Howdy,
can anyone enlighten me regarding what kinda AAC files I can playback with my Nokia 6230 mobile (HE, LC, CBR, VBR, etc.)?
The manual and the official website just state support for the format and nothing more.

Thank you.

MPEG-2 LC AAC

Thanks, I needed to know in advance cause I'm using an IR connection and it takes ages to transfer a few MB's.

I felt like experimenting in spite of the very long transfer times and found out files encoded with the Nero Digital Audio "VBR/Stereo - Portable, 50-70 kbps [HE AAC]" work just fine with it.

Yeah, but as the decoder does NOT support the HE-AAC profile, you will lose the SBR part of the encoded file. (i.e. it will decode it as LC-AAC, thus resulting in lower quality...so you should maybe encode to 50-70 kbps LC-AAC)

I see, thank you for the drift.
Do you have a link to a page where I could check out the phone's decoder specs, please?

What specs are you expecting to find exactly?

I tink he wants to be sure that it can't play HE-AAC...

Big_Berny

I just got this phone too and I haven't tried the AAC capability out, but what's the highest bitrate it can handle? I heard Itunes was the better AAC encoder, but it only outputs in .m4a so I don't think it'll work in the phone.

A standards-compliant AAC decoder should handle up to 576kbps for stereo files, IIRC.

Nero can still output to mpeg2 AAC right? Last I heard Mpeg2 AAC is still the same as Mpeg 4 AAC, just the difference is the wrapper? Is it possible to get Nero to output in .aac and then at some other point in time wrap it around the container to make it standard compliant?

MP4, M4A and AAC are interchangable in a lossless manner.

The only difference is that MPEG 4 AAC can have an extra tool (PNS). You are confusing the container (MPEG 4 File format, i.e. mp4 or m4a files) with the encoder standard (MPEG 4 LC AAC).

Nokia 6230i model seems to be capable of playing MP3, M4A and AAC files. So the MP4 container is now working but the HE-AAC part isn't mentioned anywhere so I guess it isn't supported.

I've been waiting a long time for the much rumored Nokia 6230i ...

Anyone know the exact specs of its audio playback capabilities. I have lotta music files encoded @ 192Kbps and 320Kbps, and audio books that I'm thinking of converting to AAC or Mp4a whichever gives the best size/quality results, with reference to the phones playback capabilties.


I guess this info might be available at Nokia Dev forums ... anyone ?

I simply would like to know what decoder the mobile uses and it's complete specs, I did believe the posters who said it doesn't support HE-AAC.

Edit: grammar.

@Garf: How come Mr QuestionMan 0.6 reports all HE files (encoded with Nero 6.6.0.8, "VBR/Stereo - Portable, 50-70 kbps [HE AAC]" preset) as LC ADTS ones?

Can we safely say it'll play any Mp3 file in CBR/VBR ranging from 96Kbps ~ 320Kbps.

And any Quicktime Mp4 or Nero Encoded AAC files as long its LC AAC?

It seems we have a new contender in the world of mobile music

Sony Ericsson Mobile W800i Walkman
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=ae&...m=pp1&pid=10245

Me thinks me worries are over

Me thinks it is si ugly.

Because HE-AAC is an extension of LC-AAC. Any HE-AAC file is also a LC-AAC file and will play in a LC-AAC player.

Alright, so how can I tell'em apart with Mr QM (size gives me a hint, but I'd like to be sure)? Is there another tool which I could use?
Also and as already pointed out here: HE files will play in LC players but with a loss in quality, right?

On a side note, the Sony Ericsson W800i Walkman is a tad ugly and bulky, and since I don't care about the integrated 2-megapixel digital camera I'd go for the Nokia 6230i anyday (but right now I'm more than happy with my 6230, which travels with me anywhere along with a nice 1GB Creative MuVo N200 ).

Have you tried AAC music in your 6230 yet?

Mr QM simply doesn't have that capability as far as I know.

They will play without the SBR part.

Thanks for the drift, the last part of your post allowed me to find a solution:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=280436

What tool would you suggest to perform such "conversions"?
mp4UI?

foobar2000? (for AAC<>MP4)

move? (for MP4<>M4A)

ren

Course I meant AAC<>MP4/M4A
And nobody here is giving me any props for the MP4box brilliant idea I had to tell HE and LC files apart (last post on the previous page), you guys are so cold ...

mp4UI is still considered too buggy 'round here?

Edit: just because

so has anyone tried AAC on their 6230b yet?

Hello all,

About LC player able to play HE files, I think it's wrong since my SharpV902 (and V802 the same) can only play LC ones.

I haven't tested the 6230 yet, but it surely can play LC and HE-AAC files without quality loss.
I've test the 6630,6680,9500 and many others which can play both and I've easily heard the quality difference between LC and HE.

Waiting for a PS mobile...

A LC-AAC player can play HE-AAC files, because HE-AAC files are _also_ LC-AAC files. If yours doesn't play them, it's broken and/or buggy so it cannot reasonably be called an LC-AAC player, either.

I use my 6230 with a 1Gig MMC works like a charm. Something worth mentionning is that you will need this unless you want to be stuck with the crappy earbuds provided.

The sound is OK, but I don't find it as good as the sound that comes out of my SB Live. I thinks it lacks bass (especially the lower part of the basses). I have never had a good experience with the sound that comes out of portable devices anyway...

About the AAC support, it doesn't support HE-AAC. Having a Gig, this is usually not an issue : even if you have a high bitrate (I personally use the "Nero VBR/Stereo -Transparent, 110-150kbps [LC-AAC]" profile, because I transcode from lossy stuff (mpc, mp3)), you can still put a lot of songs on it.

