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davince
Greetings.
I'm a new in audio signal processing, and I have just gotten some new information of all kinds of audio formats.

1.AAC is a lossy compression, isn't it?The quality can't be better than FLAC, can it?
Is it better than mp3s or ogg vorbis?
What's the difference between AAC and AC3?

2.I have seen the book list previously.
the book list:http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7645&hl=books
Just like I said, I am a new, and actually, I know nothing in audio formats, so I'm searching for a book which is suitable for me: a full formats guide for new.
I am in Taiwan, and there aren't many computer English books here; don't even mention to audio-related books.
Due to this, would you tell me which book is suitable for me needs?

I hope my English is still readable, and wasn't causing you problems.
krmathis
QUOTE(davince @ Jun 7 2004, 09:13 AM)
AAC is a lossy compression, isn't it?
Yes it is.
QUOTE
The quality can't be better than FLAC, can it?
No, the quality from a lossy codec can not be equal or better than a lossless codec if its encoded from the same source.
QUOTE
Is it better than mp3s or ogg vorbis?
The Multiformat 128kbps public Listening Test ranks AAC files encoded with iTunes as #3. Behind Vorbis aoTuV and MusePack, but in front of Lame.
Be aware that this might not be the same at other bitrates. Also remember that there are other encoders for MP3 and AAC out there, that might perform differently.
QUOTE
What's the difference between AAC and AC3?
In short terms AAC is a codec for stereo signal, when AC3 is 5 channel (Dolby Digital 5.1). They are both lossy codecs though.
QUOTE
I hope my English is still readable, and wasn't causing you problems.
No problems! tongue.gif
Gabriel
QUOTE
In short terms AAC is a codec for stereo signal, when AC3 is 5 channel (Dolby Digital 5.1).

AAC can perfectly handle 5.1
kjoonlee
QUOTE(Gabriel @ Jun 7 2004, 05:15 PM)
QUOTE
In short terms AAC is a codec for stereo signal, when AC3 is 5 channel (Dolby Digital 5.1).

AAC can perfectly handle 5.1

AC-3 can perfectly handle stereo as well. smile.gif
krmathis
@Gabriel & kjoonlee. Ooops, I did not know that. blush.gif
kwanbis
QUOTE(solaris @ Jun 7 2004, 07:35 AM)
The Multiformat 128kbps public Listening Test ranks AAC files encoded with iTunes as #3. Behind Vorbis aoTuV and MusePack, but in front of Lame.

actually, itunes is tied at number 2 with lame, and MPC/outuv(vorbis) are at #1.
kalmark
QUOTE(davince @ Jun 7 2004, 09:13 AM)
What's the difference between AAC and AC3?

They are 2 different lossy audio codecs.
(This was not mentioned by the others)
Garf
QUOTE(solaris @ Jun 7 2004, 09:35 AM)
No, the quality from a lossy codec can not be equal or better than a lossless codec if its encoded from the same source

I'm nitpicking, but it certainly can be equal...
krmathis
QUOTE(Garf @ Jun 7 2004, 04:02 PM)
QUOTE(solaris @ Jun 7 2004, 09:35 AM)
No, the quality from a lossy codec can not be equal or better than a lossless codec if its encoded from the same source

I'm nitpicking, but it certainly can be equal...

Then we have different meanings of quality loss!
It is not called lossy vs. lossless for a random reason, right?

Of cource there are cases where you dont hear any difference, but that does not mean its no quality loss!? blink.gif
If you code music and lose some data, meaning that it can not be decoded to its original state, I would say it got a quality loss!
You mean differently I guess?
Gabriel
QUOTE
Then we have different meanings of quality loss!

Garf is just nitpicking:
For some specific signals, the result of lossy and lossless encoders can be equal. Silence is an obvious example...
davince
Thanks for your replys about AAC and AC3.

But I still have a problem here:books for a new.

Actually, I don't know what book is suitable for me as a new.
I should study acoustics first or direct study for formats of musics?

I really don't have an idea.
Would you give me some opions?

(I've seen "interesting books" article, but I still don't know which one to choose.)
Busemann
QUOTE(solaris @ Jun 6 2004, 11:35 PM)
Be aware that this might not be the same at other bitrates. Also remember that there are other encoders for MP3 and AAC out there, that might perform differently.

Yes, the one in iTunes 4.5 is overall much better than the 4.2 codec that was tested.

No one has done a proper ABX of it though wink.gif
rjamorim
QUOTE(Busemann @ Jun 7 2004, 01:55 PM)
Yes, the one in iTunes 4.5 is overall much better than the 4.2 codec that was tested.

No one has done a  proper ABX of it though  wink.gif

WTF! If noone did a proper ABX, how the heck can you claim 4.5 is "overall much better"?

Bleh.
Busemann
QUOTE(rjamorim @ Jun 7 2004, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE(Busemann @ Jun 7 2004, 01:55 PM)
Yes, the one in iTunes 4.5 is overall much better than the 4.2 codec that was tested.

No one has done a  proper ABX of it though  wink.gif

WTF! If noone did a proper ABX, how the heck can you claim 4.5 is "overall much better"?

Bleh.

hence the " wink.gif "

tongue.gif
Mike Giacomelli
QUOTE(Busemann @ Jun 7 2004, 08:55 AM)
QUOTE(solaris @ Jun 6 2004, 11:35 PM)
Be aware that this might not be the same at other bitrates. Also remember that there are other encoders for MP3 and AAC out there, that might perform differently.

Yes, the one in iTunes 4.5 is overall much better than the 4.2 codec that was tested.

No one has done a proper ABX of it though wink.gif

Actually 4.5 is considered worse or at least no better by many, which is why it was not used.
Pio2001
QUOTE(davince @ Jun 7 2004, 05:16 PM)
Actually, I don't know what book is suitable for me as a new.
I should study acoustics first or direct study for formats of musics?

I depends on your purpose. Do you want to encode some CDs of yours, or do you want to study the psychoacoustics theory ?

There are some infos in the hydrogenaudio knowledge base (link on the portal), but it is down for the time being.
There are some in-depht informations at http://www.mp3-tech.org/ and at http://www.david.robinson.org/papers.html
SirGrey
Just for beginning you can simply search for standart/codec names(aka AC3, MP3, AAC, Vorbis, OGG and so on) in Wikipedia.
It can give very general, but still useful knowledge...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
davince
QUOTE(Pio2001 @ Jun 7 2004, 11:12 AM)
I depends on your purpose. Do you want to encode some CDs of yours, or do you want to study the psychoacoustics theory ?

Actually, I want to study encoding first.
I have some plans to make good encoded files from cds and dvds(dvd-a or audio from dvd-v).

So i think I'll start with knowing how encoding works and comparisons between all kinds of audio formats, and then start studying in the psychoacoustics theory.

Are there books writing detailed description of audio formats and comparisons between those formats? unsure.gif
Or the information is just spread all over the internet?

thx a lot
rolleyes.gif
verloren
I don't think studying encoding will significantly improve your encoding ability (though it would obviously help you to *write* an encoder). Many smart people have worked on a range of encoders, and folks such as rjamorim have conducted tests to show which is 'better'. So pick the top two or three and give them a listen for yourself.

Cheers, Paul
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