Everybody knows how annoying the speed penalty inflicted by enabling the drive's cache override in EAC is: it effectively doubles your extraction times. So I set about testing just how much good this feature actually does.

I ripped a dozen CDs with EAC's Copy and Test function, using the Secure mode settings EAC auto-detected for the PX-712:
-Drive has 'Accurate Stream' feature
-Drive caches audio
-Drive is capable of retriving C2 error iinformation

Extraction speed maxed out at ~14X. I made sure the CRC column read OK for all tracks. Then I went at it again, this time with the Drive caches audio checkbox cleared. The same CRCs every time, but at over 30X!

Next I took a certain problematic CD that I ripped several times already. EAC always had a bit of trouble with the last two tracks here: mismatching CRCs in Burst mode, big slowdown in Secure mode. Once again I was not disappointed - doubled extraction speed with correct CRCs.

Finally I pulled out the old "Broken EP" by NIN I had bought second hand, scratched so bad as to appear totally unplayable. Despite the looks, on previous occasions EAC managed to extract all but two tracks in the middle in Secure mode, though not without considerable chugging. Again I got the correct CRCs for the rest of the tracks, even with the cache override disabled. Not quite convinced, I compared the tracks ripped that way with the older rip (done with the cache checkox ticked). EAC's Compare WAVs... tool reported no differences (yes, I have Determine differences more exact box checked under EAC->WAV Editor options->Compare).

Thus EAC's cache override function appears to be useless with the recent Plextor drives (Premium and PX-712A). Disabling it produces near-Burst mode extraction speeds, but the confidence benefits of Secure mode. While I allow that there may be some exceptional cases where that can produce an inaccurate rip, the results of the preliminary tests are very encouraging.

Sounds like EAC reaching Plextools' extraction speed ... yeee-haw

Maybe the Plextor drives natively use a proper implementation of the FUA bit when doing DAE ...

Ok, I unchecked the "Drive Caches Audio" box for my Plextor Premium, and I was shocked at how fast it ripped. At least twice as fast. In fact, now I'm having to rethink my flac-compression operation.

It used to be that the flac compression was always faster than ripping. Now I'm getting flac-tasks stacked up. Even with the P4-optimized flac.exe. You're a trouble-maker, Never_Again!

Did you already try this without C2 ? It would be interesting whether your findings are coupled to C2 usage or not ...

I've already done this before, but i never examined the results of my rip closer. I own a PX-52/24/52A and i noticed that when i ticked off caching, it went on detecting unperfect sectors, but it didn't try to correct them, it skipped correction.


Anyway ! I'm subscribed to the eac list and nobody put some optimist solution over the problem of plextor's caching feature. Thanks !

I wonder if this also happens with a tad older drives
like the PX-W4824A...

I didn't because these tests take a bit much time and that is in limited suppy. Besides, my interest in the matter was purely practical.
But you're welcome to pick up where I left off, you got both drives as well... =)

edit: what is FUA?

Force Unit Access

Is there a way we could all mass test to confirm this?
It would be GREAT if I no longer needed to check the "cache" option and get faster rips...
Cheers

What is Force Unit Access and how does it help DAE?

It tells the device to re-read the data from the disc rather than delivering the cached content.

The FUA command is part of the MMC command set and can (if applied properly) force the drive to perform a direct disc access without using the physical buffer.

To revive an old thread . . . I just bought a Plextor 712A and I want to know how reliable these findings are?

Here is what I get in EAC for settings and rough rip speed:

Cache: On, C2:Off - 6x
Cache: On, C2:On - 8.5x
Cache: Off, C2:Off - 8x
Cache: Off, C2:On - 14x

So can we say that is okay to turn the cache option off for the Plextor drive? In theory, if the drive does cache and the box is not checked, wouldn't any CD rip be deemed without error by EAC (since the second time it reads the byte, it reads from the cache). I have a CD with a notorious problem spot, and with the cache feature off it was still able to detect it - though it seemed to do a better job correcting it than it would have leaving it on.

