I hope, you has not burnt out your tweeters... This piece of s...ound overloads amplifiers and speakers on ultrahigh frequencies and then while you does not hear anything your equipment is going to a garbage collector...

Lately while listen to music online foobar stops playing music and then about 5secs. later if I do not close foobar it will freeze my computer since foobar starts using 100% cpu usage. And its so bad you can not even open task manager to close it.

Not sure if its this plugin or foo_out_dsound_ex2.

If you can reproduce this behaviour, try to decrease priority of playback thread (Preferences -> Playback: Playback thread priority) to prevent freezing, and then locate exact place of problem code using SysInternals Process Explorer.

Have you tried deactivating channel_mixer or using another output plugin or both? If the problem persists, it is unlikely any of these two is the culprit.

Well, I will try that skipyrich.

Gecho, yeah I tried deactivating and no longer happens so must be the plugin sadly. Been listen for 38min and still no crash so.

Well going to sleep. Have school in a few hours.

Will try again later.

7C90EB94 ret

Well ok damn it crashed again evenwithout plugin so guess thats not it after all.

Trid doing like you said but no luck. Could not even even bring the window up since it locks winxp up so bad.

Well I've given up trying to figure it out.

Switching back to winamp until foobar .9 goes RTM.

Hello.. again.
Skipyrich.. nice work.. many thanks..
I want to ask you to do something that might be sounding weird.
Here's the situation: I'm using a USB soundcard (particularly Audiotrak Maya EX7): that's a 7.1 channel USB soundcard. When I use your plugin I lose the control of volume; setting "mute" from the Windows sound card volume has no effect either.
Your plugin gives the possibility of modifying the volume for rear, center and subwoofer; they work great. I wish there would be a "front" volume control too.
One other thing: I'm using a modified Win98SE.
I'm waiting for your kind fix

Hello

I have a 2.1 stereo + subwoofer system, and my sources are stereo.

How to configure channel mixer to redirect the bass part of stereo sources on my second stereo output?

You can use standard DSP Volume Control...

I think you can't do this with foobar at all...

Just wanted to say this is a great plugin.

I had 2 questions about the channel mixing.

First, you said in the 1st post that the delay on the rear channels is 1-40 ms. Why the variance?

Second, how do you get the center channel? Is it possible to take more of the mono dialog out of the left and right channels and send it just to the center?

Thanks again, Rock on.

Just I did not update the description of the plugin for a long time...
You can adjust delay for any channel by 0-100ms.


The center channel is simply the sum of the side channels. With the current method of the surround upmix it is impossible to separate channels exactly. Take look at ATSurround plugin that use another method of upmix.

Thanks for the info and the quick response

What about surround sound effect in comparison with DPLII?

Forgive for a delay, the computer was inaccessible to me for a month.


I did not compare these methods.

Are we going to see support for 0.9 ? pweese

SDK use vs2005 as development platform. I'm trying to convert its projects to vs2003 by hands...

Neat, got an ETA?

(we're so demanding :] )

vs2003 can't compile the new SDK therefore I need vs2005. I don't know when I'll get it... If vs2005 Express can compile SDK and WTL, results will be on the next week...

I think you can get a version of it from microsoft free.

Or there's warez.

fetching VC.iso: 3% done, 35 hours left

Hello!

First of all, thank you so much for this wonderful plugin!

Due to my audio-speaker system i need a plugin that

1) either simply adds the LFE signal to the FR and FL channels
2) or redirects the low-frequency part of the FR and FL channels to the LFE channel

The channel-mixer plugin should be able to do that, but during my tests, i experienced the following problems:

To solve problem 1) i tried the following: set output channels to 5, activate downmix. As a result, the LFE channel really is added to the other speakers, BUT the rear-right channel remains dead! I tested it on different 5.1 sources and it always remained silent. Without downmix, the RR speaker works correctly.

To manage problem 2) i tried: set output channels to 6, use subwoofer, send to subwoofer from 5.1 sources: all channels, bass redirection: full redirection. Now the low-frequency part really is redirected from the front speakers to the subwoofer BUT the LFE channel is missing. It seems that the option "all channels" doesn't include the LFE channel, is this correct?

