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rfarris
QUOTE(ponchorage @ Oct 6 2004, 12:09 PM)
Okay, I think I get it. This embedded cue sheet doesn't save the titles. Well, just one title, and it puts it in there for each song.
...
My individual flacs do contain all of the information I posted above though.
*


Of course they do. And so does everyone elses. Nobody argued with that. Nobody really argued about anything, LOL.

What got us all excited, though, was your claim that the internal cuesheet had the track titles.
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Oct 2 2004, 07:28 PM)
QUOTE(TwoJ @ Oct 2 2004, 06:16 PM)
Synth, I would be interested in a version made for FLAC  biggrin.gif
*

The code for the batch file is below - save it as eac-flac.cmd. Your EAC command line options would be:

/c C:\dos\eac-flac.cmd %o %s %d "%a" "%g" %hHIGH%h %lLOW%l

However, I would recommend using the MAREO settings I suggested to rfarris, as it will probably be easier to maintain in the long run.

CODE
@ECHO OFF
CLS

REM ===================
REM  Parameter mapping
REM ===================
REM  %o  %s  %d  "%a"  "%g"  %hHIGH%h  %lLOW%l
REM  %1  %2  %3   %4    %5   %6        %6

<snip>


REM =========================================
REM  SetHigh : sets compression rate to high
REM =========================================
:SetHigh
REM Compression level: High
ECHO Comression      : High
SET flacCompression=-8
GOTO:EOF



I know this thread has been dormant for a while, but Synthetic Soul, I want to get your batch file for FLAC working. It's giving me an error, the CMD window isn't opening, and I get a windows dialogue that says the following:

-------------------------------------------------------
The external compressor returned an error!
Options:/c "C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd""Range.flac.wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp)!58).wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp)!58).flac" "Sigur Ros" "()" LOW

File: Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Range.flac.wav
--------------------------------------------------------

As you'll notice I am trying to rip a RANGE, a selection of tracks of the CD as a single file, through EAC. The above options list the Artist and Album correctly for this example - Sigur Ros, () - though I don't know what they refer to here

I have all the compression settings as you said they should be, and am using the cmd file you posted above.

Thanks if you can suggest something...
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(dajabo @ Mar 12 2005, 12:51 PM)
The external compressor returned an error!
Options:/c "C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd""Range.flac.wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp)!58).wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp)!58).flac" "Sigur Ros" "()" LOW

File: Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Range.flac.wav

The problem is with your command line options in EAC. You will notice above that there is no space between these two strings:

"C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd""Range.flac.wav"

It should read:

"C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd" "Range.flac.wav"

Ensure you command line in EAC is as follows:

/c "C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd" %o %s %d "%a" "%g" %hHIGH%h %lLOW%l

I assume yours is currently:

/c "C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd"%o %s %d "%a" "%g" %hHIGH%h %lLOW%l

QUOTE(dajabo @ Mar 12 2005, 12:51 PM)
As you'll notice I am trying to rip a RANGE, a selection of tracks of the CD as a single file, through EAC. The above options list the Artist and Album correctly for this example - Sigur Ros, () - though I don't know what they refer to here

If you rip to a range you don't automatically get a cuesheet - so the call to TAG to add the cuesheet as a VORBIS tag will fail.

If you create a cuesheet manually (Action > Create CUE Sheet > Single WAV File...) you could get it to work, but [a] the cuesheet will need the right name (Range.flac.cue), [b] the cuesheet may not be accurate, depending on the range you are ripping, and [c] You will need to edit the cuesheet no doubt to point to the eventual flac file (Range.flac.flac).

Basically, this is a no-goer.

Why are you ripping a range?


dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 12 2005, 08:52 PM)
Ensure you command line in EAC is as follows:

/c "C:\Program Files\FLAC\eac-flac.cmd" %o %s %d "%a" "%g" %hHIGH%h %lLOW%l

<snip>

Basically, this is a no-goer.

Why are you ripping a range?
*



Thanks you were right about the command line.

I'm ripping classical music into ranges, to keep a piece of music, consisting of 2-5 tracks, together in one file. I generally don't use images but thought this would be a good use of the principle.

But yes but the cuesheet is so much hassle I might just give up. I don't mind doing a little bit of work for each rip but having to recalculate the index times in new cuesheets I don't fancy. I really just want to have a single file for a piece of music and have the per-track info show up in foobar.

Unless you have any inspired suggestions I may have to stick to an image of the entire CD ...
Synthetic Soul
I think maybe you should just go the individual track route.

FLAC will provide gapless playback - so if you load just those tracks that make up the piece into Foobar and hit play from the first one, you will get seemless (gapless) playback from the first to the last.

It may be worth taking a look at this thread, paying particular attention to post #11.


If you really want an image for the whole piece then I can only suggest ripping the whole CD to CUE/WAV, loading into foobar, selecting the relevant tracks, using Diskwriter to convert to FLAC (Convert > Run conversion, single file output), and using a component to create a CUE from the playlist (which I think exists).

I don't see a problem with gapless tracks though.
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 13 2005, 08:30 PM)

If you really want an image for the whole piece then I can only suggest ripping the whole CD to CUE/WAV, loading into foobar, selecting the relevant tracks, using Diskwriter to convert to FLAC (Convert > Run conversion, single file output), and using a component to create a CUE from the playlist (which I think exists).

