes:
1. ID3v2 + ID3v1 for total compatibility (exactly that what you want to have according to your posts)
2. APEv2 + ID3v1 as a replacement for id3v2's charset-mess and slow tag-writing.


But by using all three tags, you keep the disadvantages of id3v2 and gain nothing, because any player which supports ape-tags also supports id3v2, so you can as well not use ape-tags.

Basically, using all three tag-systems in mp3's just adds another tag-type and archives nothing.
- Lyx

Hmm, I have been told that replay-gain info stored in id3v2-tags doesn't behave properly, can you confirm that this is not the case?

AtW

I tried to find out more of what people think is the problem with id3v2-support in foobar, and got this info:

"Remove/rename the foo_id3v2.dll in the /components directory of your foobar install folder. This dll has been known to screw up id3v2 tags when adding ReplayGain info."

Any comments on this claim? I'm getting very confused here, as I get different info all the time...

AtW

From who are you getting this information?
Why aren't you asking for proof?

Advise: Believe first hand information from the author of the PlugIn and respected members of this community first.

I'm in the prosess of getting more info, it might take some time . Although my initial conclusion is that it should be okay, I still have heard the opposite from people who should be knowing what they talk about, the info might be wrong or outdated, but I want to be 99% sure before i start mass-editing tags, at this point I'm only at 90%.

Another potenial upside of having ape-tags is that I foobar seemingly displays the id3v1-info as default in the playlist (as opposed to v2), I tried to check the options and config, but I wasn't able to "fix" it, but it might just be me whos stupid .

AtW

if the above claim was ever true, then it is obsolete for a long time now.

The information from kode (the id3v2-plugin author) and other people who posted in this thread is correct.

- Lyx

edit: oh, and by removing the above DLL, you remove id3v2 support completely - and fb2k would possibly kill all id3v2-tags alltogether - great way of fixing a claimed "bug which screws up id3v2" - fix it by removing id3v2-tags alltogether..... really, great advice.....

Wouldn't you have too hook the "remove id3v2-while updating"-box to do that?according to the options, only other supported tags will be automatically stripped.

AtW

true, my fault. Still, removing id3v2 support completely to fix a problem with id3v2 seems like a strange approach.

Anyways, if that problem ever existed, then it isn't there any longer for a long time now.

Just choose ID3v1 + ID3v2, and don't care - everything will be fine.

Except of the possible charset-problems with foreign characters. But thats a problem of id3v2 itself, not a problem of foobar - you would get this charset-mess with any other player too -except of that foobar lets YOU decide to write in the system-codepage or unicode - while other players like winamp and many taggers & rippers break the id3v2 standard and always use the system-codepage(by the id3v2 standard unicode should always be used - but most other apps just dont care about that).

Ok, I use foreign charachters myself, but haven't experienced any problems, so I have two questions left.

1. What is the upside of using system-codepage (I would guess other programs use it for a reason)

2. How can i get the foobar-playlist to show the v2-info insted of v1-info?

Don't get my nagging and questioning wrong, I really apriciate det help from you guys, It's just that Im rarly happy with just one answer without further explination, because to be frank, people are mistaken a lot.

So thank you for all the help

AtW

why don't you test with a couple of files before mass retagging all files and see if there's a combination of tags that does everything you want?

My primary concern in this matter was if the id3v2-tags became borken in some cases, testing on a few albums might get good results, but there could still be a problem.

AtW

I can't find the thread right now, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that fb2k will (on filetypes which this is relevant for, like mp3, oviously not e.g. ogg vorbis, which uses vorbiscomments) search first for ape2 tags, then for id3v2 (if foo_id3v2 are installed, obviously) and THEN for id3v1 (in that order).... Also it will only display tags from the first relevant format it finds (e.g. if you write id3v2+id3v1 both are written, but only content of id3v2 will be displayed by fb2k, and content of id3v1 ignored). In order to get display of the actual content of each of the different tagtypes on a file, if there are more than one, one will need some other software.

