This thread will be used to gather an accurate list of DAE drive features. Just post your drive(s) features in this thread & I will add them to my database.

The lists main purpose is to provide sample offsets for users who don't have one of EAC's key CD's & help people decide which is an optimal drive for use with EAC & which is a suitable drive for accurate results with CD Paranoia.

I will not add any incomplete records into the database so you must provide all the required fields.

Required Fields:

• Manufacturer <-- First part of EAC's top-left list box
• Type <-- Second part of EAC's top-left list box
• Model <-- Third part of EAC's top-left list box
• Accurate Stream <--Detect Drive Features....
• Caching <--Detect Drive Features....
• C2 Error Info <--Detect Drive Features....
• Overread <--Detect read sample offset correction....
• Sample Offset <--Detect read sample offset correction....
• Firmware <--Drive tab of Nero InfoTool

Example:



Results so far:



Database file (xls):

10-04-2005

cd drive offsets can also be found at accuraterip.

http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm

Heh, not so long time ago AgentMil started the same topic and you were the first person who suggested that it doesn't make much sense
Well, IMO it still doesn't make sense as there already are at least 3 web-sites with all these data. Of course it won't hurt to have another one here on HA, but lets make it the way it should be then - first of all providing firmware version of the drive for which someone submits the data is a must. Secondly, "Disable Cache" is confusing, you should change it to "Drive caches audio". Also, in the table there always should be a "+" or "-" sign before Sample Offset value (which in fact is an Offset Correction value). And since the table is supposed to help people choose a good drive, other EAC-related data wouldn't hurt (like CD-TEXT/UPC/ISRC read/write capability, gap/index retrieval method and accuracy, read command, write offset if it's a burner, etc).

OK


OK


Negative values will have a "-" minus sign.



I think I have the most improtant DAE related drive data.

I will also release a .xls file if/when the database starts to really populate, that file can then be used to import the data I have gathered into the Offset Base, Accuraterip, SatCP, & any other web site or program that wants to have a drive feature database.

can you get a log output from Nero CD Speed?

If so you should ask for log submissions from neros Advanced DAE, this would be more reliable then peoples reporting. Better yet, quite a few people here work at nero, maybe they could suggest nero add a drive feature set upload to a database for others to access.

For sake of readibility positive values should have a "+" plus sign too. Red background for drives which overread capabilities don't match their offset (for example overread into lead-in and positive offset), and yellow (or green?) background for the ones which do match (for example overread into lead-in and negative offset) would be nice too.


Nero CD Speed reports combined read/write offset which alone is rather useless, not to mention that Advenced DAE Quality Test is a drive-killer (harmonica test ).

Type: SONY DVD-ROM
Model: DDU1621
Firmware: S2.9
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread: Lead-In
Offset: +12

Type: HL-DT-STDVDRAM (it's LG)
Model: GSA-4120B
Firmware: A111
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread: Lead-In
Offset: +667

Could you change the format that the results list is in, it looks like it's a jpg (blurry) i think a png would be easier to read.

I also think putting + or - infront of the offset value is a good idea

Hmm, the SAMSUNG - SH-152A looks pretty good. $15 shipped and +offset correction with lead out over reading. Can anyone confirm these features? This would result in perfect rips correct?

IDE1008 Firmware: 0059
DVD-16X6S Firmware: DSG2

Its also interesting if I use EAC to configure my offsets instead of Accuraterip, it gives me +2009 on both drives with no Overread on either.

I wonder if this thread could be stickied by a mod.

@westgroveg
Is there any chance of getting a key which tells us what the colors mean ?

Would it be possible to split the manufacturer name from the type field?

At some point I can make a MySQL database from your database file and it would be nice to design a simple web interface so we can filter out particular manufacturers. It would be much easier to do if the manufacturer had it's own field.

Unfortunateson - It is because you are using a different pressing and therefore you should only rely on results you get more than once. -If EAC reports that you cant overread why have you posted otherwise ? -Martin.

Edit: When you do the EAC offset test with a different pressing disc or even a disc thats not in the database then you can still trust the overreading capability part of the test.

Yes Unfortunateson, could you clear up whether EAC reports the drives can overread lead out or not overread at all?

What I may do eventually is host a lossless copy of my EAC Test CD. People can download it, burn it to CD with their burner, then extract & compare with the original wav which will give you your drives write sample offset, then you take away that value from the read offset EAC reports with the CD you created, thus giving you an exact read sample offset.

sorry about the confusion... EAC reports neither the IDE1008 or DVD-16X6S overread, but it only finds one of my CDs in its database, where accuraterip finds many of them, and gives both drives an offset of +12. And the caching of the drives are reversed in your graph.