I don't see a problem with gapless tracks though.
*



That's not a bad suggestion, actually. The problem with individual tracks for me is that on shuffle play you get only bits of a symphony, or sonata, or whatever. The reason I wanted a single file is to make the file management (and the actions based on the file structure - such as shuffle) more straightforward. It makes sense to have one piece of music in one file.

Not being a programmer I would assume it would be easy enough to build 'rip to a range and create cue sheet' into EAC. If all the information were available the program could just adjust the index times to the new image, starting track 1 (that was track 5, say) at 0:00:00 rather than at 8:45:33, or whatever.

Though I bet a lot of people would be offended at such a use of cuesheets - me not being a standards guru I just want what would be useful to me.
Synthetic Soul
The component foo_cue_ex will supposedly export a playlist to cuesheet - but I can't see for the life of me see how! I have seen posts where others have got this to work, so it must just be me.

I'm sure 'rip to a range and create cue sheet' could be implemented easily. Alternatively, a tool to grab a part of a cuesheet (from a given track) and reset the timings should be pretty easy to make. It's very possible that one already exists.

Edit: spelling
Synthetic Soul
I've had a play and created a thing called cuepart.exe (linked removed, use the WSF version)

I hope to get time to rewrite this, and make it easier to use.

As it stands you would use it as follows:

CUEPART.EXE <cuesheet> <track range> <new cuesheet>

E.g.:

CUEPART.EXE "C:\My Music\CDImage.cue" 3-6 "C:\My Music\Range.cue"

This will grab tracks 3-6 from CDImage.cue, reindex them, reset the timing, and save it off as Range.cue. I've tested this quickly by using Convert > Run conversion, single file output in Foobar on a few consecutive tracks, and it seems to work fine. I also ripped tracks separately from both playlists and compared track WAVs using EAC and they were bit-identical.

As it stands you will then have to open Range.cue and amend the "FILE" line to point to your range file. If I do get chance to redo it I will allow some way of setting this from the app (a fourth parameter no doubt).

If you are interested please take a look. Let me know if you can think of any obvious improvements. If I do rewrite I may let it run in a GUI mode if no parameters are passed - i.e.: if you just double click it a form will open and let you do it that way (so you have both command line interface and GUI).

The app is written in VB6, and requires Windows Script to be installed. If you're on XP you should have it installed. If not you may need to install this (but it's very likely that another app has installed it previously). Try it without first.

Edit: Added optional fourth parameter @ 16:46 (now).

CUEPART.EXE "C:\My Music\CDImage.cue" 3-6 "C:\My Music\Range.cue" "piece one.flac"

This will grab tracks 3-6 from CDImage.cue, reindex them, reset the timing, and save it off as Range.cue, pointing to the file "piece one.flac".

If you don't provide the fourth parameter no change will be made to the "FILE" line.
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 15 2005, 05:26 PM)
I've had a play and created a thing called cuepart.exe

<snip>

This will grab tracks 3-6 from CDImage.cue, reindex them, reset the timing, and save it off as Range.cue, pointing to the file "piece one.flac".


Synthetic Soul you're a genius and a legend!

Only trouble is I installed scripten.exe from your link and now I get a "cuepart.exe is not a win32 application" error !? I dont' understand. Before I installed scripten I could get the screen with the command syntax when I opened cuepart.exe. But there was another error (that I can't remember) when I ran it from the command line, so I thought I'd try what you suggested...
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(dajabo @ Mar 15 2005, 07:57 PM)
Only trouble is I installed scripten.exe from your link and now I get a "cuepart.exe is not a win32 application" error !? I dont' understand. Before I installed scripten I could get the screen with the command syntax when I opened cuepart.exe. But there was another error (that I can't remember) when I ran it from the command line, so I thought I'd try what you suggested...

How very annoying.

It works fine on my Win2K at home and work.

The only external reference it has is to the Windows Scripting Runtime, which should be installed if you ran scripten.

Are you on Win2K or XP?

OK, let's try another way. I have converted the script to a Windows Scripting Host VBS file. You can download it here (you may have to right click on this link and choose "Save Link As" - Firefox opens it as a text file). Use it exactly as you would the EXE, e.g.:

cuepart.vbs "E:\Testing\CDImage.cue" 3-7 "E:\Testing\Range.cue" Range.wav

... or double click on the file for a popup telling you usage guidelines.

I hope this works.

Edit: NB: You may have to reboot to finish the scripten install...
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 15 2005, 11:18 PM)
Are you on Win2K or XP?

OK, let's try another way.  I have converted the script to a Windows Scripting Host VBS file. You can download it here

<snip>

I hope this works.

Edit: NB: You may have to reboot to finish the scripten install...
*



I'm on win2k, and I rebooted a couple of times : ) and tried the install of scripten again !! How totally bizarre!!

The VBS file behaves perfectly when it's double-clicked, but running from the cmd line gives the error:

Line 97
Char 1
Error Invalid procedure call or arguement: "Mid"
Code 800A0005

Synthetic Soul
Ho hum. rolleyes.gif

Can you post the command line you are using, and the contents of the cuesheet please?

Maybe someone else could try, to help me out?

Edit: Also, please download again - I've added a little more error-proofing, which may help diagnose your error.
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 15 2005, 11:47 PM)
Ho hum.  rolleyes.gif

Can you post the command line you are using, and the contents of the cuesheet please?
*



Ho hum indeed. Thanks for your efforts Synth. If it's alright at your end perhaps things are corrupted at mine. Sounds like something isn't right somewhere.