I read an old review on cdrinfo.com that says the drive's C2 reliablity is about 74%, but it was old and tested on firmware 1.0.0. Does anybody know if this has improved with the new firmware? If so, then I can leave C2 and achieve the optimum speed.

Might I be better off simply using Plextools which rips failry consistently at 14x, and which I hear is just as accurate as EAC for the Plextor drives?

I'd like to get best ripping speed out of my drive while maintaining pretty secure rips. What do you guys think is best to do? Or has nothing been determined?

Thanks.

It looks like you have found the answers to your questions already. Do I have to repeat the same thing over and over to make you feel more confident ? =)

There is something wrong with your setup if you get 14x max. You should see up to the drive's max (40x) on a CD that is long enough and in a reasonably good condition.

I guess the cache thing at this point is clear, though it seems to me rather counterintuitive.

I want be assured about relying on the C2, since I hear it's not reliable on all drives. The review I read thought the C2 was less than perfect, and was hoping for improvements in later firmware. I was hoping someone would know anything about it. I'd also like to keep using EAC if I can safely choose settings that allow it to securely rip as fast as Plextools. If not, then I wanted to know if using Plextools, which would be faster, be just as secure?

As for max rip speed, any suggestions on what I could look into changing? The drive is already in DMA mode and is the master drive on the second IDE. On all out burst mode I can get the thing to rip at about 30x. I have it installed on a Pentium 733, which is actually just lower than the "minimal requirements" for the drive (the manual says at least Pentium 800). Maybe that has something to do with it? I also understand that getting one of these drives can be hit or miss, as a batch of them are somewhat faulty. 14x is still craploads faster than what I'm used to, so I'd be pretty happy with it.

EDIT: Turns out it was in PIO mode. Funny. It must have reset itself at some point since I'm pretty sure I made an effort to set it to DMA mode. Anyways, now it rips closer it 25x with cache off, C2 on in EAC.

And yeah, sometimes I just need a little confirmation to be confident.

These threads about EAC never fail to amaze me. Have any of you tried ripping these problematic tracks with EAC burst mode or other free burst mode ripping tools like Foobar2000, CDEX and dbPoweramp. Could you hear a click or a pop?

I quit using the secure mode when I realized that my drive, a Lite-On, would rip previously problematic tracks without audible artifacts in the burst mode. From there it was not hard to shift to any of the other apps, most of which are faster and easier to use.

We regularly talk of the importance of confirming everything through listening tests, yet when it comes to ripping there is this holy grail of the bit perfect rip.

My prior drive did not cache audio, and when the tracks had problems there would be a slight pop, but EAC would tell me that there were errors on that track and the others were fine.

What would you rather have, nice messages from your ripping program or rips without audible problems? IMO, if the disk is messed up, nothing will give a bit perfect rip, but some drives and burst mode ripping will produce an artifact free rip. The EAC secure mode will just grind away until the drive wears out.

I thought that if the C2 option is on, then secure mode doesn't re-read unless the drive reports a C2 error, in which case for pristine disks secure mode *won't* give the drive any more stress than burst mode. And if a disc does have C2 errors, then secure mode is the only chance you have of getting a clean rip. Have I misunderstood something here?

Pristine CDs are a rare thing with most users, I suppose, so Secure mode is harder on the drive. But Plextor users have another option: PlexTools Pro.

I've never played frisbee with my CDs, and the overwhelming majority of them *are* pristine.

But surely Plextools Pro works *precisely* the same way as EAC secure mode with C2 on: it reads in burst mode until a C2 error is detected, then it re-reads, and may also slow down the extraction speed. So non-pristine discs will be as hard on the drive using Plextools as they are with EAC.

As it happens, I have a Plextor drive, but I prefer EAC over Plextools for ripping, for two reasons:
1. EAC's interface to FreeDB, and the ability to edit incorrect data coming from it, is much better.
2. If you're MP3 encoding as you rip, Plextools gets bottlenecked by the LAME DLL. EAC queues up compression tasks, so you can quickly feed in all your CDs and then walk away while the encoding is done.

