I'm using a new Dell player, 94db S/N ratio and the Grado SR80s.

I cannot tell the difference between a 128k WMA9, a Lame preset -standard mp3 and a 90 quality WMA9 VBR. I know I should be able to, but for the life of me I can't! I've narrowed it down to a few possibilities.

1. My headphones/MP3 player aren't good enough to be able to tell.

2. My ears aren't good enough to tell

3. The songs I am using aren't detailed enough for there to be a difference.

I am using RAP and R&B songs for my source. The Rap song I'm currently using is D12 "Fight Music" and "Purple Pills". Last year I used an R&B song from Joe called "Love Scene" (was comparing 128k wma to 192k wma back then, couldn't tell a difference either).

I SHOULD be able to tell the difference between these files with my equipment shouldn't I? Can someone recommend a source song I can use that really highlights the differences between the different bitrates, maybe I'll be able to tell then

Thanx!

There is a collection of "problem samples" commonly used to stress-test audio compression algorithms here.

Ok after encoding the fatboy.wav file at

http://lame.sourceforge.net/gpsycho/quality.html

I can hear an obvious difference. 128 LAME mp3 sounded MUCH better than 128 wma, and one step less than 256 wma! The best sounding file I encoded was a Lame preset standard file which sounded perfect.

The big question is, will I ever hear such a difference in a normal song...I'll do more testing and see.

you may hear differences. a lot of hip-hop and stuff has artificial crackle, and loud drum hits that can easily generate pre-echo (like you heard in Fatboy).

encode in whatever format sounds best to you, but remember - WMA is the evil format

[edit]

and btw, "CD quality" is probably not the best term to use, but rather "transparent".

CD quality is impossible with any lossy codec (by definition), but transparency is more than possible in a well-designed codec (i wouldn't consider WMA one of these, but i'm a cyber-commie left-wing-pinko, so don't take my opinion as fact).

transparency = perceptually indistinguishable from the original

"CD Quality" = not all that meaningful, but basically means bit-identical to the PCM data on the CD after reconstruction. no lossy codec does this.

Thanx for clarifying that for me! I always thought of "cd quality" and "transparency" as meaning the same thing.

Unfortunately for me, most of my music does not come directly from the CD. Most of my stuff is 128mp3 transcoded from 128wma (don't ask), but honestly this sounds great to me. Maybe its good I don't know what I'm missing

I may, however, start using buy.com since they are offering 256 wmas for .79-.99 cents. While I accept they may not sound as good as Lame alt preset standard, the only place AFAIK to get those type of songs is from AllOfMp3, which is mostly transcoded stuff...though their new non-transcoded stuff interests me alot.

a 6-7mb song is 14cents at AllOfMp3 in Lame alt preset instead of .79-.99 cents for 256 wma...

Edit: AllOfMp3.com gets nothing from me until they put PayPal back up as an option!

generally, rap and r&b are much easier to compress then most other types of music.

for example, a rap cd (eminem -marshall mathers lp), which i encoded in lame -aps came in at about 160-170k average.

meanwhile, a rock cd (drowning pool - sinner), which i also encoded in lame -aps came in at about 240-260k average

try abx'ing with a rock cd, or the problem samples.

Wow! That post gives me alot of information. I didn't know that lame -aps gives such a wide range of outputs. I thought it was all 200+, its truly more advanced than I thought.

So if everyone around here hates WMA, where do you buy your music for a non-Ipod Mp3 player? Does everyone here get their music from AllOfMp3.com, or do you guys just buy the CDs?

I personally just buy CDs and rip to lossless for my hard drive and Vorbis for my iRiver H120. I like actually owning the CD personally because I get a lyrics booklet and uncompressed PCM audio to start from.

Now, I don't know anything about dell MP3 players and buy.com, but I just wanted to point out that two things are important to consider before buying music online (you may very well have thought of this already):
1. Does the music store use DRM?
2. Does the player support it?

i buy cd's, borrow cd's, and when i can't get my hands on the actual cd, or the whole cd isnt worth buying, i try to get it off p2p in lossless, or use allofmp3.com and download with -aps, or ogg -q6 depending on what i need it for.