My command line is:
CODE
C:\cuepart.vbs "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Luig
iCherubini.cue" 5-8 "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Cherubini.cue" "Cherubini - String
Quartet No 2 in C major.flac"


The CueSheet goes:
CODE
PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
TITLE "Luigi Cherubini: String Quartets Volume 1"
FILE "Range.wav" WAVE
 TRACK 01 AUDIO
   TITLE "I Adagio"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 00:00:00
 TRACK 02 AUDIO
   TITLE "II Larghetto"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 11:57:12
 TRACK 03 AUDIO
   TITLE "III Scherzo"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 20:51:00
 TRACK 04 AUDIO
   TITLE "IV Finale"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 27:28:00
 TRACK 05 AUDIO
   TITLE "I Lento - Allegro"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 32:02:45
 TRACK 06 AUDIO
   TITLE "II Lento"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 42:12:00
 TRACK 07 AUDIO
   TITLE "III Scherzo"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 50:50:40
 TRACK 08 AUDIO
   TITLE "IV Finale"
   PERFORMER "Quartetto David"
   INDEX 01 55:07:00


Just tried it again with the same result and message...
Synthetic Soul
Thanks.

Please download again.

My mistake - error caused as last track in range was last track in cuesheet. blush.gif

As I say, I hope to rewrite. smile.gif


Going to bed now...
dajabo
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 16 2005, 12:10 AM)
Thanks.

Please download again.

My mistake - error caused as last track in range was last track in cuesheet. blush.gif

As I say, I hope to rewrite. smile.gif


Going to bed now...
*



Now I could kiss you wub.gif But unfortunately I never come to Exeter!
That was like magic ... I'll just have to learn how to write stuff like that!
Brilliant, you've made me a very happy little ripper!!

In terms of suggestions, I guess I would like to try to incorporate the process into the batch file sequence you already have, to automate it as much as possible. But I think I can manage batch files !! (I said I think! .... I'll have a go)

But if you happen to know that this just wouldn't be possible, let me know, so I don't go tearing my hair out over nothing. <grin>
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(dajabo @ Mar 15 2005, 11:28 PM)
Now I could kiss you  wub.gif But unfortunately I never come to Exeter!
That was like magic ... I'll just have to learn how to write stuff like that!
Brilliant, you've made me a very happy little ripper!!

In terms of suggestions, I guess I would like to try to incorporate the process into the batch file sequence you already have, to automate it as much as possible. But I think I can manage batch files !! (I said I think! .... I'll have a go)

But if you happen to know that this just wouldn't be possible, let me know, so I don't go tearing my hair out over nothing. <grin>

Firstly, please download the latest version. There were some known (by me) issues with cuesheets with INDEX 0 markers in pertinent places causing a wrong timing offset. I slept on it and fixed it this morning. I can't get it to slip up now - I have tried with various setups and each time the results are bit-identical (which is good). There is now an accompanying readme also.

No problem, I enjoyed the challenge. I want to write a full cuesheet parser at some point (not really sure why) that will store all info in an object-oriented way, allowing me to manipulate it any way I see fit (the general idea is for some sort of CD image > individual tracks processing). This was a good introduction to the problems.

VB/VBScript is very easy - its these C/C++ programmers that make me jealous. I think it is quite cool being able to write a 9KB script like cuepart.vbs that can just run like an EXE though. Good ol' Bill! wink.gif

The main problem I see with incorporating cuepart in a batch file, or any automated process, is that the range that you want to rip will be different per CD. This makes automation awkward.

There is no reason why cuepart can't be called from a batch file - I have been doing so to test it.

I started having a thought yesterday, and it has only concluded this morning. As you are using FLAC you could actually do it all through EAC, FLAC/METAFLAC and CUEPART, like so:

CD > EAC.EXE >> CDImage.flac.cue & CDImage.flac (with embedded CUE)
CDImage.flac > FLAC.EXE >> Range.flac (using the --cue switch)
CDImage.flac.cue > CUEPART.VBS >> Range.cue
[Range.cue > METAFLAC.EXE >> Range.flac (with embedded cuesheet)]

I don't use FLAC so I'm not really that up on it. I know FlacAttack uses the the --cue switch to split an image flac into tracks.

To extract tracks 5-8 it would be something like:

FLAC.EXE -d -o Range.flac --cue=5.1-9.0 CDImage.flac

Feel free to post back here and I'll help any way I can.

NB: You should check out Devon sometime, it is beautiful. I'll pass on the kiss though, if it's all the same. wink.gif

Edit: I just realised, as the name implies, decoding CDImage.flac will not result in Range.flac, but Range.wav. Doh! blush.gif I guess you'd need an extra step to convert Range.wav to Range.flac.

It may also be worth looking at shntool instead of doing CDImage.FLAC > Range.WAV > Range.FLAC (you would be able to just do CDImage.WAV > Range.FLAC I believe).
dajabo
Synth, I've been spending way too much time playing with this but it works for me now.

I've just made a simple batch file that runs cuepart.vbs - I just alter the bat file to specify the track range and resulting file name. That's fine for me.

I'm still trying to use your eac-flac.cmd batch file from EAC to encode the ripped range, and store the Cuesheet info in a vorbis tag.