Unfortunateson - AccurateRip dosent check for overreading capability. And even if you have overreading enabled in EAC and dosent get a sync error on the end of the last track then you cannot be certain that your drive can overread. Some drives report a sync error but others dosent, and just insert null samples instead. When you do the EAC offset test, then make sure to use an original cd. It dosent matter if its in the database or not because you only check for overreading capability of your drive. -Martin.

ive checked, no overreading on neither

Type: BenQ DVD-RW
Model: DW1620 Pro
Firmware: B7U9
Caching: NO
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: NO
Overread I/O: Only Lead In
Sample Offset: +618

Type: AOpen DVD-ROM
Model: 1648 AAP Pro
Firmware: 1.02
Caching: YES
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread I/O: Only Lead In
Sample Offset: +738

Type: LiteOn DVD-ROM
Model: XJ-HD 165H
Firmware: CH12
Caching: YES
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread I/O: None
Sample Offset: +12

Type: ASUS CD-RW
Model: CRW-5232AS
Firmware: 1.03
Caching: YES
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread I/O: Only Lead In
Sample Offset: +6

Type: TEAC CD-RW
Model: CD-W524E
Firmware: 1.0E
Caching: NO
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread I/O: Only Lead In
Sample Offset: +686

-andy-

OK, fixed.


Just in case anyone is wondering this confusion is due to the fact that the original required fields names where slightly confusing.

Should be correct now unfortunateson?

looks good.

Manufacturer - Samsung
Type - CD-RW/DVD
Model - SM-316B
Accurate Stream - Yes
Caching - No
C2 Error Info - Yes
Overread - None
Sample Offset - +120 (read); +6 (write)
Firmware - T302-COM

Just to keep people updated:

I've now created the MySQL database with some php pages that display these drive features in a table, along with a basic search tool (not really required until the database gets alot bigger). There is also a registration and submission form so people can register and submit their own drive details. So ultimately, do please continue to submit your drives features here. But, you can wait and directly use the form at a later date.

I hope to bring the site online within the next week after some more testing has been done.

Cheers.

Manufacturer: Samsung
Type: CD-R/RW
Model: SW-252B
Accurate Stream: Yes
Caching: No
C2 Error Info: Yes
Overread: No
Sample Offset: +97
Firmware: R700

I would remove the Matching column along with blue colour (OK), and mark two columns (Overread & Sample Offset) with a good colour if overread & offset match, or with a bad colour if overread & offset don't match. Good colour should be green, and the bad/red one a bit brighter (black text isn't too readable on current one). It's also time to switch to PNG!

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this. My html table also has the Matching column, like the .xls file above. But I'm considering whether to implement your suggestion. I think it's a good idea since it removes a column. Below the table I'd need to add some text to explain what the colours mean but that need only be a sentance or two.


Yup.

A drive with a 10 sample offset isn’t the same as a drive with 1000 sample offset.


I tried but I get something like "dynamic links not allowed"

I'm not sure what you mean here. If overread & offset match then it doesn't matter how big the offset is. And you don't seem to colour the Sample Offset column anyway.

Strange, for me it works. Can you email me the XLS? I'll PM you my address.

Thanks, here's a quick view of how it would look like if my suggestions were applied:
I removed the picture
PNG works here, maybe try to upload to HA's Upload forum and link from there?
I'll remove this picture soon...

What I mean is that if we have a drive with an offset of say 10 samples that can't overread it's not the same as a drive with an offset of 1000 samples that can't overread yet both drives would have the Sample Offset field marked red.

We would need to agree upon a color rating based upon how long the offset is & if the drive can overread.

Also can overreading into a non matching value be useful at all? if not then I agree a drive that can't overread into the corresponding value should be marked red

How did you get the positive symbols to appear in Excel?

In DAE, overreading into a non matching value is completly useless I think. Anyway, I have an idea of giving scores, so colour marking could stay simple as I suggest, and there wouldn't be a subjective limit where the non-matching offset becomes too bad.
The scoring could be like that:
1. If Accurate Stream is available then score = 1000, otherwise score = 0
2. If drive doesn't cache then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
3. If C2 is available then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
4. If overread & offset match then score = score + 1000, if they don't match then score = score - |offset|
So, score of Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD-106 would be 1000 + 0 + 0 - 102 = 898 rutra80 marks
And score of Plextor CD-ROM PX-40TS would be 1000 + 1000 + 1000 + 1000 = 4000 (full scale)
That way even the website that evereux prepares could have a "Sort by score" option to view the best drive for DAE.
Of course weight of Accurate Stream, Caching, C2, or overreading & offset can be higher or lower than 1000.

You must format the cells as text and add a space before the positive symbol.

I noticed that you removed the Firmware column, why?

Besides, who can tell me whether the writing function of Pioneer DVD+/-RW Type 109 could be supported by EAC? and what is its read offset and writing offset? Thanks.

rutra80, there is a slight misstake in your table: the TEAC CD-W524E (result submitted by me) had firmware 1.0E, not 1.03E.

