i'm just wonderring if anyone else out there has done this or knows how to get it started. i would like to try my hand at becoming a "remixer" like say paul oakenfold. i took some electives out at school on using cooleditpro and i really enjoyed playing around with multitrack sessions.

what i'm wonderring is if i want to contact a record company to inquire about making a remix, how do i go about starting the conversation. i'd like to get the layered premixes for a song, but i seriously doubt a record company would hand something like that over without you putting up some serious collateral, considerring the way there going after piracy.

i wanna do this legit ... i own the albums that have songs on it that i'd like to play around with. i'm just a little wary of investing time in a formal letter, meeting with the labels themselves, or sitting on the phone for a day and a half if i'm never gonna get anywhere.

any thoughts/questions/advice/rants ... post 'em please!

topic moved to general audio.

To be honest man, you won't get started. People only want remixes so they can have another famous name on the CD.

What you can try though, is start going to local studios and asking them about remixing. I do mean ACTUALLY going round, chapping on doors and shaking hands. CV, E-mails and phone calles don't mean shit in audio.

Also, if you do get the multitracks, which aren't that difficult to get a copy of, you need to remember that there is probibaly about 25 other guys out there with them, remixing it too. A record company will usually give out multi tracks to many people at a time and simply use the best one. I've seen people waste weeks and weeks of there life on this. You need to remember the people you will be competing against will be pro's. People who make a living off this. So don't be expecting to throw some .wavs into acid/cool edit and think that re-sequencing them will do.

Last tip, get Pro Tools, learn Pro Tools, and use Pro Tools day and night. Studios use nothing but Pro Tools now so you need to know what you're talking about.

Anyhoo, remixes kill music - produce something original. Remixing something only limits you to what you can achieve.

Tony

I don't really have anything to say about how to get into remixing, but as a musician I have to agree with Funkstar. It is much more satisfying to create your own original music than to play around with someone else's. And it's much more fun for a music fan to listen to new music than it is to listen to an existing song re-hashed. Ever hear about the "local cover band scene"? Didn't think so. People want to hear original music.

As good of an idea as it is to learn ProTools, there are plenty of studios out there using other software- Logic, Nuendo, I even was in a studio that was still using MasterTracks.

It's not as much about the software you use as it is about what you do with it. Remember, Trent Reznor did all of Pretty Hate Machine on a MasterTracks workstation. Geddy Lee's solo record and Rush's Vapor Trails (mastering excluded) were both recorded using Logic.

sorry in advance if this is a silly question - how do audition & cubase compare to pro tools?

Cubase is a "decent" competitor, CEP doesn't compare.

I know this is OT, but I'll have to disagree. A skillfully done remix doesn't just rehash a song, but turns it into something new. I often find that I end up liking the remix much more than the original version. In fact, there are quite a few songs where I hated the original, but loved the remix.

Rob

I'll probably get a smack for saying this, but, playing someone elses records is not being an artist.

In addition to Tony`s reply, you can get you some instrumental & vocal tracks,
and do a promo. Now a days they have skipped that part of releasing these mixes,
these releases was in there time oriented towards the DJ scene. likely they stopped
becouse the copyright laws. Like Tony says, CV. etc. don`t mean shit in the
audioworld, you just need to prove yourself. Beside this, you also can do:
a. send a promo to a musical mag. likely nothing is going to happend,
but maybe someone is picking up on it.
b. Get in touch with a "indie." label, you have better luck there then with a major one.
c. start (maybe you is one.) DJing, do some experimental stuff, then within time
invite someone from the "game" to listen to you.

It's my personal experience that 99.9% of remixes suck.

Who's said anything about being an artist? People remix to get money.

Remixing, if done properly, is not "playing someone elses records". A good remix can be an excellent and original work or art in its own right.

*smack, smack, smack!*

A great example is "No Protection", the Mad Professor's remix of Massive Attack's "Protection". A work of sheer genius.

However, just as there is lots of crap original music, there are even more crap remixes.

Edit: added a few smacks.