Small problem. I get an error when the cmd file kicks in. This is it:

****************************************
The external compressor returned an error!

Options: /c "<path to eac-flac.cmd>" "Range.flac.wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp42660.wav" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp42660.flac"
"<artist info from EAC>" "<title info from EAC>" LOW

File: Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Range.flac.wav

****************************************

Am I right in assuming it is looking for Range.flac.wav and can't find it??

AT the moment the error comes up this file has been renamed to Rtmp...wav (in this case Rtmp42660.wav)

Any thoughts?
Synthetic Soul
Is your cuesheet called "Range.flac.cue"? Is it in the folder "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\"?

If you haven't touched the TAG.EXE lines in the batch file TAG will be trying to run:

"<path to>\TAG.EXE" --artist "<artist>" --album "<album>" -f "CUESHEET=Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Range.flac.cue" "Y:\music\cache\CLASSICAL\Rtmp42660.flac"

If you are unsure where the problem occurs it is probably worth sticking a few PAUSE staments in the batch file, before important lines, so you can easily see when the error occurs, e.g.:

PAUSE
%flacCommand%


PAUSE
%tagCommand%
atici
I am utterly confused. I have several albums in FLAC with embedded cue sheet. I access them with foobar2000. Now I realized that I cannot use special characters in the tags. Do you have any idea why this is the case?

More particularly some of the titles in the album has accents which I want to include. But when I edit the title with accented characters, update the tag and reload the tag from file I see that all the special characters are missing. This is very annoying.

Also it seems like it's not possible to add track-gain values to individual tracks within the single FLAC file. Any solutions for that?
Synthetic Soul
Are you editing the CUESHEET tag value, or the track values (Foobar database values)? If you edit the track values it won't update the CUESHEET tag.

If the cuesheet is embedded in a VORBIS tag (not the FLAC META tag) you could edit the tag contents (the cuesheet) in Foobar, and that should work.

I have no idea about the track gain. I don't see how. I seem to remember Poncharage asking about this in another thread.
atici
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 21 2005, 02:38 PM)
Are you editing the CUESHEET tag value, or the track values (Foobar database values)?  If you edit the track values it won't update the CUESHEET tag.

If the cuesheet is embedded in a VORBIS tag (not the FLAC META tag) you could edit the tag contents (the cuesheet) in Foobar, and that should work.

I have no idea about the track gain.  I don't see how.  I seem to remember Poncharage asking about this in another thread.
*


I try to edit the CUESHEET tag value with no success. I edit it, update it but nothing changes after I reload the file. When I edit the track values (database disabled) I see the change on foobar but the change is not reflected in the file -> a restart of foobar and everything is it used to be. I think there's a problem with using UNICODE characters within the CUESHEET and fb2k can't deal with them.

Is there a way to strip off the embedded cuesheet entirely now (deleting CUESHEET tag seems impossible) and do it from scratch?

Are you saying if I created an OGG FLAC things would be working?

What is the best solution now to have all the tracks named correctly with accents if I am to use a single FLAC file?

Edit: There's a thread about this issue on foobar2000. What other software can deal with embedded cuesheets so that I can tag them with UNICODE characters ?
VCSkier
if i ever get the hard drive i want, i'd want to backup all my cd's similarly, but i'd perfer to use wavpack. is that possible? does wavpack work as well and w/ all the features as flac?

im new to using cdimages and cue sheets and stuff. dont really know how it all works... it seems alot more confusing and alot less talked about than creating individual files.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(atici @ Mar 21 2005, 09:59 PM)
I try to edit the CUESHEET tag value with no success. I edit it, update it but nothing changes after I reload the file. When I edit the track values (database disabled) I see the change on foobar but the change is not reflected in the file -> a restart of foobar and everything is it used to be. I think there's a problem with using UNICODE characters within the CUESHEET and fb2k can't deal with them.

Foobar stores all tags using UTF-8 I believe, including cuesheets.

QUOTE(atici @ Mar 21 2005, 09:59 PM)
Is there a way to strip off the embedded cuesheet entirely now (deleting CUESHEET tag seems impossible) and do it from scratch?

If you are using Foobar you should just be able to "Remove" the cuesheet tag from the File Info dialogue

If you are using TAG.EXE you could just do:

TAG.EXE -t "CUESHEET=" "CDImage.ape"

QUOTE(atici @ Mar 21 2005, 09:59 PM)
Are you saying if I created an OGG FLAC things would be working?

No. I'm referring to tagging. This is where things get confusing with FLAC. With FLAC you can store a cuesheet in two places:
  1. The FLAC CUESHEET block
  2. A VORBIS tag called CUESHEET
I believe both are picked up by Foobar. The FLAC CUESHEET block won't store TITLE/PERFORMER information - so if Foobar is displaying Artist/Album/Track info then you must be using a VORBIS tag. I think. I don't use FLAC personally, or or the Foobar database (which seems to add other issues into this mix), so I get a bit confused at this point. I don't expect Foobar would let you edit the FLAC CUESHEET block - so that's another reason I assume you are using the VORBIS tag.

How did you get the cuesheet into the FLAC file? (i.e.: What app did you use?)

If you do have your cuesheet in a VORBIS tag I don't see any reason why changes made to the tag value in Foobar wouldn't persist. It is possible that Foobar has a "cached" version of the info that isn't clearing. Try making changes, moving the file, and reopening.

