Hello,

I'd like to connect my PC to my hifi setup and the distance is around 10m. It seems that an external Firewire card can fit the need, but it remains more expensive than internal card (I do not need overkill stuff, audiophile 24/96 should be OK).

Then, will 10m analog connection after internal sound card will be OK? (using shielded cable). And what about ground loops: will FW card be also a solution for this nasty issue?

Thanks!

Not much info here: how good is the rest of your setup?
Standard USB speed is sufficient for playback if you're worried about cost.

Indeed, USB should be OK also. The point is that I'd like to have something of the quality of Audiophile 24/96 (according to a lot of people here, better technical data are overkill), and this comes in two flavour, PCI and Firewire.

And the PCI version is now available at €90 in France... vs €255 for the FW flavour.

I can afford paying more for USB/FW card but only if necessary ie PCI version will raise issues for my setup, signal degradation and ground loops.

And, for the rest of my setup: stereo integrated amplifier (YBA if relevant) + a pair of BW CDM7NT + a lot, lot of CDs that I will FLAC, hence my need...

Thanks !

so paying 180EURO in austria for it will be way too much.
damn. perhaps i will have to order one from france or some other county ..
audiophile price in austria

The rest of your setup is very nice, so I wouldn't skimp on a soundcard. I've heard of some issues with ASIO on the audiophile. I'm not sure about whether there will be significant signal degradation over 10m or jitter in case you use digital output. The firewire audiophile should be fine; presumably it has a better internal adc than the cheaper pci version. Sorry I can't help much. The guys at head-fi will be more able to help since they are used to getting the best sound at this level of equipment.

Actually, I do not mind the ADC since I will use this equipment as output only.

Finally, due to the relatively low price of PCI version, I will buy one, then test it with 10m of analog link, then cut cables to 5m (with the cable passing in the middle of the room) if not happy, then if still not happy get the FW version and use the PCI version at work with my headphone.

@filR the price drop seems to be very recent. (the beginning of this week, ie yesterday I think). Not all stores in France have already changed their prices. But I talked to the phone yesterday with a guy from M-audio (marketing side, could not help with my question though) who confirmed the drop... Just wait a couple of days!

-ec

Meant DAC, sorry
For an internal sound card the E-MU 1212m is often very highly recommended, and should be significantly better than the audiophile. You might consider it. (It has balanced outputs which might also conceivably solve the distance problem, but I think it may need balanced inputs to deliver a balanced signal. If you could find something that inputs balanced and outputs non-balanced then it would work.) (Balanced connections are most often used in recording with long microphone cables.)

Update...

I have tried with 10m of cheap iterconnect cables (€8). The sound is very pleasant for me (I cannot hear any difference compared to my CD player [since I am not claiming to hear any difference I think I am not breaking any forum rule]).

A problem is that I can hear is very low-level hum when no music is played. At this moment I do not know if it is due to a ground issue or noise that gets on the cable. I will investigate more on this (share the same earth between PC and hifi setup, and try "high-end" coaxial cable [I mean cheap rg blabla from electronic store] to have - presumably - better imunity to noise).

BTW, no pop or click when the computer starts/stops.

Overall, I am very satisfied. And considering the new price for this card (maybe this is due to upcoming new marketing-driven unecessary 192 KHz model...) I would advice this card to anyone who'd like to get music - for listening- from a PC.

Edit: replaced "mass" (sounds like a false friend!) by "ground"

That is cheap for 10m. I don't know what Pio will say about making a statement saying you cant hear a difference without one of those ABX tests! As it's a skeptical forum, maybe you can make any skeptical claims with impunity . (Edit: actually, ABX tests are a way of making sure of a claim of positive difference, not a claim of no difference, so you have an excuse at least!)
Humming is something called a "ground loop" isn't it? I doubt the cable is causing the problem; there should be a simple solution (which I don't know).

If it were a ground loop it would be in the 50-60Hz region if you were in france i believe. What some Sub woofers offer is the chance to lift the ground wire, ie. disconnect the ground form the electrical equipment, you can even buy adapters that achieve this. Personally i think this is highly dangerous but i have done it before with an AMP and SUB to try and trace a ground loop fault. As a quick test, it shouldn't be a major problem but i wouldn't recommend runnign without ground wires overany long period of time.