-andy-

EAC doesn't support my Pioneer 106 DVD-RW for writing either.

make a EAC offset cd on a drive that has it correct write offset set and use that CD and EAC will find the offset for you.

Another way is

*Note - Gap detection|detection accuracy needs to be set to Secure on both drives first

Put a audio CD in to a drive that has the correct read offset set, press F4 to detect any gaps, then select a track and copy it to WAV format, it is also a good idea to rename the resulting WAV file to the name of the drive that you copied it off.

Put the same cd into the drive you want to find the read offset, press F4 to detect any gaps again, copy the same track that you copied orginally to WAV format and rename the WAV file to the name of the drive it was copied from.

Compare the two files and there is your read offset value (repeated samples will put a + in front of the value, missing samples will put a - in front of the value)

Sounds OK to me, anyone have any suggestions?

The color rating for the Sample Offset could be:

If drive can Overread I/O = Yellow
If Offset & Overread match = Yellow
If Sample Offset is <1000 = Blue
If Sample Offset is >1000 samples = Red

Suggestions welcome too


I didn't think it was necessary until we encountered a drive with non-matching features for different firmwares revisions.

PS: evereux's site is going to be pretty amazing, after it's finished I don't think we will need another DAE drive features DB. All drive features submitted to me will be imported into his DB & it might also contain The Coaster Factory entries too.

I think it would be better is there was an app to detect and submitt these features. Maybe spoon would be willing to write one to go with AccurateRip?

Why is the sample offset boundary of 1000 used to determine the difference between blue and red, red I assume would mean bad? What is it about 1000 that suddenly makes the drive bad? How about we don't make that assumption at all in the table?

Many of the items would be difficult to automatically detect:

Manufacturer: No problem
Type: No problem
Model: No problem
Accurate Stream: No problem
Caching: This one is hit and miss to detect,
C2 Error Info: The firmware could lie about it's implementation / implementation could be poor you would need a cd with intentional errors
Overread: You would need a specific audio cd with sound data (values not 0) right upto the lead in / out, some drives when trying to overread just return 0's, you wouldn't spot this unless you had a cd as mentioned.
Sample Offset: No problem
Firmware: Is this drive specific?

AccurateRip contained pretty much all the items that could be autodetected with any audio cd, it has the Sample Offset and Accurate Stream.

It's not my mistake, it's westgroveg's mistake


Yeah, that's what I'm talking all the time - if there will be scores there's no need for subjective limit where offset becomes too bad. For readibility & simplicity sake there also should be only 2 colours: green = good, red = bad, and both overread & offset columns should always have the same colour (green if they match and red if they don't match, so the Matching column can be removed). We can give more colours to scores but IMO it doesn't make sense either.

Just have a look over there:
(update also your posts at Digital-Inn and CD-Freaks!)

http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm
http://www.forum.eac-audio.de/index.php?sh...22offset-en.php
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets01.htm
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac7.html

Perhaps you can combine those or work together with "accuraterip".As they collect drives features automatically some manual verification would be excellent.

cheers.

All complete records from The Coaster Factory will be included in the DAE Drive Features Database evereux & I have been working on. I don't think there would be any easy way of importing the records from EAC-Audio.de & the other sources you have listed do not provide all the required fields.

First we want to get an initial version of the database up & running. After that we may explore better methods of detection & submission of DAE drive features to the database.

Manufacturer: Philips
Type: 36x (it's a CD-ROM)
Model: PCA362CD
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: NO
Overread: NONE
Sample Offset: +686
Firmware: T6PP

Manufacturer: _NEC
Type: (it's a CD-RW)
Model: NR-7900A
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread: LeadIn
Sample Offset: +685
Firmware: 1.23

That is the info for both my drives . The offsets were found using AccurateRip and is the value that is displayed in the offset field in EAC. I hope this information helps .

This AOpen drive is following to the test in a famous german computer magazine (c't) one with the most reliable read-capabilities and also fastest! Often my BTC fails on scratched CD´s, while this AOpen still gets accurate results at the same CD (with C2-Error-Info switched off).

Updates:
-Switched to Interlaced GIF
-Added positive signs for lead out offsets (hacky)
-Now showing firmware revision field


@ R.A.F.

Read the first post.

what happened to the chart? i could see it last time i checked (a couple days ago i think). now i just see "user posted image." im using winxp w/ firefox.

Yeah accidentally deleted it from the server. Fixed now & I also added the xls file for download (as I originally said I would) , if ever necessary the moderators can update the list & file too.

yeah, its working fine now. thanks

Some days ago, I submitted a new entry but i made a mistake. I tried to email to you twice, but I got no reply. Please fix the table with these settings:

Will be fixed ASAP we have just been busy lately.

For corrections it will be best to contact Paul at paul@daefeatures.co.uk for now.