As I say, I find this area confusing at times also.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 22 2005, 12:48 AM)
if i ever get the hard drive i want, i'd want to backup all my cd's similarly, but i'd perfer to use wavpack.  is that possible?  does wavpack work as well and w/ all the features as flac?

im new to using cdimages and cue sheets and stuff.  dont really know how it all works...  it seems alot more confusing and alot less talked about than creating individual files.

If you are backing up to CD I would personally recommend WavPack over FLAC - due to it's better compression. I use Monkey's Audio (APE) for my archiving, due to it's decent compression. I am seriously considering switching to WavPack, as I think it has a better future, and I just like the way David Bryant does things. WavPacks' packed full of features.

I like archiving to a CD image with cuesheet, as it just seems more compact. I can easily transcode to lossy individual track files using Foobar with Diskwriter. I am also hoping to work on a WSF (Windows Script File) very soon, to do this from the command line also.

Basically, you just get one big audio file for the whole CD, with a text cuesheet that points to the image file, detailing track start times. Using both you can recreate the CD with all track indexes exactly as they were. You can obviously recreate a bit identical CD from individual files also - but I just think that one image file with a cuesheet is easier - saves you having to worry about (pre-/post-)gaps and the like. Last time I said this I got roasted though. smile.gif


sPeziFisH
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 21 2005, 04:48 PM)
im new to using cdimages and cue sheets and stuff.  dont really know how it all works...  it seems alot more confusing and alot less talked about than creating individual files.
*


hmm, maybe this info is not that neccessary but I still give a quick primitive shot:

An Audio-CD consists of a TOC (table of contets), which gives informations about number of tracks and the track-starting-positions, and of audio-data of course.
You can rip an Audio-CD track for track, so each track has its own file, or as one big track, which keeps all tracks and the gaps between them - it's like playing the CD and recording all what comes out.
To get use of the big wav, which covers the whole audio-content, you are using this cuesheet, which is nothing more than a text-file which keeps all the infos given through the TOC, just open the cue-file with a text-editor and you'll see what I mean.
You'll find track-numbers, start-positions (format: hh:mm:ss:ff (f ^= frame = 1/75 sec)) and gap-lengths - those are not given through a TOC, EAC (for instance) finds them out if you tells it to create an image+cue.
So you've got a big wav-file and the corresponding cue, which refers to its wav-file - look at the source-command at the start of the cue-file.
As with a lot of 'uncompressed' audio-data this wav can be compressed, to lossless using wavpack for instance.
Now I compress the big wav by e.g. wavpack and change the source-command in the cue-file from blabla.wav to blabla.wv (or to blabla.flac if FLAC is used) to refer to the new-file.
The FLAC-file-format is also able to store the infos of the corresponding cuesheet in an own TAG-field, so you could decide only to drive with this one flac-file (with embedded cuesheet) - still a matter of taste.
By time you can recompress the lossless-compressed file back to wav and extract the cuesheet if neccessary - you've got all what you had before.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(sPeziFisH @ Mar 22 2005, 02:07 PM)
The FLAC-file-format is also able to store the infos of the corresponding cuesheet in an own TAG-field, so you could decide only to drive with this one flac-file (with embedded cuesheet) - still a matter of taste.
You can also embed a cuesheet into an APEv2 tag, and Foobar will pick it up. Both Wavpack and Monkey's Audio can use APEv2 tags. I embed the cuesheet into my APE files as well as keeping the original.

If you are interested in this area my guide may be of some help. As well as covering the process I use to backup the site now has explanations covering how to extract the cuesheet from a file, and restoring an archive to CD.
sPeziFisH
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 22 2005, 07:35 AM)
If you are interested in this area ...

I guess this is addressed to VCSkier isn't it smile.gif cool.gif
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(sPeziFisH @ Mar 23 2005, 08:36 AM)
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 22 2005, 07:35 AM)
If you are interested in this area ...

I guess this is addressed to VCSkier isn't it smile.gif cool.gif

Sorry, yes. I was quoting you, but the whole response was really directed toward VCSkier.

Apologies for the confusion. smile.gif
atici
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 22 2005, 04:03 AM)
No.  I'm referring to tagging.  This is where things get confusing with FLAC.  With FLAC you can store a cuesheet in two places:

  1. The FLAC CUESHEET block
  2. A VORBIS tag called CUESHEET
I believe both are picked up by Foobar.  The FLAC CUESHEET block won't store TITLE/PERFORMER information - so if Foobar is displaying Artist/Album/Track info then you must be using a VORBIS tag.  I think.  I don't use FLAC personally, or or the Foobar database (which seems to add other issues into this mix), so I get a bit confused at this point.  I don't expect Foobar would let you edit the FLAC CUESHEET block - so that's another reason I assume you are using the VORBIS tag.

How did you get the cuesheet into the FLAC file?  (i.e.: What app did you use?)
*


I used the FLAC Frontend and followed the same method as the sticky EAC+FLAC thread in the lossless forum. I think my cuesheet is in the FLAC CUESHEET block. Is there any way to strip out the cuesheet from this block or make any changes to the FLAC file (without reencoding) so that I could use UNICODE characters? UTF-8 is also fine. Thanks for your help.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(atici @ Mar 23 2005, 03:28 PM)
Is there any way to strip out the cuesheet from this block or make any changes to the FLAC file (without reencoding) so that I could use UNICODE characters? UTF-8 is also fine. Thanks for your help.