********
Garf said :
A LC-AAC player can play HE-AAC files, because HE-AAC files are _also_ LC-AAC files. If yours doesn't play them, it's broken and/or buggy so it cannot reasonably be called an LC-AAC player, either.
********

I've used an encoder which can specify the SBR signalling in 3 ways:
- implicit
- explicit backwards compatible
- explicit non-backwards compatible

and tested aac files on another mobile.
AAC codec was accepted only using AAC-LC profile with implicit SBR signalling.
All other methods were rejected by the player.
So I can't believe yet that LC player can play HE files and that all encoders use the same SBR signalling mode.
Maybe in theory, mpeg specs of AAC say that this codec must be backward compatible but is there an encoder (and player) which follow exactly these specs?

The signaling methods only make sense in the context of an MP4 container, so I can't make any sense of what you are saying.

Without MP4 containers, signaling is always implicit.


(Edit: Ok, I'm guessing you were encoding to MP4 and your player broke with the backwards compatible explicit signaling. This means that *the players support of the MP4 container* is broken. Complain loudly to your manufacturer. This has got nothing to do with HE-AAC.
Non-backwards compatible signaling is obviously...not backwards compatible)

Yes, I was making 3gp files.

And the mobile is NEC 411i.

Thanks for this answer.

So if I understand well, if I make a file in adts format (with aac extension, so with no container), in he-aac ps, it will be accepted by all player that support adts for sure cause the backward compatible aptitude of the codec can only be bypass by the container.

And if signaling is always implicit in adts, how one he-file can be processed as one lc-file?

Something I missing?

Yes. On the assumption that the decoder is not buggy.



Because, as I said above, a HE-AAC file is a valid LC-AAC file?

Can anyone tell what is the battery life on this phone (playing music, obviously)

I will very likely be my next phone.

Also (sorry), can the tracks be transferred via Bluetooth?

It depends if the content provider use DRM or not. I think they will use it...no luck.

Yes, tracks can be transferred nicely with Bluetooth. As the 6230 reads only AAC files outside an MP4 container anyway DRM'ed tracks are useless on the phone. But I think all kinds of files can be transfer to the phone - the Nokia PC suite registers the phone as a kind of mass storage device.

By the way, does anybody know which AAC encoder is used by the Nokia software, or do they have their own ?

I wouldn't recommend transfering music files via bluetooth, because transfer speed of bluetooth is rather low. (only up to 2 Megabytes per Minute!)
I'd say using a cardwriter to copy music on mmc card is a better way.

The music player of the 6230 phone supports mp3, unprotected aac and nokia encrypted aac files. The new 6230i phone supports aac in mp4 container.

I think I read somewhere that they licensed HE AAC from Nero...

A cardwriter is not exactly the best way to transfer files for the nokia phone, as it is placed under the battery and not easily removed. Bluetooth 2.0 has just been standardized, so most cell phones will only support 1.2 standard with up to 728 Kbit/s or so. But to me it still seems the best option compared to an expensive data cable that can just be used for nokia phones.

I tend to agree with you in the point of useabilty.
Well, I handle it that way at the moment. I transfer only small data values via bluetooth (up to 10 MB) and use a cardreader/writer for bigger transfers.
It isn't reasonable to wait 2 hours for a transfer of 200 MB music files, imo.

Recently upgraded to a nice 6230i and it's P&P USB connection (cable included w/ the phone, no more need for the Nokia Suite sw for file transfers) works great.

I've experimented with FAAC (via foobar, including downsampling to 32kHz) to encode low bitrate (90-100 kbps) aac for my 6230.

Using the --obj-type option, I tried LC, LTP and Main types.

LC was encoded with OK speed and the 6230 was able to play it, but the sound wasn't impressive...
LTP was encoded terribly slow and the 6230 was able to play it, but the sound was awful.
Main encoded with OK speed, but 6230 was unable to play it.

The result of this experiment? I went back to LAME mp3s with ff123's and Hans' 128 kbps ABR setting, wich continues to be my low-bitrate-favourite

These days I'm checking out the LAME 3.97a10 V7 (yes, I know its for testing purposes, and that V7 is pushing the limits) and the FhG Pro via ACMEnc in foobar (yes, I know that mentioning the f-word here is like swearing in a church...)


Btw DARcode - are you using a MMC > 512 MB? And if so, have you experienced any trouble using the USB-connection? I ask because I understand that Nokia says max supported MMC size is 512 MB for 6230i (they said that for 6230 too, but I use 1 GB with no trobule via cardreader) - I suspect it might just be a question of formattibg the card correctly with the proper tools?

Have you tried the encoder supplied with the Nokia PC suite? Encoding in " Optimized" mode, it creates stereo files of around 64Kbps (44Khz), which sound quite good (easily abxable, but better than mp3 at 96kbps CBR) and that is just the 2nd worst option.

the only downside is that it only allows to be used when ripping a CD ( i have a workaround for this, using daemon tools )

Since I have my CDs ripped to FLAC, I would really appreciate to if you could reveal a little bit more about your workaround Sounds like something worth learning!

Edit: clarification

this is just a quick P.S should anyone find this thread via a search in the future

Nokia have made a page so you can see what audio formats your phone supports:

Link

(according to that, the 6230 only supports the AMR-NB codec. bizarre)

to save you looking, here is a list of the Nokia phones that (currently) support AAC, AAC+, and eAAC+ :

3250, E60, E61, E70, N71 N80, N92, N70, N90, N91

and these phone just support plain old LC-AAC:

6260, 3230, 6670, 7610, 6620, 6630, 6680, 6681, 6682, 9300, 9500, 7710