So, unfortunately, both problems cannot be solved with the cannel-mixer, or did i make a mistake ? Help would really be appreciated

Thank's a lot!
Dalen

Thank you for your report. I'll try to solve these problems while porting the plugin to the new SDK.

Hello skipyrich. I sent you an e-mail before I noticed the updates to your thread here.

I have three requests, but nothing too important in the long run. I mainly use your plugin for channel delay and not much else, so I'll be happy with just that. =)

1) Would you be able to update your plugin to work with the full 18 set of channels (TFL/TFC/TFR/FL/FLC/FC/FCR/FR/TC/SL/LFR/SR/TBL/TBC/TBR/BL/BC/BR)? This would be the most fantastic as you could properly calibrate all possible speakers in room with proper delays. I don't have that many ouputs just yet myself, but in the future, doing so will become much easier. The support is there, and being able to go from 5.1 -> higher configurations would be not only unique, but a highly sought after option, even if you only allow duplicating certain channels onto others or mapping them around.

2) Per-channel attenuation/volume reduction, for the situation where you have speakers of differing sensitivity used on an amplifer that does not offer such controls (or when combining different amplifiers). This is all rather unnecessary, but it could save some cheap bastard such as myself some money. ;^)

3) Provide an option to matrix downmix/convert multi-channel audio to 2-channel using DPL/DPLII ... Some DPLII encoding source was recently made available someplace as well. Doom9 forumes possibly? I believe that the AC3Filter code provides such as well. The idea here is that you could use the channel mixer when either burning (outputting to 2-ch WAV or foo_burninat'ing) so the CD would have multichannel data when played back on a DPLII enabled system or player.

Just some suggestions, thanks man.

PS - I was able to get the SDK compiling and producing working binaries using the MSVC8 Express release. I'm not a C++ programmer myself, so I'm going to have a lot to learn, but it is nice to know that it works.

I sent you the answer, but the server has reported, that the address is incorrect.


I believe, it is idea for the new plugin, that will simply dub the existing channels, since no algorithms that could allow to scatter a stereosignal onto 18 channels.


That possibility requires new design of plugin, maybe in Channel Mixer 3.0


Neither sources, nor algorithms of DPLII is available. AC3Filter: "DPLII support is only experimental because of lack of reliable information."
Anyway, I don't like FFT filtering, that required to software DPLII. Try ATSurround instead.

That's more than enough. Duplicating channel output after your processing shouldn't be any problem for the purposes of this plugin. Being able to dub the output onto the extra channels is more than sufficient. It would be great since the 0.9 release now sends the logical channel information with the output if it would just be possible to move the channels around or at least activate channels that would otherwise be unused.


No problem -- I wasn't aware it could put DPLII information on a 2-channel stream that was downmixed from a multichannel source. I should chcek it out. Anyway, I have used the DPLII support as it exists in AC3Filter, and I can tell you that it does work rather quite decently. If you have spare time it might be interesting to look into the source as it exists now, but it is, of course, not a big deal at all. Might be a better choice for a new plugin, however. Maybe I should work on it and learn something ...

Thanks for supporting your plugin.

cant wait for the updated version its keeping me from making the switch on my main rig........

Channel Mixer 0.9.3 preview for foobar2000 0.9.

This is a preview version for testing purposes only, no profiles as well.

Download and version history:
http://www.skipyrich.com/foobar/foo_channel_mixer.ptml

Works great for me, thanks so much! This was one of my favorite plugins in 8.3, and once it has profiles it'll be perfect. Thanks for you hard work!

Just installed and it seems to be working, will have to try and verify all the other features. Thanks very much.

working well for me to.

Nice one.

Wonderful! Thank You!

After some subwoofer volume tweaking (Audigy 2 and Channel Mixer subwoofer levels seem to "add up") it works great! I didn't even notice the center speaker was mute before - now suddenly everything sounds like crap when not using Channel Mixer. Imagine what I missed all the months!