Use METAFLAC's "--export-cuesheet-to" switch to get the cuesheet out to a file.

I guess you would use METAFLAC to remove it also - I assume (I don't use FLAC) you would use the "--remove-tag" switch.

Edit2: I would ensure that it is removed before attempting to create a VORBIS tag - otherwise things will get way too confusing. The easiest way to test I guess, apart from METAFLAC, would be to drag the FLAC into Foobar and see if it is listed as one track, or many.

Edit: ... and to create a UTF-8/VORBIS tag version just pull the FLAC into Foobar, add a tag called "CUESHEET", and paste in the cuesheet contents.

An alternative to add the VORBIS tag would be to use my version of TAG and do:

TAG.EXE -f "CUESHEET=<path to cuesheet>" "<path to flac>"
VCSkier
hmmm, unfortunately, im still confused. i'd like to create wavpack lossless images of my cds (for storage on a hdd), preferably with the embedded cuesheets, preferably with tagging information included, and preferably using only eac and foobar, in artist titled subdirectories, as directly and simply as possible. i would really like to avoid manual data entry, or manually editing my cuesheets. im using wavpack 4.2b3, which afaik supports cmd line tagging without the wapet.exe. i found the copy image and create cue sheet / compressed... action in eac, but this dosent appear to do what i need it to do. sorry if i am asking you guys to repeat yourselves here, im just having difficulty understanding. is this stuff possible?

edit: what would my command line need to be (in eac or fb2k diskwriter)?
VCSkier
synthetic soul, after spending alot of time looking through your guide (very well written by the way), i think the step that has me the most confused is the use of your "batch files." i dont really know what batch files are. will the same batch files that you use work with the setup i am seeking (using wavpack instead)? again sorry for my ignorance...

edit: im sorry guys. the more reading and learning ive been doing, im seeing more and more clearly that alot of my questions are already answered earlier in the thread, or in your guide. i apologize. so please ignore my previous questions. they were a result of ignorance to the topic as a whole, and a degree of laziness for not reading the thread and your guide more closely. i guess my one remaining question is if you are planning on switching to wavpack becasue of its additional features anytime soon...

regardless, i really apprecieate your hard work on that guide. ive learned alot, tho it took me a while. wink.gif and again, sorry for my previous ignorant questions...
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 03:46 AM)
hmmm, unfortunately, im still confused.  i'd like to create wavpack lossless images of my cds (for storage on a hdd), preferably with the embedded cuesheets, preferably with tagging information included, and preferably using only eac and foobar, in artist titled subdirectories, as directly and simply as possible.  i would really like to avoid manual data entry, or manually editing my cuesheets.  im using wavpack 4.2b3, which afaik supports cmd line tagging without the wapet.exe.  i found the copy image and create cue sheet / compressed... action in eac, but this dosent appear to do what i need it to do.  sorry if i am asking you guys to repeat yourselves here, im just having difficulty understanding.  is this stuff possible?

edit:  what would my command line need to be (in eac or fb2k diskwriter)?

As you say, 4.2b3 will allow tagging while encoding. It also allows you to set tags from the contents of a text file (e.g.: a cuesheet). If this had been around when I started my archiving I wouldn't have needed to amend Tag to do this, and I would have been saved many sleepless nights! I would have gladly chosen WavPack over Monkey's Audio for this feature.

Until David updates the docs, this post discusses the syntax.

To extract using EAC to a compressed image with cuesheet you will use the "Copy Image & Create CUE Sheet > Compressed..." method.

First you need to set up your external compressor.
  • Open the compression options (F11).
  • Switch to the External Compression tab.
  • Check "Use external program for compression"
  • Select "User Defined Encoder" from the dropdown list
  • Enter ".wv" for the required file extension
  • Use the "Browse..." button to locate WAVPACK.EXE
  • In "Additional command line options" enter the following text:
    -hm %s %d -w "Artist=%a" -w "Album=%g" -w "Year=%y" -w "Genre=%m" -w "Cuesheet=@<path to cue/image>CDImage.wv.cue"
It is very very possible that there are better command line options out there. I don't use WavPack, but this is the command line I would try first.

Obviously you will need to replace <path to cue/image> with the path to where you are are creating the files.

Edit: I have just tested, and as suspected, EAC named the file CDImage.wv.wv. EAC doesn't like non-three character extensions (it names FLAC files CDImage.flac.flac). You may want to remove the extra ".wv" manually - to ensure the embedded cuesheet is accurate.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 07:50 AM)
synthetic soul, after spending alot of time looking through your guide (very well written by the way), i think the step that has me the most confused is the use of your "batch files." i dont really know what batch files are.  will the same batch files that you use work with the setup i am seeking (using wavpack instead)?  again sorry for my ignorance...

I use the batch files to be able to perform multiple steps. I use two to fool EAC. The first opens the second and then closes. At this time EAC renames the temporary APE file to its final name "CDImage.ape" as it believes the process has ended. However, my second batch file then waits for the rename (normally immediate) and then performs other processes.

Batch files are a DOS-like script, that allow you to execute multiple commands in sequence.

QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 07:50 AM)
edit:  im sorry guys.  the more reading and learning ive been doing, im seeing more and more clearly that alot of my questions are already answered earlier in the thread, or in your guide.  i apologize.  so please ignore my previous questions.  they were a result of ignorance to the topic as a whole, and a degree of laziness for not reading the thread and your guide more closely.

