hey,
M$ is planning to include the SecureOS project in their next OS (longhorn), to find out what the Secure OS project is, read this online petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/tcpa1/

sign it if you agree.. and try to pass the word about it (post the link to the petition if you can).

I'm definetly not buying that OS knowing that these current intel chips might already have this technology.

P.S. The petition only describes the bad parts of palladium (which i think are more attractive than the "good" ones , if u can call them good anyways.), you can read about more technical stuff and more on how it works and what it does here: http://www.activewin.com/articles/2002/pd.shtml

Any comments are welcome.

although i totally agree with the dangers of palladium, the petition lacks credibility - its totally biased, and not expressed well needs to be reworked i reckon, to be taken seriously.

just my two pence

Other point is that this petition is intended for Windows users only, when Palladium as a hardware platform is a risk for other systems as well. (GNU/Linux, FreeBSD,...).

i got the same feeling reading this. it sound just like noise in my ears.
must be my anti-yelling-because-i--have-no-arguments-or-evidence filter that kicked in.

well actually it depends on the OS..

i dont think that any linux os WILL support palladium.

the only thing that im afraid of is M$ sneaking in a palladium upgrade in XP SP2 or something!

The will surely do with SP2, and will start to collect software rent as well.

But AFAIK, Palladium will be implemented by hardware equipment as well, making only trusted binaries to run. Think of free software that you compile: It won't run, coz u just compiled it and no one gives u 'trust'.

My two (€uro) pences

M$ simply sux

im not sure when they strated implementing the fritz chip in the P4! (maybe they havent started yet..)

Who knows.

All i know is that the P3 had Palladium but it could be easily hacked, so they stopped the project. and intel refused to put it, but AMD happily agreed (these stupid ass lickers), but after a while Intel was 'forced' back to put it in.

This gives us no choice, either stick with XP Sp1 or older OSs, or get a new OS and get f*cked.

P.S. linux will never make use of this, also, programs cant require palladium, coz no one will upgrade an os/buy a new intel/amd chip just to use a program!

WE ARE ALL FUCKED!! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5160

I told you...
> Any ideas on what might happend to Open Source Software if creators can't afford
> to have their work certified?
> Is GPL currently on the endangered species lists?

That is what I was talking about. Is the hardware what checks if your freshly compiled binaries are certified, and of course, not: you just compiled them from the sources. GPL is then unenforceable.

But, regarding your opinion that all OSes are to be Palladium compliant, in the article, they are commenting about comercial Linux distros, not Debian GNU/Linux, nor Debian GNU/Hurd, nor Slackware, nor any other truely free OS.

And about the hardware, check www.OpenCores.org if you are getting mad. Hope is the last thing you will lose.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

This topic makes me want to find a brick wall to plow my head into...

MS to eradicate GPL, hence Linux

This is also quite disturbing, although it may be just paranoia. Who can tell until it all shakes out ?

ß

Funny how rumors spread. I hate that.

Palladium is supposed to be a secure sandbox environment applications that require such an environment (like future secure audio delivery apps etc). You regular apps will run like before and don't give a shit about Palladium, not will Palladium take over your computer.

Read the whitepaper instead of trusting something the brother of a friends aunties daughter IM'd someone.

--edit--
I quickly flew over it. Giving someone else full access is bullshit either. Funny how people have facts about stuff that is this in early alpha and noone has ever seen.

Thats all bullshit.. i dont think that they'll actully tell u whatever it does.

i would never support this garbage!

From Microsoft Palladium FAQ

So seems that Microsoft is playing the 'fair boys' against the 'evil TCPA'. Comforting, isn't it? I'm going to check what RMS has to say about it.

P.S.: Tom Servo, I reed as many facts about Palladium as I could, and I'm not less scared now.

There may be a lot of red herrings in Ross Anderson's diatribe, however we can only judge the MS-Intel axis on past attitudes to the end-user and the methods adopted to maintain and increase market share.

Look on Bill Gates as a latter Julius Caesar and Intel his bemused Pompey

Regnant avarice.

ß

ManyFaces: You read about Palladium? From the web? Articles made purely on assumptions by these pseudo-experts from ZDnet and all? Thank you, but web articles are no credible sources at all at the moment.

britannica: Wait until it's out (beta or final), then let people hack it, sniff it and all. After that we can start to pull over it. When MS announced it, I think they mentioned stuff about releasing the palladium core sources under the Shared Source license. And oh, it won't be possible to do harm to the original core nor change the DLLs with custom ones, since you'd need to sign modded DLLs, and noone except MS has the private key.

