Ok, I know SV7 and 7.5 cant be used with video, but if/when SV8 is released it certainly can be. DivX is still in the infancy of certifing its products and is currently using MP3. My hope is that we could get them interested in MPC (better audio quality, believed to have no current patents, ect...). Maybe they would be able to invest either some money (Pay Frank?) or have some of their employees help with the dev.

You can add your feedback here:
http://support.divx.com/cgi-bin/divx.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php

This would hopefully help MPC get inroads on multiple hardware devices

I am not sure if that won't break compatibility to previous hardware and software decoders, but I guess a firmware or software update will do the trick.

It would break compatibility with all the current certified hardware players. People that bought one of these players just because they would play DivX certified files would surround DivX Networks offices with pitchforks.

Remember they insist on using AVI as a container instead of MP4 or Matroska for precisely the same reason.

Also, several DivX rips (1-CD ones, particularly) use very low bitrates, where MPC is pretty much useless.



Faith won't get you far with your proposal... you'll need to do better than that to convince corporations to support MPC.


Edit: If any, I would expect DivX Networks to get interested in Vorbis (for being "more" patent-free than MPC and for being good at low bitrates) or even AAC (for being MPEG4 video's natural companion) before showing interest in MPC.

This is the most stupid MPC zealotry topic I have seen in 1 year of HA reading ...

if DivX teams don't want to upgrade to AAC+AVC then DivX deserves death ...
& I won't cry their death ...

Open your eyes, in the mpeg norm :

DivX+Fhg successors are Nero AVC+ Nero AAC in MP4 for closed source

in the same way

Xvid+Lame successors are x264+Faac in MP4 for open source ...

If you need to ask for support ask for AVC+AAC ... not R.I.P MPC ...

... DivX networks is turning more & more like Real ... mixing Mpeg compliant codecs with non Mpeg compliant codecs, in containers with extension that uses their names (.rm, .divx) in order to lock the multimedia newbies market to their own solution ... don't be fooled this is only commercial choices, & have nothing to do with being the state of the art of MPEG technology ...

DivX Networks has lost the leadership of commercial Mpeg video implementation since Nero 6 is out ... , R.I.P DivX

so far, mixing norms is abherant, see OGM or MKV ... because of hardware certification ... try understand codecs norms & you will see that there is not hundreds, there is 3

WM-: closed norm & patented
MPG: open norm & patented
OGG: open norm NOT patented

If I were you I would rather ask for x264+Faac in .mp4 or Theora+Vorbis in .ogg support in Gordian Knot ... that's the best thing you can do IMHO

it's kinda pathetic to see that Faac is almost as unpopular on HA as Theora is unpopular on Doom9, just because they are not "actually" at their best ... while both are so essentials of their respective norms ...

it's more than time we support Theora & Faac if we want to see one of the MPG-OGG norm kill the other ... or we will have to endure x264+Vorbis in MKV ... & that's the worst thing that can happen IMHO

I think Faac will become the Lame of AAC encoders, far outstripping
any commercial encoders. Do you think so?

Maybe some will make a patch for Faac and call it Faae (Faae is not An Aac Encoder)
Or F.A.M.E, heh.

schonenberg:

theorically it should ... but it is not as easy ... it has already been discussed many times, & open source is NOT the friendly brotherhood linked by high philosophical ideal I first thought it was ... Menno will not work for Xiph ... Gabriel will not work for Faac ... & Klemm will not work for neither Xiph or Faac ... each one his fame & followers, each one his dev pride (... teasing ) ... I finally accepted it ...

If only all audio developers were as wise as Tord ...
http://bladeenc.mp3.no/

Faac & Theora needs a signifiant boost in order to make either Ogg or MP4 very popular as a norm ... & I actually don't see anything coming to boost their development ...

I don't expect Faac to kill Lame before a looooonnng time ... that's why I use Vorbis ...

Yes I think AAC is the way to go for most lossy audio, video or otherwise. I was a diehard MPC fan until I got an MP3/AAC capabably phone and then I started to discover all the audio goodness of AAC; now a true convert.

I can't imagine that MPC will ever be considered, on any kind of real level, as a new format as audio streams for use in video application if only because of the lack of support, and considering that AAC and MP3 continue to gain massive ground in the public-who-don't-care-about-anything-but-useability-and-availabilitiy-and-compatibility arena.

Wasn't that name originally given to LAME because, at first, it actually wasn't a standards compliant mp3 encoder? AFAIK there are no plans to break FAAC compatability with standard AAC decoders and why the hell would they? . . . that would be the strangest move ever on the part of the FAAC development team.