Don't worry about it. The same questions get answered on a forum day in day out - it's the nature of the beast.

It takes a lot of time and effort to research a topic that you begin knowing nothing about, and you don't always find the exact answer to a question.

That said, the more people you read, the more diverse the information you get.

QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 07:50 AM)
i guess my one remaining question is if you are planning on switching to wavpack becasue of its additional features anytime soon...

Not the immediate future. I don't know. There's an illogical part of me that wants to stay with MAC as all my current archive is in MAC. This is ridiculous really, as there is no reason why part of my archive can't be in one format and one in the other!

I wouldn't be surprised if I'm using it at the end of the year, or in 4 months time, but right now I'm thinking about other things. Too many things.


QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 07:50 AM)
regardless, i really apprecieate your hard work on that guide.  ive learned alot, tho it took me a while.  wink.gif  and again, sorry for my previous ignorant questions...

No apology required. Thank you for the feedback. It's good to hear it was of some use.
VCSkier
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 24 2005, 04:53 AM)

  • In "Additional command line options" enter the following text:
    -hm %s %d -w "Artist=%a" -w "Album=%g" -w "Year=%y" -w "Genre=%m" -w "Cuesheet=@<path to cue/image>CDImage.wv.cue"
It is very very possible that there are better command line options out there.  I don't use WavPack, but this is the command line I would try first.

Obviously you will need to replace <path to cue/image> with the path to where you are are creating the files.
*



is there a way to, at this point, instruct eac to put the image in a artist/album subdirectory?
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 04:41 PM)
is there a way to, at this point, instruct eac to put the image in a artist/album subdirectory?

I don't believe so. That's another thing my batch files do for me.

Would you like me to adapt my batch files to create one that:
  • Encodes to WavPack
  • Tags the .wv file with artist, album, year and genre tags
  • Embeds cuesheet in .wv file as cuesheet tag
  • Moves .wv, .cue and EAC log to an artist\album folder setup?
VCSkier
wow. that sounds like alot of work. yeah, a wavpack version of your files would be awsome, but dont feel like you have to. i understand you are busy and whatnot. but if you wouldn't mind doing that, i would be so grateful, and that would make things very easy for me.
VCSkier
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 24 2005, 04:53 AM)
It is very very possible that there are better command line options out there.  I don't use WavPack, but this is the command line I would try first.

Obviously you will need to replace <path to cue/image> with the path to where you are are creating the files.

Edit: I have just tested, and as suspected, EAC named the file CDImage.wv.wv.  EAC doesn't like non-three character extensions (it names FLAC files CDImage.flac.flac).  You may want to remove the extra ".wv" manually - to ensure the embedded cuesheet is accurate.
*


ive noticed talk about command lines for wavpack images in this thread and this thread. would they be helpful in creating a "better command line?" ive played around w/ a couple different combinations w/o much luck, cause again, i dont really know what im doing... your command line options seem to work, but i just that that might be helpful.
Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 25 2005, 04:49 AM)
ive noticed talk about command lines for wavpack images in this thread and this thread.  would they be helpful in creating a "better command line?"  ive played around w/ a couple different combinations w/o much luck, cause again, i dont really know what im doing...  your command line options seem to work, but i just that that might be helpful.

I don't think there's anything new/better there.

The only thing I'm unsure of is whether my switch -hm should be -h -m. It may be safer to use -h -m :

-h -m %s %d -w "Artist=%a" -w "Album=%g" -w "Year=%y" -w "Genre=%m" -w "Cuesheet=@<path to cue/image>CDImage.wv.cue"

NB: I'm just about to start work on your batch file...
Mr_Rabid_Teddybear
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 24 2005, 11:26 PM)
The only thing I'm unsure of is whether my switch -hm should be -h -m.  It may be safer to use -h -m :
*


It should be completely safe to use something like wavpack -hmt or whatever...

Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(VCSkier @ Mar 24 2005, 08:37 PM)
wow.  that sounds like alot of work.  yeah, a wavpack version of your files would be awsome, but dont feel like you have to.  i understand you are busy and whatnot.  but if you wouldn't mind doing that, i would be so grateful, and that would make things very easy for me.
*


Ok, you can download the batch files here:

http://www.neilpopham.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/eac-wv.zip

Extract the files to a folder of your choice (both in same folder).

Open eac-wv.bat in notepad and change the lines highlighted below to match your setup:

REM ######################################################
REM PLEASE EDIT THESE PATHS TO THE NECESSARY APPLICATIONS
REM =====================================================
SET pathToWavPack="C:\DOS\WAVPACK.EXE"
REM =====================================================
REM PLEASE EDIT THE PATHS TO THE STORAGE FOLDER
REM NB: If you paths below contain spaces do *not*
REM surround the path in quotes
REM =====================================================
SET rootFolder=E:Testing\Wv
REM =====================================================
REM YOU DO NOT NEED TO EDIT ANY TEXT BELOW
REM ######################################################



NB: rootFolder is the folder in which your <artist>\<album> folders will be created.