Seems that u didn't noticed i quoted Microsoft FAQs. What more oficial than reading from the creators of the thing?

BTW: What's the matter with you?

I wasn't talking about the quotes, more about that:

P.S.: Tom Servo, I reed as many facts about Palladium as I could, and I'm not less scared now.

Ok, ok, but how many sources are in Internet about Palladium? What are your trusted ones? Are the ones of written magazines better? I think no. I reed long ago about Palladium in www.TheRegister.co.uk, quoted in TomsHardware.com. There are maybe better sources (I even went for Microsoft itself), but they all talk about almost the same, even the Microsoft one...

TheReg and and other magazines are writing biased from rumors interpolated articles, reporting what it'd do and what not, tho noone ever saw it or used it. It's in alpha development, so how are all these online mags supposed to know what and how it does stuff? I say, wait until it's out, then ppl should argue. You don't have a choice anyway, because it's unlikely that MS will ditch it.

Btw I don't read written press anymore.

True - it's much like finding yourself on death-row and going on hunger strike in protest

And it will likely be too useful to governments to arouse any official opposition.

ß

This OS does not sound good... not good at all... I think I better start learning to use the other OS's.

Cheers
AgentMil

I'm starting to get really mad: just answer, the Microsoft FAQ is sufficiently 'oficial' and un-biased for you?

...if it isn't, nothing will do. Period.

And the Microsoft one is scary enough...

http://www.microsoft.com/PressPass/feature...alladiumFAQ.asp

I give more worth on the MS one right now, than all these boulevard-press-style articles from TheReg and /.
You know why I don't give a crap about TheReg and /. and the rest? Because they're basing their stories totally from speculations, rumors and what their neighbour told them. I will change my mind when first versions of Palladium are out, and the webmags start basing their articles from that.

And I don't see anything scary to the MS FAQ except that they keep telling that it's a sandbox for apps that require security and protected storage. And it being friggin OPTIONAL!

And frankly, what's to get mad at anyway? Either you stop believing these stupid Palladium articles until the platform is out, or are not going to use Longhorn.

So, you didn't actually read the quotation I made of this FAQ some replyes ago, didn't you?

The reason I'm about to get mad is that I've trying to say that I quoted an official FAQ for days, and you were still putting it in doubt and saying that they are only suppositions... My fault was not to post the link earlier.

BTW: Linux is my operating system of choice, but I'm not afraid of Palladium itself, but of the machine going to run it: What choices we have? Using our Athlons, till the end of the ages? Or use one brand new, 'Fritz chip' inside, and shiny computer?

well eat vegetables and excersise regularly, so you get to live longer...
I was born in 70's and I have fair chance of outliving M$ Gates...

On the other hand, he can afford better health-care... hmmm... anyone have a rocket launcher?

this site has an article on it too, haven't read it though...
http://www.wastedyouth.org/news.php?nid=48

The article you posted contains plain bullshit... Secure internet a.k.a. Palladium puters only talk to Palladium webservers, or every app gets checked for its signature, if it doesnt have a valid one it wont run. BULLSHIT.

Tom, u troll

stop defending M$.

u will get fuxored as all of us when it gets released anyways, only u havent figured it out yet. well.. it will hit ya sometime buddy..

Official or not there are scarry things to considder. Let us assume that Microsoft is writing it and will release the code under their shared source model. A model that is far worse than the GPL but I digress. So in the end anyone can impliment paladium, correct? Yes. But Microsoft still has key control points such as licensing keys. Are they gonna let company X play in their market? Short answer yes. Full answer yes but only on their terms. Microsoft terms means they have a budget and manpower advantage and they slap you with a handycap. Microsoft has strategically been placing themselves in the past working towards this. They have their own format and codecs. They supply little or no support for systems other than Microsoft Windows for these formats. People have been able to hack them and get them to run under Linux etc. But with Paladium they could further designate things such as platforms they trust. Platforms as in OS etc. These DLL files would look for a MS Paladium architechture and keys and finding none refuse to work. Remember that as stupid as it sounds people love their 64Kbps CD quality WMA. So they are gonna have to stick to just a few platforms to be able to play these files on their PC. Windows being the most common. Possibly Mac. Can you name any others? I doubt it. Now start applying it to other areas. Lets say I legally own a copy of Microsoft Office for Windows. But I run Linux and simply need it for office interoperability. At some future point MS puts Paladium hooks in Office and bam! I am untrusted.

