ok, so i have to do a simple video with some text overlayed in something that will be nicely streamable by that helix server thingy...., anyway turns out i will simply use bg video and static overlay text - that will change over time + some audio fx.
------------
the questions:
a. proper authoring/encoding tool (video encoding part must be done in a multistream way)
b. obviously i want the text to stay on separate 'channel' - not destroyed by video compression, i guess that is possible?
c. what tools, what kind of 'codecs' are there?
c2. like, will something like this do fine for the entire authoring/encoding process?
http://www.realnetworks.com/products/presenterone/index.html
Full Version: for some 'real' experts?
I'm not sure this totally answers your questions, but it may be worth taking a look:
http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/00/41...ml?tw=authoring
http://service.real.com/help/library/guide...xt/realtext.htm
I did have a play ages ago, with both Real and Windows Media - I'm pretty sure I used Real Text to get the subtitles. I used the E3 trailer for Silent Hill 3 as my test video, and just added an alpa transparent subtitle layer.
I think with Windows Media I used SAMI for captioning ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default....samiarticle.asp )
It's kinda like building a cuesheet if I recall.
http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/00/41...ml?tw=authoring
http://service.real.com/help/library/guide...xt/realtext.htm
I did have a play ages ago, with both Real and Windows Media - I'm pretty sure I used Real Text to get the subtitles. I used the E3 trailer for Silent Hill 3 as my test video, and just added an alpa transparent subtitle layer.
I think with Windows Media I used SAMI for captioning ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default....samiarticle.asp )
It's kinda like building a cuesheet if I recall.
I'm pretty sure I used Real Text to get the subtitles. I used the E3 trailer for Silent Hill 3 as my test video, and just added an alpa transparent subtitle layer. i cant find a single working example, and so far all my 'coding' efforts are useless. 
QUOTE(smok3 @ Dec 1 2004, 01:10 PM)
I'm pretty sure I used Real Text to get the subtitles. I used the E3 trailer for Silent Hill 3 as my test video, and just added an alpa transparent subtitle layer. i cant find a single working example, and so far all my 'coding' efforts are useless.
It took a while but I've found my tests! (well, where they were deployed, not the local files 
) Oh, and it's Silent Hill 2, not 3.They are running on a client's media server, but I think it will be fine.
Here's the Real version, which is best: Real Text/SMIL Demo (link removed 07/12/04)
I'll see if one of the server guys will get me the files from the server so I can post what was used to run this.
NB: Once you've seen the demo I may well remove the above URL, or I may get in trouble
Edit: A potentially useful link: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/
OK, I've got the files locally now. There are three:
sh2-e3-trailer.smil
You will see from the link above to the live test that you actually link to the smil file.
I hope this is of some help. I'm sure there are other options, but I think this is reasonably simple to put together, and the resulting effect is quite aceptable.
- sh2-e3-trailer.rm - the movie
- sh2-e3-trailer.rt - the Real Text file
- sh2-e3-trailer.smil - the SMILE file, that links the other two together
CODE
<window bgcolor="#400020" extraspaces="ignore" width="360" height="18">
<center>
<font color="white" face="Arial" size="+0">
<time begin="3.8"/><clear/>James, honey.
<time begin="5"/><clear/>Did something happen to you...
<time begin="7.5"/><clear/>... after we got separated in that long halllway?
<time begin="10"/><clear/>
<time begin="13.5"/><clear/>Are you confusing me with someone else?
<time begin="18"/><clear/>(laughs)
<time begin="21"/><clear/>You were always so forgetful.
<time begin="23.5"/><clear/>Remember that time in the hotel?
<time begin="27"/><clear/>You said you took everything...
<time begin="29"/><clear/>... but you forgot that videotape we made.
<time begin="33"/><clear/>
<time begin="33.5"/><clear/>I wonder if it's still there...
<time begin="36"/><clear/>
<time begin="43.2"/><clear/>I'm not your Mary.
<time begin="45.5"/><clear/>
</font>
</center>
</window>
<center>
<font color="white" face="Arial" size="+0">
<time begin="3.8"/><clear/>James, honey.
<time begin="5"/><clear/>Did something happen to you...
<time begin="7.5"/><clear/>... after we got separated in that long halllway?
<time begin="10"/><clear/>
<time begin="13.5"/><clear/>Are you confusing me with someone else?
<time begin="18"/><clear/>(laughs)
<time begin="21"/><clear/>You were always so forgetful.
<time begin="23.5"/><clear/>Remember that time in the hotel?
<time begin="27"/><clear/>You said you took everything...
<time begin="29"/><clear/>... but you forgot that videotape we made.
<time begin="33"/><clear/>
<time begin="33.5"/><clear/>I wonder if it's still there...
<time begin="36"/><clear/>
<time begin="43.2"/><clear/>I'm not your Mary.
<time begin="45.5"/><clear/>
</font>
</center>
</window>
sh2-e3-trailer.smil
CODE
<smil
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language"
xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">
<head>
<layout>
<root-layout width="360px" height="288px"/>
<region id="video-content" width="360px" height="288px" top="0px" left="0px" right="0px"/>
<region id="subtitles" width="340px" height="18px" bottom="32px" left="10px" right="10px"/>
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video region="video-content" src="sh2-e3-trailer.rm"/>
<textstream region="subtitles" src="sh2-e3-trailer.rt" rn:backgroundOpacity="50%"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language"
xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">
<head>
<layout>
<root-layout width="360px" height="288px"/>
<region id="video-content" width="360px" height="288px" top="0px" left="0px" right="0px"/>
<region id="subtitles" width="340px" height="18px" bottom="32px" left="10px" right="10px"/>
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video region="video-content" src="sh2-e3-trailer.rm"/>
<textstream region="subtitles" src="sh2-e3-trailer.rt" rn:backgroundOpacity="50%"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>
You will see from the link above to the live test that you actually link to the smil file.