THANK YOU skipyrich!

edit...
Note to self: NEVER do subwoofer volume tweaking at 4 AM in a dormitory!

TNX, skipyrich
great plugin and it works fine

How do I install it? Sorry I am a newbie to fubar2000. I liked it but was unable to get 5.1 sound and found this plug-in. But the .dll download does not work for 0.9. Neither does the '7z' file. I am using xp pro sp2.

I tried AT surround. While that works, it alters the sound quite adversely.

1. Extract foo_channel_mixer.dll into your foobar2000\components folder
2. (Re-)start foobar2000
3. Open Preferences (Ctrl-P)
4. Go to Playback -> DSP Manager
5. Add "Channel Mixer" to your Active DSPs

edit:
The .7z file is a GNU-licensed compression archive. You need this or WinRAR for un7zipping.
The .zip file won't work, as it's the version for foobar2000 0.8.3

6. Don't forget to configure Channel Mixer

Version: 0.9.4

- added: Profiles. NOTE: Any changes applies only if you press OK button.
- fixed: Some interface problems.

Plugin download and version history:
http://www.skipyrich.com/foobar/foo_channel_mixer.ptml

Thank you very much for this nice update!

Thanks. Will try it and report.

Hi,
first I have a suggestion for channel mixer plugin. How about a matrix like in AC3-filter?
AC3 Filter
It would be much easer to config your plugin! And much more powerful because you can e.g. give every output channel the amount of LFE you want. (of course high frequenzies have to be cut off first - low pass filter? - if impossible forget my suggestion)

next two problems I experience with channel mixer 0.9.4 + foobar 0.9.
Soundcard is a Soundblaster Live 5.1 Platinum, kX Audio Driver 3538j
a) when I choose 6channel in general tab everything works fine. But when I choose 5 channels center-option does not work, center is always off
b) 6channel choosed, but e.g. front-speakers disabled. Then choosing "copy" in upmix-tab: Frontspeakers start playing!

a) This seems to be a "normal behaviour, but buggy interface" case. I think 5 channel mode is intended for 4.1 speaker setups, so there would be no point in sending a center speaker signal, as there is no center speaker. However, assuming this premise is correct, the wrong option is greyed out when selecting 5 channel mode. While the center option is still switchable (but has no effect), the LFE option is disabled.
@skipyrich: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

b) When upmix is in "Copy" mode, there are some strange results when experimenting with the channels. For example, switching both left channels off has no effect in 5 or 6 channel mode, whereas with 4 channel mode the left side is muted correctly. In fact, in 5 or 6 channel mode it doesn't even matter at all which channels are switched on or off, with the exception of the LFE.
However, when in "Surround" mode, correct upmix results are achieved with every channel configuration. Channel switching also works perfectly with original 5.1 sources, no matter if it's downmixed (for 2 channel mode) or not.

Maybe in next generation of plugin...




You're right in case of foobar2000 0.9. In 0.8.3 5-channel mode output is L/R/C/LFE/RL.
I never tested this mode before...
In other hand, in 5-channel sample sent by Borisz channel configuration is L/R/C/RL/RR.
Has anyone have another samples or specs?




Will be fixed soon.

2Infernus 2Silversight: Thank you for your reports.

Kind of a funny setup.


I only found AC3 files with the same channels, and I doubt there are many other 5-channel configurations, as L/R/C/RL/RR is pretty much the only way to maintain "true" 5.1 playback with a 5-channel sample. As the LFE doesn't need positional information, it can be lowpass-derived from the other channels without great loss and thus can leave a free channel for the center signal.

The problem is that the 5 channels provided by these AC3 files (despite the fact that AC3 is capable of 6 channels) are not the same channels as those a typical user of 5-channel mode has speakers for. That typical 5-channel mode user has a 4.1 speaker system (I assume this, though I have no statistical evidence; I've just never heard of a 5.0 speaker system) and no use for a center signal, so even for 5-channel mode a 5-channel source has to be re-mixed. My suggestion is to leave LFE enabled in 5-channel mode - as its users most likely do have subwoofers - and mix the otherwise unusable center signal into the L/R channels.
In that context, maybe it could also help to rename the modes according to the speaker setups they are best suited for - for example: 1, 2.0/2.1, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.1/more.