It all has to do with the keys you say. And that is a large part of the problem. But I have heard people claim that as long as you have they key you will still be able to run the software. What good is a key if it could be bypassed that way? It is no good to MS. Everything has to be trusted from the ground up which implies that that sort of software migration shenanigans will not be tollerated. If anyone were to write a Paladium sand box that allowed for this their expensive key would most likely get revoked. Microsoft Windows applications and their pices will have to be run on Microsoft Windows operating systems. Period. Can you tell me otherwise Tom? If you do I doubt you have even been loosely following the things that Microsoft has blatantly done let alone any conjecture or rumor.

There are often bits of truth in rumor and legend. If you have any facts or insight to disperse them put them foreward. Don't just call all these articles stupid and then just say lets wait and see.

neko, u have alot of free time lol

but u got alot of points tho

Im getting so paranoid that im not gonna u upgrade my hardware further, or buy a new MS OS.

their products have such strict policies. What the hell do they care who uses the media player, they have to spy on people there too?? same for the gay msn software, probably all of their products.

the scary thing is, they could even bypass firewalls!!!!!!!!

It is hard not to be paranoid of Microsoft. They have shown at least that thinking the best of them is a wasted past time.

I can't begin to layout just how bad the finished product will be for eveybody. I just know it will be bad. So for that we will have to wait and see. Whatever other rumors may surface one thing you can take to the bank is this. Palladium is a central piece in the architechture of Microsoft's monopoly on the future.

The thing that is most disheartening is the willingness to adopt palladium that the govt. and the companies here have. As companies go MS has one of the worst security track records on the planet. And this in a field of pure security. I smell disaster brewing.

Microsoft. Slow to acknowledge vulnerablilties. Slower to patch them. Even though they should have been caught before the product was released.

yep,

many companies support them, well AOheLl will definetly not do that

M$ with their stupid press releases, u remember what was when XP was about to be released??

they said that they will save the economy, they did?? no they didnt...

same with palladium, they promise to secure our pcs, while as usual, they wont.

The really scary thing is that companies will adopt palladium..

I think that someone needs to hijack bill gates and threaten him with smth like : "if you will not stop the palladium project, and not remove all the spyware in ms products, we will cut your balls off"

That will not stop him. There is a ban on human cloning. But if you have enough money nothing is out of the question. I bet you they are growing BG clones for just that eventuality. They can always graft on a new set of balls later. (rimshot)

If it really comes hard, I'll be merging to FreeBSD. It's installed here since ages, and I keep it up to date to -CURRENT, so...

And what was that about figuring out? You people are all basing your opinion on some so-called facts that most sites pulled out of their nose. It's like boulevard press, as worse as english Sun or german Bild. Like said before, wait for a (beta) release. Then we'll see further.

lmao

Another way to defeat longhorn is simply not to buy it! ... Keep using Win XP (or whatever), that you use today ... maybe someone will make some "feel-and-look-like-longhorn" patches for XP ...

Then you won't have to buy a new OS!!

MS will find a way to throw a wrench in the works. Always do.

As to the wait and see attitude... of that I can not abide. It is futile to start resistance after it is to late. Remember that legend and rumor have grains of truth in them. They should not be shruged off so easily. Increadulous ones are easy to spot. But so far these claims are not so increadulous. In fact they sound quite reasonable to be coming from what we call Microsoft. I will fight now so as to curb their intentions. Through that I will have more sucess than trying to change it after the fact when it is released and in the hands of cluless druling brainwashed masses. "It Microsoft! It's new! I must buy! Billy boy needs a new billion!" That will be the cry they prolifferate.

they will always find a way to squeeze palladium in xp.

they aren't trying to protect us from hackers as they announced, but they're trying to gain control of all of us.

thats why they will probably sneak in some palladium update under a label of some security update, or SP2...

feck them!

bringing it up again, here is a website that contains a lot of information and an option to kind of sign in to show you're against it.
The FAQ, although a bit long, is a very instersting reading.

no doubt...

if the situation ever becomes so bad that there isnt any good Linuxs or hacked-up Windows distributions.... then you might as well just hook me up to the Matrix.

oh yeah... I want a really big big house on the hill.... and I wanna sink my teeth into this nice tender juicy delicious steak.