I hope this is of some help. I'm sure there are other options, but I think this is reasonably simple to put together, and the resulting effect is quite aceptable.
Synthetic Soul, tnx a lot for your time, i was stuffing that transparency definition to all the wrong places..., still at the end the result isnt that cool, example:
http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/test.smil
edit: looks good without opacity:
http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_noopacity/test.smil
/edit
(is there anything one could do to get some sort of antialiasing or something, or is that it?)
my smil looks like this now:
http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/test.smil
edit: looks good without opacity:
http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_noopacity/test.smil
/edit
(is there anything one could do to get some sort of antialiasing or something, or is that it?)
my smil looks like this now:
CODE
<smil xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language"
xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">
<head>
<!-- Presentation attributes. -->
<meta name="title" content="Video and Ad Template"/>
<meta name="author" content="RealNetworks, Inc."/>
<meta name="copyright" content="(c) 1998"/>
<layout>
<!--The root-layout sets the height and width of the entire presentation
in pixels. Each region sets specific areas in the presentation
that media will play to -->
<root-layout width="512" height="384" />
<region id="video_region" width="512" height="384" left="0" top="0" />
<region id="textual" width="512" height="384" left="10" top="10" />
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<!-- Each line between the tags is a media file which will play to a
specified region. The tags mean that they will play at the same
time (in parallel). Fill="freeze" means that the final frame will stay
visible when that media file is done. -->
<par>
<video src="http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/voda.rm" region="video_region" />
<textstream src="http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/real.rt" region="textual" rn:backgroundOpacity="40%" />
</par>
</body>
</smil>
xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">
<head>
<!-- Presentation attributes. -->
<meta name="title" content="Video and Ad Template"/>
<meta name="author" content="RealNetworks, Inc."/>
<meta name="copyright" content="(c) 1998"/>
<layout>
<!--The root-layout sets the height and width of the entire presentation
in pixels. Each region sets specific areas in the presentation
that media will play to -->
<root-layout width="512" height="384" />
<region id="video_region" width="512" height="384" left="0" top="0" />
<region id="textual" width="512" height="384" left="10" top="10" />
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<!-- Each line between the tags is a media file which will play to a
specified region. The tags mean that they will play at the same
time (in parallel). Fill="freeze" means that the final frame will stay
visible when that media file is done. -->
<par>
<video src="http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/voda.rm" region="video_region" />
<textstream src="http://somestuff.org/tmp/realtext_opacity/real.rt" region="textual" rn:backgroundOpacity="40%" />
</par>
</body>
</smil>
I'm by no means an expert - the Silent Hill demo is my sole experience, and that must have been quite some time ago. However...
I don't think you will get antialiasing by using this type of technique, as it is just HTML/text information (i.e.: an HTML layer). I've had a quick skim over the Real Text reference and have seen no mention. Smaller fonts shouldn't really be antialiased, as they lose clarity - although I agree they can look pixilated and ugly at times. Urgh. I've just seen what happens when you zoom the window x2 or fullscreen. Not pleasant. This may be a stumbling block if you have to run at fullscreen.
I guess (please see disclaimer above), if you wanted antialiasing, you would need to add subtitles to the video in something like Premiere - but then you lose the dual stream thing, and the flexibility to amend the text and sequencing in notepad.
Personally, I think your opaque example would look fine with a black background - with as little transparency as you can get away with (i.e.: just enough to ensure that the white text can be read on a (near-)white image).
I prefer the text coming up line by line, as in my example, as this lessens the area of video obscured by text - but obviously you are restricted by what you are required to achieve (which I have no idea of).
It's possible you could do something in Flash - but I don't know whether you could sync text video, in which case you'd be back to merging the two layers in Premiere.
I'm sorry I can't be more "expert"!
I don't think you will get antialiasing by using this type of technique, as it is just HTML/text information (i.e.: an HTML layer). I've had a quick skim over the Real Text reference and have seen no mention. Smaller fonts shouldn't really be antialiased, as they lose clarity - although I agree they can look pixilated and ugly at times. Urgh. I've just seen what happens when you zoom the window x2 or fullscreen. Not pleasant. This may be a stumbling block if you have to run at fullscreen.
I guess (please see disclaimer above), if you wanted antialiasing, you would need to add subtitles to the video in something like Premiere - but then you lose the dual stream thing, and the flexibility to amend the text and sequencing in notepad.
Personally, I think your opaque example would look fine with a black background - with as little transparency as you can get away with (i.e.: just enough to ensure that the white text can be read on a (near-)white image).
I prefer the text coming up line by line, as in my example, as this lessens the area of video obscured by text - but obviously you are restricted by what you are required to achieve (which I have no idea of).
It's possible you could do something in Flash - but I don't know whether you could sync text video, in which case you'd be back to merging the two layers in Premiere.
I'm sorry I can't be more "expert"!
QUOTE
I guess (please see disclaimer above), if you wanted antialiasing, you would need to add subtitles to the video in something like Premiere
sure, thats how i did it in the 1st place, does look good until it hits that lowbitrate real encoder 
QUOTE
It's possible you could do something in Flash - but I don't know whether you could sync text video, in which case you'd be back to merging the two layers in Premiere.
yeah, thought i didnt find a single note that it is possible to merry flash and video, so most likely it is not possible.
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