You're welcome! Thank you for your efforts.

edit:
As for me, I have a 5.1 speaker system.

edit 2:
As for samples: Some free AC3 music tracks can be downloaded here.

A Question.

I have the following order (from top to bottom) in my DSP manager:

• Resampler
• Channel Mixer
• Advanced Limiter

Is this order appropriate or better to be changed?

It's OK.

Hi. Do you plan to support new DSP Presets feature, that was introduced in new foobar2000 beta?

And another question: what values should I use for "Rear in front" and "Front in rear"? Should they sum to 1.00 ?? I've discovered, that (on my 5.1 sound system), it's the best when i use smth about 1.6 / 0.9 - but I think I'm doing something wrong

It's already done. Therefore, you can't hear changes in realtime, but you can use different setups for playback and converting.


Your setup is for widening the stereobase.
The "correct" setup is FIR=0, RIF=1.0, but there are no "correctness" of a sound after Channel Mixer surround upmixing - stereo sound must be heard on 2-channels system at all, therefore use such setup, which is comfortable for you.

Can annyone recommand some settings for a 5.1. Teufel Magnum M System? Right now I can't access it. But in one week university starts again - then I'll play around ab it

Yes. Works quite well. I think this is a tad better in overall sound as well as complete control over each channel as compared to Creative's CMSS 3D, though I feel Winamp+CMSS is a tad cleaner. But this might just make me switch. Thanks Skipyrich and all who helped. I will try out some further settings later today.

How does Foobar bypass Creative's processing? Even with foo_channel_mixer, if I set 2 speakers for normal stereo, I need to enable bass redirection in Creative Speaker settings. If I set it to 6 ch, I actually need to disable the bass redirection in Creative Speaker settings to get the sub to work.

bass redirection in the creative speaker settings? i have the panel in front of me, and even i don't see what you mean
anyway, the cleanliness may be obtained by lowering the 'rear in front' and 'front in rear' values to very low ones (it actually causes saturation even at medium volume levels for some (soprano) arias, and it isn't my speakerset that's crappy).. anyway, the whole point of this is that you get it to upmix/duplicate (though i prefer the 'surround' feature on the channel mixer to the cmss-3d 'upmix' feature, as the stereo image adjustment does jack shit in the Creative version, while it works just fine in foo_channel_mixer)

anyway, cmss-3d only works on 2-channel audio.. so if you get foobar to upmix it to 6-ch audio already it'll be bypassed..

anyway, my original intention was to ask skipy if the 'front in rear' and 'rear in front' really are supposed to cause saturation (the total gain seems a bit much even at .75 level for both of them).. either that or explain the workings of them a bit better (it saturates at 50% volume on my speakers with them both at .8 while the song with FiR+RiF on 0 it doesn't even saturate at 90% max speaker volume)

thanks for the plugin

I'm afraid that my English will not allow me to clearly explain this thing, but I'll try...
The principle of surround upmix is to move "out-of-phase" signal from the front speakers to the rear. I.e.:
make center channel by removing out-of-phase signal from L/R:
C=(L+R)/2
extract out-of-phase signal from L/R then send it to RL/RR:
RL = L-C
RR = R-C
That's all, nothing more!
But the sound in RL/RR channels is too dry and inexpressive, therefore I have added two additional settings: "front in rear" and "rear in front". FiR controls how many of initial signal will be in rear channels. RiF controls how many of extracted signal will be in front channels. I.e.:
L = L-RL*(1-RiF)
R = R-RR*(1-RiF)
RL = RL+L*FiR
RR = RR+R*FiR
If you set RiF to '0', then you will receive just mono signal in front speakers:
L = L-RL => L-(L-C) => C
R = R-RR => R-(R-C) => C
If you set FiR to '1', then you will receive expanded stereo in rear speakers:
RL = RL+L*FiR => 2L-C
RR = RR+R*FiR => 2R-C

My favorite settings is: FiR=0.3, RiF=0.7