Recently, just try encoding to AVC
these are the only h264 vfw i can find!!!

- Videosoft H264 MAin
- Mpegable AVC
- x264

For 1 CD rip, xvid (which is the best ASP codec) with
- 2 max consecutive b-frames
- trellis quantization
- H.263
- VHQ - 4.wide
- Motion search : Ultra High
- VHQ for b-frames too

can't compete with Videosoft's H264 "main profile without b-frames" at all!!
Very impressive result! And I'm very surprise....H264 preserve more detail than
xvid and much less blocks

x264 is also good but there is no bitrate mode, too bad

nah, Mpegable is a plain bullshit, encodes slower and look worse than xvid :


This is the first time I've seen a codec that can beat VP6 at such low bitrate

Is H264 recommended right now?

(oh yeah, I've forgotten, I still have 4 more days to test the Videosoft's encoder
oh man, 5 days demo!!!! they should at least offer 14 days demo)

Is Videosoft's AVC a reference encoder or tuned encoder?

x264, where can i get the newest version? 2-pass?


I can hardly find information about H264's container actually, I simply put
the AVC into MKV? is it OK.......not even mentioned in Doom9.org

The container for H.264 should be MP4 by default.
It should be possible to put it into another one relatively easily because of the NAL units decomposition.
An example is H.264 into MPEG-2 TS for DVB.

Regarding encoders, if you can accept a non-vfw interface, I'd suggest you to try the Nero one.

x264's VFW frontend hasn't been updated in ages. I would suggest a recent version of ffdshow, it has a bitrate mode and supports 2 passes. Although not like other ffdshow codecs. Other option is mencoder.

Haal's splitter I believe supports native AVC/h.264 in MKV, just not way currently to mux it.

moonlight and others I believe use mpg as a container.

oh, I've downloaded the latest nero vision express a few weeks ago, and i find no AVC???



actually I can save vfw's AVC into MKV using virtualdubmod, I'm just asking if MKV actually support AVC in their specs? Is it supported?

any other container besides mp4? I have no idea how to mux avc which is saved in avi to mp4!

Virtualdubmod only supports ogm and mkv only!

and the audio is encoded into vorbis, I don't think it's a good idea to mux vorbis and avc into mp4, right?

thanks

MKV supports any VFW codec. I am talking about native AVC streams, so no screwing around with bframes, etc. Simply take say a Nero AVC mpg and remux to mkv.

mp4creator can mux AVC into mp4, last time I checked it didn't work with --allow-avi-input or whatever the option is. You need to run avi2raw, then mux or simply create the raw stream in the first place.

Nero enables and disables features depending on your serial.

mp4box should be able to mux vorbis into your AVC mp4. As you say probably not a good idea though.

Hi, I am surprised that you found VideoSoft's encoder to be pretty good. When I tested it, it was terrible. In low motion scenes it looks awesome. But it has some serious scene change issues and as soon as you encode a high motion scene it looks like a pastel drawing. It also seems to have some serious bitrate control problems. I am not at all surprised about your results with mpegable though.

About remuxing H.264 to mkv, I would strongly caution against this at this point. I believe as someone said before that Haali's filter can demux h.264 in mkv and there is experimental support for it in mkvmerge. However all this stuff is experimental. Also, there is a serious lack of decoders which can connect to Haali's splitter. The Nero decoder cannot so that rules out making any movies with bframes or weighted prediction. I believe ffdshow can connect to Haali's splitter but it doesn't support bframes and weighted prediction. Although I believe bframe support is on the way.

Doom9 has just published his annual test, including many AVC encoders:
http://www.doom9.org/codecs-104-1.htm

According to his experience, XviD is better (and faster).

Hi, guruboolez! Nice you see you around here. I think in the doom9 test, XviD had the best quality : speed ratio. The Nero Digital Codecs were rated the highest overall for quality though.

i thought they have 30-days trial? they won't let user test AVC in their trial version?