*smack* - but seriously, how is producing a remix playing someone else's record? that is a djs job


*smack* not sure what kind of tunes you listen to poisondan, but there's plenty of quality remixes about from quality producers. infact, with the amount of sampling going on in almost all modern genres i'd say the line between an original work and a remix isn't all that thick anymore - how many "original tunes" are there that sample the same break as used in hundreds of other works? (think amen brother or funky drummer)

besides, a lot of remixes are done to get tunes into the clubs. take the recent kelis tune (trick me) for example - like many other tunes it's been remixed for different tempos so that it can be played with different genres - basement jaxx for the housey crowd, adam freeland for the breaks and artificial intelligence for dnb - this gets the music to people who wouldn't normally be in the right place to hear it

sometimes a remix proves so popular that you hardly ever hear the original! rennie pilgrems mix of emit / collect is a good example. and finally there are those rare remixes that change a tune so completely and so brilliantly they stand up as a tune in their own right

if you want to hear some good remixes check out 4 heros excellent remix album or the ninja tune zen remix retrospective compilation - tosca's different tastes of honey is quite interesting though not all that recommendable as an album

rant over

Just think about William Orbit's remix of Electrical Storm (by U2)...I think remix could be an art when it's well done.

Okay, it's time to get smacked myself. I am saying this as a semi-professional musician here, but "modern genres" suck. Especially the notion of a DJ as a musician, yeah right. Let me see a DJ try and play along with ANYTHING but hip-hop or that nu-metal junk, especially just jamming with no foreplanning.

Sampling is a particularly abhorrent practice to me. With the raw potential available for creating completely new music and sounds, you have to rip off somebody else? I'm typing this as I'm waiting to go to a practice for a group I play with, where just about every practice we will improvise a new song... Then usually never play it again, because it's so easy to just jam up a new one! Even if a song is purely formulaic, or a blues jam in E, at least the end product is still somewhat original. A sampled song doesn't even pretend to be original.

Okay, I'm ready to be smacked.

*Smack

I agree.

*smack*


the first sentence i disagree with wholeheartedly, the second i agree with wholeheartedly; however, there's a big difference between a dj and producer/musician! as far as jamming goes, why would you expect any dj to be able to jam with you? most dj's know how to count to 8 (the good ones 32!) and don't need much more talent than an average ear. on the other hand i know a few dj's who are trained musicians who can jam comfortably with a decent jazz band. most dj's i know don't claim to play any instrument, know any theory or be an "artist" of any kind, they just love the tunes and love to play them to people around the world - what on earth could be wrong with that? and more to the point, what on earth does any of this have to do with remixing?


bit harsh i rekon - i think the majority would be surprised at just how much music they listen to contains samples. be they from popular songs or sample cds a great many very well respected artists will use sampled beats, edit and twist them and distort them into their own. if you are going to do this then what is the point in re-recording a clean kick to mash up if someone else has already done it on the same set? what is the point in recoding a forum from scratch if there is a free, open source one available?

lets not turn this into an anti dj crusade. most dj's play records and would not claim to be musicians. some musicians understandably, also enjoy playing records! perhaps the real question here is whether electronic musicians, who play no instruments (except maybe keyboard) are true musicians? i won't answer the question now, but i will say that some of my best weekends have been spent with sampled beats. as long as the music is good, be it remixed, sampled, backwards or broken - who cares? a kiddie once said to me "i don't want to be a producer, i don't want to play guitar, i don't want to be a dj, i just want to be a raver" - no matter what kinds of music you listen to that is surely sound advice

Huh . . . Around here in San Francisco, there are quite a few extremely popular cover bands. Heavy metal, eighties, 70's, funk, punk, Neil Diamond, Beatles--you name it.

Actually, before remixing was so easily facilitated by technology, a lot of early house djs used to create "remixes" by jamming along live (on keyboards and other instruments) with the records they played.

Originality is over-rated...if there even is such a thing in music anymore. I'll choose a good remix of a song I like over a half-baked, self-indulgent original any day.

Rob

Sgreen: I meant the kinds of DJs who accompany musical groups like you hear in hip-hop and some nu-metal like Incubus and Slipknot. As a musical instrument, the turntable is extremely limited and does not lend itself to a wide variety of music or improvization.

As for the point about house DJs jamming along on keyboards or other instruments, you just said it yourself. Other instruments, and along with known music. I would be extremely suprised (and, I'll admit, impressed) if someone could take their turntable and records into a completely unknown musical situation (especially outside of hip-hop or nu-metal, I realize that much of grassroots hip-hop is improvizational) and produce a decent improvization. Even more impressed if they didn't know what was on the records beforehand.



Now that is apples to oranges. I could easily say that I would prefer a well-done original over a half-baked remix. The more appropriate comparison would be between a well-done remix and an equally well-done original.