Almost a year and a few hundred ripped CDs later I can confirm that disabling cache override (i.e. clearing the Drive caches audio data checkbox) is a big bonus for Plextor users.

I did run into two or three CDs where ripping with cache override disabled produced mismatching CRCs on some tracks. Nevertheless, I can continue to wholeheartedly recommend keeping that checkbox cleared, because with the speedup that gives you you can afford doing Test & Copy and still beat the "proper" Secure mode by at least 2X.

Well I'm glad i just found this thread, because EAC's rip time is killing me. I have a PX-712 as well and just started ripping my CD collection for the first time. I have to say that EAC just seems to lock up on me everytime it comes across an error. I have let it run on a track overnight twice now (different cd's each test) and it gets nowhere. And these are CD's that don't skp! I don't know what is going on here, but i guess i'm off to buy some Brasso in hopes of cleaning the CD enough for EAC to rip it without getting locked up. At the rate i'm going, i'll never get my CD's ripped. OK, enough of my bitching, i'm just frustrated. I'll give the setting recommended in this thread a try and report back.

Thanks for the help,

John

Use plextools DAE instead, works much better with scrathed CDs.

Is there any way I can find out whether my Plextor PX-W5224A supports -usefua?

I've ripped many hundreds of CDs in the past with the cache override enabled and still I've had the odd mismatching CRC now and then.

When I use EAC, I'll only ever resort to secure mode if a burst mode test and copy fails to produce a matching CRC. Burst mode is much faster and as a result surely puts less stress on the drive.

I own a Plextor Cd-Rw W161040a dedicated to DAE, using
ONLY Burst Mode + Test & Copy at the maximum speed (30X !!!) for several years.
I have extracted almost 1500 cds, some of them with visible scratches.
In 99.9% of the tracks I obtain CRCs Matching Ok, so I re-rip only the tracks
with CRCs not matching.
Usually in two or three times slowing down the extraction to 4X I'm able to rip even the sctrached ones.
And with burst mode at 4X I'm able to extract copy-protected cd.
With secure mode enabled the extraction on problematic tracks takes FOREVER, stressing the drive etc.
For me, like other Plextor users, "Secure Extraction", "Disable Cache", "C2 error correction", etc. are superfluous functions.

Unless you rip to images.

Test and copy is not available... yet.

The best would be to try it with a scratched, but not totally unreadable CD and compare the CRCs with and without -usefua.

I *THINK* that you can try with and without and if you get the same realtive speed differencces I got in my tests (see my post in another related thread) you can reasonably tell that it supports FUA.

Sergio

OK, thanks. I guess I will have to spend some time doing that.


I did try it (no cache, with C2) last night and got around 22-25x. I just thought that if I had caching unchecked it would be fast anyway, i.e.: if it supports -usefua it will be fast and correctly rereading from the drive, but if it doesn't it will be fast but reading from the cache without knowing.

Is this not the case?

What did EAC say about your drive features? If it detects your drive as non-caching after -usefua, it is likely (but not sure) to work as it should.

It did say it was non-caching.

Good point. Edit: Thanks!

Why did this not work for me with the -usefua switch?

See:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=347183

with the -usefua switch eac still tells me that my 712uf (it's a usb drive) drive caches.

using c2 and disabling caching makes speed go way up, but i've yet to test it extensively accuracy-wise. i use accurate-rip, so that can help in testing.

edit: ok, when i ripped dire straits' walk of life from the album money for nothing, with caching and no c2 (normal style) in secure mode, i get trouble spots in the track at four points (two of them are 2-3 second periods), and with this new thing i get only one 4 second trouble period, a different one from the first rip.

in neither case are the errors in any way audible.

what do i trust?

Trust your ears. If you can't hear any problems then there doesn't seem to be a problem. Technically, there might be some errors, but if you can't hear them, what does it matter?