Previously, I just test a short clip cut out from the full
length movie, I use CBR for AVC, xvid, vp6

AVC turn out to be the best,

but this time xvid looked MUCH better in full length movie!!xvid 2-pass worked
like a charm

on the other hand, videosoft's 2-pass is worthless, videosoft
still uses ABR to encode the 2nd pass?? I'm not usre, don't
really know how to use because there is no option to load
the 1st pass log file in videosoft!!!

Exact. Sorry, I've misunderstood the conclusion :

I've first understand something like "I [doom9] had to give it back [=again]".


Thanks for having correcting my error

if you wanna use AVC, then forget about .avi, because today there is no good vfw h264 codec. (and i doubt it will exist: i wouldn't put my cards on ffmpeg/mencoder (x264) stuff...so far it has been rather dissapointing in the quality aspect).


if nero avc won in doom9 AND mine test
( http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=29845 )
i think that alone speaks volumes.



unfortunetaly, it's rather slow too.

Reportedly Doom9 used the version which is going to be released in Nero's January bundle and it is said to be 20% faster than current version.

after several testing on vfw AVC

they are all inferior to xvid's 2-pass

Videosoft's is terrible when scene changes, so blocky

x264 1-pass CBR is quite good,
as a CBR, it does not have serious blocks when scene changes
quite close to xvid 2pass, but smooth images more than XviD!

it looks like current best free encoder is still XviD!


nero AVC, need to pay a big ammount of money, I don't think i have
it....so just have to forget about it...too bad



anyway, what's Quarter pixel, Global mation compensation?
will they improve quality?

I've tested Quarter Pixel together with GMC once, (2003 builds)
it makes static backgroud looks like moving mist!!

From that day onwards, i never ever use them again,
but it's still a recommended setting and used in
doom9 codec comparison too! why?

anyone has explaination about quarter pixel and global motion compensation?

"swimming walls" xvid problem is not tied with either of those options.

what's more, qpel should lessen such artefacts.
can you encode same movie with recent builds and see if it still swimms?

ohh..yeah.
qpel means "to do a better motion compensation because you're doing it with greater (quarter pixel) precision (usual is half-pel precision)"

avery presented a nice explanation here
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act...&hl=&#entry8225
(read that and his following post).

gmc should help if a whole image is moving (panning or so) like in camera movements, but i think it doesn't really bring significant difference.

Did you try x264 in ffdshow? You can use 2 passes that way.

As for qpel and GMC: http://ronald.vslcatena.nl/docs/xvidfaq.html

Quarter pixel is estimating motion vectors down to 1/4 of pixel.
GMC is applying a global motion compensation to the whole picture.

indeed, i use ffdshow for x264 encoding, and how to use 2 pass?

there is only 2 options,
1. one pass consatnat bitrate
2. one pass constant quantizer.....

EDIT: forgot to mention the version

the ffdshow i used is built by celtic driuds, it's a december build
and the x264 dll is also downloaded from celtic druid's page

where to get the dll that supports 2 pass?
thanks



I think i can get the picture of quarter pixel, it enhances the motion search process

that means using quarter pixel will always improve quality?

ffdshow x264 2pass encoding:

1. In the ffvfw window, choose the constant bitrate mode,

2. then go to the "output" section, you may notice one option called "libavcodec stats file",it have 4 option IIRC, called write, use, don't use...(can't remember), of course select the write at first pass.

3. after first pass done, go to the "output" section, select "use" at libavcodec stats file option.

That's all.

This 3 post may be usefull for you, ffdshow #2 development,
mencoder+x264,
x264 development

I fully agree here, although we may not be too far away from working, native h.264 support in MKV. The latest Pre's of mkvmerge can mux h.264 from MP4 already fine, and for the tim being we dont see any reason why we shouldnt use the same way for storing h.264 in MKV like MP4 does, means without NALU's. Of course, it might be better to have only one single way of putting AVC in MKV, including NALU's, but they are mainly required/sensible for streaming purposes, and MKV is not at all optimized for streaming the way it is now. As a result of whats said above, we will likely keep things as they are now, and use another codec ID for h.264 with NALUs if they become usable for streaming one day. This will also make transmuxing from MP4 to MKV, and vice versa, much easier for the time being ( otherwise we had to read/create NALU's during muxing, and to strip them when going MP4 ).