As for whether there is any originality in music anymore, just open your ears. Most bars and clubs have a stage and a sound system and book local bands. Just go to one of those bars on a Friday or Saturday night and prepare to be blown away. There is an amazing amount of talent right in your hometown playing right under your nose. Out of a lineup of three bands, at least one will be at least decent, bare minimum, and usually you'll find that two out of three are killer and the third is still pretty good. The biggest point is that since they're not trying to appeal to the cliche-expecting masses, they're willing to try more, and the result is more original and interesting music. You can sometimes get a better musical experience with your $3-10 cover charge than you might get from a $60 concert ticket. Just give it a go, support your local music scene.

My ears are open...that's why I don't go to live shows anymore. I used to go to lots of them, but my taste in music has changed. I just don't find standing around in a bar or club listening to four guys banging around or improvising with guitars and drums very interesting or original anymore. In fact, I find it to be pretty tedious. For whatever reasons, I currently find electronic and dj-oriented music more interesting and original.



Oh good. It's the old "we're not trying to appeal to the masses, so our music is better and more interesting" cliche. The anti-cliche cliche is the biggest cliche of them all.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was basically, I don't care if a piece of music is a remix of another song or an original song. If I like it, I like it. That's the whole point of listening to music, isn't it? To enjoy it? I find the whole attitude that because someone chooses not to (or maybe doesn't have the same talent as you to) create music that fits your notion of what it means to be original and interesting, so it is somehow less "valid", to be just a little cliched.

Rob

Listening to: 'Rie Y Llora (D' Motion Brothers Azuca' Forever Mix)' from 'Promo Only (2003-11 Mainstream)' by 'Celia Cruz' on Media Center 10

wow ... i let this thread go for a day or so and it really took off. i wasn't expecting that at all.

anyways thanks for the tips. i was thinking that record companies held onto premixes with iron grips.

and yes i will be competing with people much better than i, but i like what i've experienced so far and want to have more fun with it.

EDIT: i must say though, that dj kilmore (incubus' dj) does make the turntables an instrument, especially on morning view. that's not quite what i have in mind, though.

I'll agree with you that the music does sound quite a bit more original, the electronic medium is literally limitless, but I find that I miss the human touch of someone playing a live instrument. It's the whole musician thing. When making electronic music, the composer has to pay attention to dynamics and note placement on an individual note basis and think about things that a live musician can simply "feel." I've never heard electronic drums with the same feel a human sitting at a kit can put into them.

I'm lucky enough to live around Minneapolis where there is an amazing live music scene. Perhaps it's something that doesn't exist elsewhere, but we have a LOT of good bands, and people are saying we could end up like Seattle in the early 90s.



I think Morning View was the first album he played on with them. He does do some fun effects, but it's always struck me as just trying to fit something in so he didn't look silly standing there doing nothing on stage. Doesn't mesh quite perfectly.

EDIT: That said, Battlestar Scralachtica, on Make Yourself, is an awesome tune, but falls more under the hip-hop category. The rest of the album sounds a bit more nu-metal, see point #1.

i was having this exact conversation last week. i agree with your point completely, but on the other hand electronic instruments empower ANYONE with a basic understanding of music to compose songs that include any instrument you can imagine and many more you can't. of course there's also nothing to stop you using both live and electronic instruments together. this technology has opened many avenues and opportunities to everyone for a very small cost. it has created many new sounds and genres and changed the way we will look at music forever

however, the "human touch" as you put it has been completely lost in much modern electronic music. some of the reason for this i feel is preference - it is worth remembering that a lot of the electronic music that is now popular is based on a sound developed in clubs and warehouses by and for people in quite a unique state of consciousness

this is all very off topic, but imo fascinating

I think the best way to start remixing is to approach unsigned artists first, and build some experience from there.

I think the concept of the 'human touch' is a difficult one also. For my own material, which would be classed as electronic, it is important to me to retain a more organic feel, and I can achieve this by recording "takes" rather than any further editing. In this sense, this is no different to playing a guitar, bass etc.

Maybe this thread should move to Music Discussion now. But before it does....

The thing about "human touch" is that not all humans are touched equally. If you're talking about a Richard Thompson show, I'm there. If you're talking about the legions of barely talented "singer/songwriters" strumming the same six chords behind a nothing melody and lyrics that wouldn't rate a C- in a high school writing course--well, give me the Mad Professor's No Protection any day.