The LAME name was given because it came in source form for legal reasons. So it wasn't an MP3 Encoder. It was just the sources to one, which you had to compile yourself to get one.

It was always MP3-compatible.

Yes, but the first release was not a stand-alone encoder, but was a patch to the ISO (or whatever) encoder.

On that same thought I don't think Vorbis will ever be anything
other than the geeks toy, and maybe save a few bucks for dap developers, being free to ship the encoder and link with the decoder.
Mpeg4 will logically replace mp3.

Since the faac program is bound to patents and/or restrictions like the iso encoder was,
I would think that some eighteen year old savant new to the audio community will come along and
start hacking faac.

I think MPC could become the Xvid of audio codecs.

I think this is possible with MP4MUXER muxer for MP4 container.

http://mp4muxer.movie2digital.com/

FAME is already used in Fast Assembly MPEG Encoding library.

The idea of mpc in any video container is a pipe dream at this time, we all know that. It would be nice to persuade the game ripper groups to use MPC, but I am sure they don't have the willingness to make the tools. In these days of broadband and direct ripping, compression schemes are less important. The world, and bandwidth have expanded to a point where the lowest common denominator is cost....which is what it always had been. It is not cost effective to implement MPC into DivX. It is a geek codec and will stay that way until it has a marketing team.

on a side note, I believe someone should make a container format for my thoughts....they seem to be all over the place. =)

Well, -q4.50 gives very good result while staying at about 128 kbps or even less (assuming long passages of near-silence in most of the movies), which is still suitable and even more preferrable than mp3 or vorbis.

By very low bitrates, I mean 96-80kbps and lower.

128kbps is, by all means, a medium bitrate.

Of course they would probably be playable only on your proprietary hardware, even if you were to release the source code.

That would be cool, but it would have to have flexible tagging and be indexable. I wouldn't mind being locked in to the hardware.

Ah, that bitrates were too obsolete for me to think about.

maybe im just a quality freak but if a movie is so long the ripper has to use a 80-96kbps audio track they really should use 2/3 disc and if there going to do that they will probably have room for a AC3 or DTS track without any loss of image quality.

You should see some of the 1-CD rips floating on the net. Bitrates as low as 56kbps

Some people simply don't care about crappy sound, as long as the video quality is reasonable.

Thankfully, I think, that's starting to change. There have been many rips which now include the original AC3 streams. People are starting to realise that the sound is as much, if not more, important, as the the picture quality. Of course, I remain offtopic as always.

My, my, you do your name honour.


But the MPEG-norm is not important, where did you get that idea? Look at DVD (and probably HD-DVD + BluRay).


And that is bad because?


Nothing commercial has to do with state-of-the-art, sometimes coincendental though.


Any proof of that? There are a lot more DivX devices than Nero devices right now. And Nero doesnt support AVC+AAC on their devices anyway.


OGM was wrong (not mentioning technical issues) because it broke an already existent standard and then the developer left it to die. Yet, hardware support for MKV might no be too far off. (http://www.z500series.com/specs.php)


You can remove Ogg from that, it is not a complete audio/video standard. If you've ever tried Theora you would understand that.


If i wanted to respect a norm and have quality like that i would use (S)VCD, at least im certain thats hardware compatible... "not actually at their best" is quite an understatement for Theora. FAAC i cant judge, don't have enough experience with it.


Why is that the worst thing? Why should anything be killed.

It was a nice rant, but not more than that.

O yeah, about MPC for DivX, won't happen. They have even adapted MP3 surround now.

... let's see if those guys are really better than all the other companies claiming upcoming matroska support in their next devices. What differentiates them already is clearly the fact that they are already ANNOUNCING it on their homepage ..... and none of the other companies has ever considered to do this before.



Yeah, i would also love to hear why this would be a bad thing to happen ....



DivX N are on a very dangerous road since some time now. They forgot their roots, they forgot where they were coming from, and they also forgot what circumstances made them what they are today. DivX, these days, was the coolest thing on this planet, thats why everybody was keen to compress his movies with the DivX codec. Today, h.264 + AAC in MP4 ( Nero Recode ) or h.264 + Vorbis in MKV are way cooler already, and an extended AVI container and MP3 surround won't give them back the lead in this respect ....

Christian
matroska project admin
http://www.matroska.org

Edit: I deleted my own answer, as I realized this morning that I posted bullshits yesterday late at night ... obviously it's not clear in my own mind ... must wait & see ... damn why is it so hard to choice betwen theora+vorbis, nero avc+aac & avc+vorbis ...
nero buying Faac & x264 is really disturbing ... I don't see clear between codecs anymore ... will stay away from forums for some days ...