The problem with h.264 decoders should soon be solved i guess, as ffdshow is making nice progress in this respect recently. About mkvtoolnix 1.2.0, expect a fireworks of new features and supported formats :

- h.264
- Wavpack 4
- MPEG 1/2 ( ES, PS, VOB )
- DV
- menues ( alpha )
- super chapters ( formerly 'control tracks' )

Christian
matroska project admin
http://www.matroska.org

tested, the only way to use it is you must use same settings for both passes

this doesn't make any sense, i try 1st pass with Q2 and try to use that stat file to create a file with a specific overall bitrate and it failed!

I've read the x264 link "yong' Provided and it seem that they can encode 1st pass with quantizer and second pass with bitrate, how they do that?

@kotrtim:
May be you can try the MEncoder first, because the their x264 lib is newer than ffdshow.
Before try it,
read the Documentation here,
donwload the lastest official build of mplayer here, because you need the important files like DLL, mplayer config file....ect, IIRC official build can't encode video with x264, so donwload lastest CVS build by Celtic druid here, just extract mplayer and mencoder and replace the old one's.

Here's the example of the mencoder x264 encoding batch file:


Cheers,
yong

I already have the latest CVS mencoder, but mencoder doesn't accept .avs

and yeah, the terrible command!! I hate to use command

thanks...I think I'll read the w docs

@kotrtim:

For the Avisynth script, someone already made a program called AVS2YUV,
because the AVS2YUV and the mplayer or mencoder support stdin and stdout, so it's easy to using the avs with mencoder.

Now i'm searching for good software h264 decoder which can decode B-frames with CABAC,
i tried with Videosoft's h264 decoder, it's good, can decode video with AVC1, X264, H264 and VSSH fourCC(haven't test with DAVC fourCC),
but their decoder seeking method is a crap...

Moonligth h264 decoder is worst than the VSS, only can recognized AVC1 and VSSH fourCC, even i modify the subtype,
seeking is slow, sometime is totally jammed...

Don't know about libavcodec status now...

Now i'm downloading the mpegable DSdecoder...

Please suggest me a good h264 decoder, thanks

What is the NAL and NALU?
After reading the ChristianHJW and Bonzi post,
still don't understand...
something bad will happen if transmuxing the h264 AVI to MKV?

Today's ffdshow build by celtic druid can finally decode b-frames, although i'm not sure about nero AVC encodes, but it can decode x264 encodes with b-frames flawlessly.

sex264 is now on doom9's forum, what a name!

but it is said that it is very bad to use vfw for h264 becoz m$ VCM cannot use the full feature of current codecs, or there are some restrictions......so what is it so bad about VCM? can anybody please tell, thanks

latest ffmpeg/ffdshow supports avc b-frames

Yeah, tested, seeking is fast, great job x264 developers!!!

NeroVision Express 3.0.1.18 is now out.

Also, has anyone given CyberLink PowerEncoder MPEG-4 AVC Edition a try yet?

So has anyone checked if the Nero Recode 2 with the latest NVE release is the one tested by Domm9?

What about Cyberlink's product, is it any good?

I use recode2 to backup my movies to mpeg4 asp i just use mp4ui and export avi out of mp4 container than use vdub to put in mp3 audio.I tested cyberlink powerencoder that encodes to avc and it has few options and it muxes into mpg and i don't know how to demux it properly.You can only compress audio to layer 2 .Anyway cyberlinks avc encoder uses moonlight avc encoder so i tested both and they both suck, based on the reference code too much (also loses fine grain).If you wanna do avc i suggest latest nero recode with it's avc encoder.Haven't seen any jm 9.2 binary's

Thanks for the info, can you please tell me why you do the audio in MP3 format separately in that way? What don't you like of the way Recode does it?

Edit: spelling.