If you look at the Compression options dialogue on my site, then:

Change 3 to: .wv
Change 5 to: /c C:\DOS\eac-wv.bat %o %s %d "%a" "%g" "%m" "%y"

Note C:\DOS\ will need to be changed to the folder where you put eac-wv.bat and eac-wv2.bat. If that path contains spaces you will need to surround the path in quotes, e.g.:

/c "C:\My Folder\eac-wv.bat" %o %s %d "%a" "%g" "%m" "%y"


These batch files will:
  • Encode to Wavpack, tagging the file with Artist, Album, Genre and Year info.
  • Embed the cuesheet in the wv file
  • Pause and ask you to close EAC's completion dialogue
  • Wait for EAC to rename the file to <name>.wv.wv (CDImage.wv.wv)
  • Wait for EAC to create it's log file
  • Rename <name>.wv.wv to <name>.wv (CDImage.wv)
  • Move all files in the folder into an <artist>\<album> structure with the root of <rootFolder> (see above)

VCSkier
you are so awsome. that is so helpful! thank you so much. i dont have the time to test it out now, beacuse im late for class, but i can't wait to give it a try this afternoon. thanks again so much!
Mr_Rabid_Teddybear
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 25 2005, 01:57 AM)
These batch files will:

  • Encode to Wavpack, tagging the file with Artist, Album, Genre and Year info.
  • Embed the cuesheet in the wv file
  • Pause and ask you to close EAC's completion dialogue
  • Wait for EAC to rename the file to <name>.wv.wv (CDImage.wv.wv)
  • Wait for EAC to create it's log file
  • Rename <name>.wv.wv to <name>.wv (CDImage.wv)
  • Move all files in the folder into an <artist>\<album> structure with the root of <rootFolder> (see above)

*


- Are the inclusion of ARTIST and ALBUM fields necessary, as they get included with EAC's cuesheet in CUESHEET field? I rip my WavPack images with only GENRE, YEAR and ENCODEDBY, then I embed CUESHEET and LOGFILE fields.
- Would it be possible to additionally have log file automatically embedded in LOGFILE field?

Synthetic Soul
QUOTE(Mr_Rabid_Teddybear @ Mar 25 2005, 02:12 PM)
- Are the inclusion of ARTIST and ALBUM fields necessary, as they get included with EAC's cuesheet in CUESHEET field? I rip my WavPack images with only GENRE, YEAR and ENCODEDBY, then I embed CUESHEET and LOGFILE fields.

I guess not. Personally I don't bother with genre or year (I just do Artist, Album, and Cuesheet). I supposed you could say those tags are useful for tagging apps that don't display bespoke tags like CUESHEET or LOGFILE.

QUOTE(Mr_Rabid_Teddybear @ Mar 25 2005, 02:12 PM)
Would it be possible to additionally have log file automatically embedded in LOGFILE field?

Yes, I would probably use Tag to do this. Something like:

%pathToTag% -f "LOGFILE=%~dp3%logFilename%" "%~dp3%~n1%~x3"

With "pathToTag" being set in eac-wv.bat.

I could add this feature if you want.

Edit: In fact, you can download it here:

http://www.neilpopham.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/eac-wv-2.zip

You will need to set pathToTag in eac-wv.bat, as you do pathToWavPack (see above)
  • Encode to Wavpack, tagging the file with Artist, Album, Genre and Year info.
  • Embed the cuesheet in the wv file
  • Pause and ask you to close EAC's completion dialogue
  • Wait for EAC to rename the file to <name>.wv.wv (CDImage.wv.wv)
  • Wait for EAC to create it's log file
  • Use Tag to embed EAC logfile in LOGFILE tag
  • Rename <name>.wv.wv to <name>.wv (CDImage.wv)
  • Move all files in the folder into an <artist>\<album> structure with the root of <rootFolder> (see above)
Mr_Rabid_Teddybear
QUOTE(Synthetic Soul @ Mar 25 2005, 11:34 AM)
I could add this feature if you want.
*


Well, that would have been super cool.gif ... smile.gif

Synthetic Soul
See edited post above.
VCSkier
its not seeming to work for me. after eac extracts everything, a black command prompt window pops up for a second saying something like "c:\program is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program, or batch file." it is only visible for a brief second, so im not quite sure, but i think thats what it says. i believe i have everything set up as you recommended. what am i doing wrong?
Synthetic Soul
What are your "command line options"?

Are eac-wv.bat and eac-wvp.bat definately in the folder specified in your command line options?

If you have put eac-wv.bat and eac-wvp.bat in a folder with a path with spaces in try moving them to the C:\ drive, so your command line options would begin:

/c C:\eac-wv.bat ...

(I have had mixed results using paths with spaces... but randomly)

These files definately work for me (Win 2K).

Sorry it didn't work first time. sad.gif

In fact, for added safety, you could even try putting eac-wv.bat and eac-wvp.bat in system32, so your command line options would begin:

/c C:\WINNT\system32\eac-wv.bat ...

Best of luck
VCSkier
my command line is now
CODE
/c "C:\WINDOWS\system32\eac-wv.bat" %o %s %d "%a" "%g" "%m" "%y"
both tag.exe and wavpack.exe are in "c:\program files\exact audio copy." should these be moved to system32 also? in eac-wv.bat, the paths to both of these are in qoutes, beacuse there are spaces in the path. is that right?

also, does it matter where i tell eac to save the image and cuesheet? because your batch file moves it anyway, right?

anyways, thanks for the help
VCSkier
now the error message reads something to the effect of "the filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect."

edit: corrected message
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