I cannot confirm this now, though, but maybe someone more informed will?

on Frontah's homepage, it says that


Is this correct? Foobar2000 seems to do this by default

don't worry about that
it's like dev0 said:

I have not yet had any problems with fb2k's implementation of this, but some other software don't do it as nice. I searched for some info, and it seems the point is that the id3v1 tag must be tagged on at the very end of the file, after the ape2 tag, otherwise progs that don't see the ape2 tag won't see the id3v1 tag either.... Progs that do read ape2 tags from mp3 files (not many....) seems too find it nontheless.... I guess this is why the frontah author has some reservations (?)

If I don't misunderstand you, this is not the case for my version (0.82), it's pretty easy to check, just write different info in the v2 and the v1, in my case, it always shows v1-info.

AtW

The homepage is kind of outdated; both Frontah and foobar2000 can use both ID3v1 and APEv2. ID3v1 must always be at the very end of the file.

However; foobar2000 will only read/display the first valid tag it founds, just as Mr_Rabid_Teddybear said.

I just tested on a mp3file. Kept the actual info in id3v2. Made totally different and pure nonsenseinfo in id3v1. Sorry, but my fb2k only returns the real (id3v2) info from that file.... so my result are different from yours.



I'm using the latest fb2k install from here: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~cse/html/foobar.html
which includes the latest foo_id3v2.dll from here: http://www.cqasys.com/projects/kode54/index.php

Hmm, that does not seem to be the case in my situation, try it yourself, for example, if you only put tracknumbers in the v2-tag, and not in v1, in my case, it will show 00 as the tracknumber on all tracks.

AtW

Maybe you could show us one of your files?

OK. Just uploaded my testfile here.
The id3test.zip contains 2 files:
id3test.mp3: An mp3file with it's correct information in id3v2 tag, completely different nonsenseinfo in id3v1 tag.
id3test.png: Screenshot of Winamps in_mp3 tag infobox, showing both the id3v1 and the 1d3v2 taginfo on the file id3test.mp3.

fb2k, as I said, only show the id3v2 part of the info at my place.

Just for tagging I personally wouldn´t use foobar2000. Better choice (in my eyes): Mp3tag. It´s a freeware-tagger and has the big advantage, that you always see what you are doing (foobar doesn´t). But remember: If you want to use this program first generate the APE-v2-fields of your MP3´s and then gain them. Otherwise the gaining-info will be lost.

Why that?
It shouldn't be neccessary if the program implements the APEv2 standard properly.

The reason, if would guess, is laziness of the programmers. To write ID3v2 tags in unicode, the application (player, tagger, ripper, whatever) needs to support unicode. So, if the author is too lazy to make his app support unicode then he just writes in the system codepage and can say "hey, even winamp and many other apps do it, so it cannot be bad, can it?"

At least with winamp thats the case: it has never supported unicode and a good part of the application would need to be rewritten to make it unicode compatible. However, at least some winamp mods (dont know about the devs) think that unicode is only for "those dodgy foreigners" who "should use a proper language instead". So why implement proper unicode support?
I'm not sure, but i "think" i remember that newer winamp versions partially support unicode-TAGS by doing ugly hacks(notice that i wrote tags, not unicode in general - the player itself still doesn't support unicode).

- Lyx

edit: basically, your choice is like this:
- either write in system-codepage - but then users from other countries may have difficulties to read international-characters(i.e. write a tag in russian language with russian codepage.... then give the file someone from japan who is using a japanese codepage)
- or, use unicode to avoid the above problem - but then you may run into problems with other applications which dont properly support the ID3v2 standard(read: most apps).

Mp3tag doesn't throw ReplayGain fields away if you edit the APEv2 Tag.

R.A.F. is refering to the copy tags feature, which copies an ID3v2 Tag to an APEv2 Tag by replacing all existing APEv2 tag fields with the fields included in the ID3v2 Tag.

~ Florian

Ok, I played around abit, and the problem seems only to be there when i had database enabled, if i turned it off, it used the v2-tags, that might be because i didn't include v2-support on the first install, the database-function seems to be a good thing, as it takes a very long time to open huge playlists if it's off.

AtW