With the setup i was testing though, the hum was to the SUB and was continuous and low frequency. Swapping the cable for a more expensive highly shielded cable sorted the problem out fully, it wasn't a ground loop problem.

Cheers,

Kristian

What if you were in Asia, or the US?

Reference : HERE!

It is dependant on the frequency of the AC mains supply in your area.

Kristian

//EDIT

for Asia:

Refrence : HERE!

A quick solution for ground loops is to share the same plug between PC and amp.

Anyway. I have just tried a very simple thing: remove the ground. And the noise is still there. Isn-t it possible that the noise I get is also LF? I mean, the noise I get is, I think, due to the proximity of 220V cables (cannot avoid it, due to PC at one end and hifi setup at the other end).

Then, I think I need other cables...

Do some of you could give advice for cables good for long run and noise immunity (and of course that can be found in an electronic store, not in a high-end hifi shop...). I have read that the only thing to pay attention to is the capacitance that should be kept low since it is no more negligable for such a length.

Not really. I mean, it will help, but if the leads going to the equipment aren't the same length (from the common point) and in the same environment, you still have the potential for ground loops.

That will make the problem worse!

50 Hz inducted hum, you mean? Well, the way to prove it one way or the other is to temporarily move your equipment right next to each other and try it out with short cables. (AC and audio)

If the hum goes away, then substitute the longer cables (with the equipment still co-located) and if it comes back then you might be able to fix it with cabling.

I think that you probably need opto-isolation.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no more negilgable for such a length," but I can assure you that at audio frequencies the capacitance won't be a problem.

There is no magic bullet for hum & noise. That's why instrumentation engineers get paid so much money. What kind of connectors are on the equipment you're connecting? Are there standard "rca" plugs on each end of the cable? If so, you could look for coaxial cable. I have a set of nice 2-meter coaxial audio/video cables that are well shielded that only cost me about $15.

Beyond that would be a shielded cable with two twisted pairs inside. You'd have to get the cable at an electronics supply store and put your own connectors on if you didn't want to pay an arm and a leg. Then the steps would be to connect the cable but leave the shielding disconnected. Check for hum. Then try connecting the shield to ground on one end. No hum? Stop. Still hum? Connect the shield on the other end. Still hum? Time for a USB sound card.

Thanks!

It's standard RCA connectors. When you mention 2 twisted pair, is it to take one pair for left channel and one pair for the right one?

What do you mean by opto-isolation?

Yes, one pair for left and one for right.

An opto isolator has an led and a photocell inside, so that the signal modulates the light output of the led, hence generating a modulated signal from the photocell. There is no electrical connection from end-to-end, therefore no possibility of ground loops.

You could always use the SP/DIF output from the 24/96 to transfer the signal digitally to a hi-fi DAC, or a minidisc player / receiver / "other hifi component with a digital input".

I run a signal from my server through 13 metres of co-axial cable to a Cambridge Audio DAC in my bedroom, and from there into my Klipsch "Pro-Media" speakers. No hiss, no pops. Total cable cost = about 1 Euro per meter + 5 Euros for the plugs on either end.

Before I bought the DAC, I used a very old minidisc player to convert from SP/DIF to analogue for the amplifier. It worked, but it didn't sound so good - it wasn't a very good minidisc player. You should be able to find quite a good DAC in resonably priced hi-fi these days. Someone else here could perhaps advise.

Remember that USB has a recommended cable length of around 5 metres. Same for firewire. So you may need some sort of hub to extend the signal as well, if you go for an external card.

Actually, I'd like to use the analogue output. Otherwise, an Audiophile 24/96 seems to be just a waste of money.

I suppose that the opto-isolator is not totally transparent, isn't-it?

I still have not tried what rfarris have kindly adviced me; time issue! I have to and I hope to try this this week-end and I also hope that it will work before the external soundcard solution. I not, I'll use this card at the office...

Thanks a lot for all your help!